The Gigantic all encompassing TRADE THREAD

[Rowand44]

Okay, name me teams with 3 aces(with realistic shots at the playoffs). I guess if you want to count the Cubs and that's pretty much it. Bullpens are what you need in the postseason and right now, ours isn't that strong at all. It's good, but not as good as everyone else's. We also don't have an as good 3B as the rest of the teams who have a chance at the playoffs. That's coming from someone who loves Crede.

The cubs 3 aces are who??

[nitetrain8601]

Who are we giving up for Guardado?  Doesn't Guardado's rotator cuff injury on his throwing arm concern you?

 

Hell yeah. It's just a matter of time of his arm completely falling off. Plus you have to give someone up to get him.

[nitetrain8601]

The cubs 3 aces are who??

 

Most people say Prior, Nut-Grabber and Mr. IR. So I gave him that one just in case he wanted to mention that team. I would say, even they don't have 3 aces.

[Wedge]

The cubs 3 aces are who??

 

I'd say Zambrano, Prior, and potentially Wood.

 

Maddux on a very, very good day.

[SoxFan1]

Who are we giving up for Guardado?  Doesn't Guardado's rotator cuff injury on his throwing arm concern you?

Uuuum, no. He is an All-Star. Everyday Eddie sounds good to Ozzie....reeeeeeal good.

[Wedge]

Uuuum, no. He is an All-Star. Everyday Eddie sounds good to Ozzie....reeeeeeal good.

 

Oh, OK. We should go get Giambi, too. He's an all-star.

[Rowand44]

Most people say Prior, Nut-Grabber and Mr. IR. So I gave him that one just in case he wanted to mention that team. I would say, even they don't have 3 aces.

Prior's an ace no doubt about that, Zambrano has more to prove last year he was fantastic this year he's been average and Wood isn't and never will be anywhere near an ace.

[nitetrain8601]

Uuuum, no. He is an All-Star. Everyday Eddie sounds good to Ozzie....reeeeeeal good.

 

He has a half-torn rotator cuff injury. That does not scare you?? I know that would scare KW off.

[nitetrain8601]

Prior's an ace no doubt about that, Zambrano has more to prove last year he was fantastic this year he's been average and Wood isn't and never will be anywhere near an ace.

 

Exactly, but I said it to help his argument. IMO, they don't even have 3 aces. But I'll give him time to come up with his list.

[Rowand44]

Exactly, but I said it to help his argument. IMO, they don't even have 3 aces. But I'll give him time to come up with his list.

I'll help him out, there is NO team in baseball with 3 aces at this point.

[Bubba Philips]

Its very simple.

 

Buehrle, Schmidt, Garland, Garcia, Contreras > Beuhrle, Garcia, Garland, Contreras, El Duque

still

AJ knows Schmidt I'm sure kw and him have spoken.. I like jAMIE moyer even if he just has this season and maybe next left I think he carries less baggage and has a good strikeout to walk ration, a 4.36 era would be lowered playing with a better defense . A move just might pump him up. He knows how to pitch. . He's stayed healthy he's a workhorse. I DON'T THINK HE'S A LONG TERM SOLUTION AND i DON'T KNOW ABOUT HIS CONTRACT.

[Rowand44]

still

AJ knows Schmidt  I'm sure kw and him have spoken.. I like jAMIE  moyer even if he just  has this season and maybe next left  I think he carries less baggage and  has a good strikeout to walk ration, a  4.36 era  would be lowered playing with a better defense . A move just might pump him up. He knows how to pitch. . He's stayed healthy he's a workhorse. I DON'T THINK HE'S A LONG TERM SOLUTION AND i DON'T KNOW ABOUT HIS CONTRACT.

Actually his era would most likely rise considering he'd go from one of the better pitchers park in the game to one of the better hitters park. Doesn't mean he wouldn't be effective but I'd be surprised if his era went down, jmo.

[SoxFan1]

Oh, OK.  We should go get Giambi, too.  He's an all-star.

Guardado is an All-Star THIS year, Giambi is not.

[VAfan]

There is no reason why they would not be willing to increase the payroll if we go to the playoffs. Each round we get through means more money for them. Plus the year after a great year is usually when you see the most money coming in. There should be no reason not to increase the payroll by at least 10 million if they make it far into the playoffs. Another big time starter such as Jason Schmidt to go along with Mark Buehrle and Freddy Garcia improves our chances of going further than just the 1st round. Money should really not be brought into this equation.

 

I'm not talking about money this year. I do think they will stretch the payroll a bit because attendance is up, and they can already envision at least a few postseason games.

 

I'm talking about next year, and I don't see an extra $10 million for payroll going to a 6th starter when we're already on the hook for something approaching $40 million for the first 5 guys. If someone will take Contreras and it is still a good deal, then I can see it. But I don't see us willing to eat any contracts next year. Not even El Duque's $4 million one.

[Guest JimH]

I'm not talking about money this year.  I do think they will stretch the payroll a bit because attendance is up, and they can already envision at least a few postseason games.

 

I'm talking about next year, and I don't see an extra $10 million for payroll going to a 6th starter when we're already on the hook for something approaching $40 million for the first 5 guys.  If someone will take Contreras and it is still a good deal, then I can see it.  But I don't see us willing to eat any contracts next year.  Not even El Duque's $4 million one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They aren't going to eat contracts as you say, but they will increase the payroll if this team goes to the playoffs. They want to build the team on pitching and it's expensive, so a lot of the payroll $$ will go there.

 

No need to worry about next year, that stuff will sort itself out.

[VAfan]

As I've argued above, I have a hard time seeing a move for Schmidt or AJ Burnett, or any starter that's going to cost $10 million next year unless we move Contreras or at least El Duque.

 

But if we are going to get Schmidt from the Giants - and if KW wants him, he'll get him - then I say we get Vizquel as well. Uribe is really the weakest link in our lineup, not Joe Crede, and his defense isn't better than Vizquel's.

 

Would the Giants take Contreras and Uribe if they also got BMac and Anderson, or BMac or Anderson and 2 other second-tier guys?

 

(Please, no Alfonzo.)

[beck72]

Okay, name me teams with 3 aces(with realistic shots at the playoffs). I guess if you want to count the Cubs and that's pretty much it. Bullpens are what you need in the postseason and right now, ours isn't that strong at all. It's good, but not as good as everyone else's. We also don't have an as good 3B as the rest of the teams who have a chance at the playoffs. That's coming from someone who loves Crede.

It's a matter of the sox gearing themselves to beat the other AL teams [LAA, Bos for sure so far]. Both have strong offenses [boston very tough, along with solid SP, weak pen but geared for a short series]. LAA has the solid SP and pen. The sox have very good SP, and having another SP in the pen for the playoffs makes it stronger right there.

 

The sox have seen what very good SP will do for a team. SP's who can go 7, 8 innings a pop nearly every start are hard to come by. IMO, if one of the Sox big 3 fall off [due to injury, whatever] the sox can kiss a long postseason good bye. Getting a reliever to get 1, 2 or 3 outs is far easier than finding someone who can get 21 and only give up 3 runs or less. [that's my story and i'm sticking to it ]

 

And the sox have in house options with Jenks and Baj [though I think a LHP like Scott Erye, Ron Villone or Ricardo Rincon could be possibilities to add]

 

If a stud is available, and the sox don't acquire one by the deadline, AND someone goes down, KW will 2nd guess himself for a lifetime.

Edited June 29, 2005 by beck72

[nitetrain8601]

It's a matter of the sox gearing themselves to beat the other AL teams [LAA, Bos for sure so far]. Both have strong offenses [boston very tough, along with solid SP, weak pen but geared for a short series]. LAA has the solid SP and pen. The sox have very good SP, and having another SP in the pen for the playoffs makes it stronger right there.

 

The sox have seen what very good SP will do for a team. SP's who can go 7, 8 innings a pop nearly every start are hard to come by. IMO, if one of the Sox big 3 fall off [due to injury, whatever] the sox can kiss a long postseason good bye. Getting a reliever to get 1, 2 or 3 outs is far easier than finding someone who can get 21 and only give up 3 runs or less. [that's my story and i'm sticking to it ]

 

And the sox have in house options with Jenks and Baj [though I think a LHP like Scott Erye, Ron Villone or Ricardo Rincon could be possibilities to add]

 

If a stud is available, and the sox don't acquire one by the deadline, AND someone goes down, KW will 2nd guess himself for a lifetime.

 

In other words, you couldn't find a team. White Sox have solid pitching and a decent pen. I'll admit that the Angels have a better one so that's why we need relievers and not starters. You don't know how a starter will react in a pen minus Contreras since he's been there. We don't know how good El Duque will do out of the pen since there is not a big enough sample size. We don't know how Schmidt will do out of the pen.

 

You said it yourself that we need a reliever that could get 3 outs and it's far easier to find one which means you don't have to mortgage your future and that you can get someone for cheaper than trading for a starter. You made my point for me.

[beck72]

In other words, you couldn't find a team. White Sox have solid pitching and a decent pen. I'll admit that the Angels have a better one so that's why we need relievers and not starters. You don't know how a starter will react in a pen minus Contreras since he's been there. We don't know how good El Duque will do out of the pen since there is not a big enough sample size. We don't know how Schmidt will do out of the pen.

 

You said it yourself that we need a reliever that could get 3 outs and it's far easier to find one which means you don't have to mortgage your future and that you can get someone for cheaper than trading for a starter. You made my point for me.

 

Like I said, no one can touch the sox top 3 guys. NOW. But things can change in the last 3 months of the season. I'm looking for the sox to build a team that [even with an injury] could take the W.S.

 

I said it's easier to find a reliever who can get 3 outs than a SP who can get 21. I didn't say its a priority. Getting one cheaper means the sox can add elsewhere [like a SP] Now you made the point for me

[ZoomSlowik]

Yeah, let's assume an injury is going to happen to someone out of three of the most durable starting pitchers in the league and overpay for a starting pitcher. That sounds smart.

[nitetrain8601]

Yeah, let's assume an injury is going to happen to someone out of three of the most durable starting pitchers in the league and overpay for a starting pitcher. That sounds smart.

 

 

My thoughts exactly. Let's worry about priorities before luxuries.

[VAfan]

I'm going to reply to myself to make clearer the trade I'm suggesting:

 

Sox get: Jason Schmidt (2006 option) and Omar Vizquel (through 2007).

 

Giants get: Jose Contreras (signed through 2006), Juan Uribe (through 2007), plus Brian Anderson and Brandon McCarthy, or

 

Contreras, Uribe, their choice of Anderson or McCarthy, plus Ross Gload and Joe Borchard.

 

Now this deal makes some sense for both sides. Giants still get a servicable starting pitcher, a cheap replacement for JT Snow (if they take option #2), a starting SS, and one of the Sox two best prospects.

 

For the Sox, it doesn't blow up their salary structure. The only problem is that it weakens their 5th starter position if El Duque can't finish the season. But I think that role is pretty insignificant if our front 4 is Buerhle, Garcia, Schmidt, and Garland. And it is not even certain that the Giants would take BMac in the deal.

 

 

(If we have to sweeten the deal, I'd be willing to surrender Bajenaru if they took Anderson instead of McCarthy.)

[Frankensteiner]

Schmidt's getting hit around by the D-Backs: 2.2 IP, 5 H, 3 ER

[ZoomSlowik]

Schmidt's getting hit around by the D-Backs: 2.2 IP, 5 H, 3 ER

 

Notice that his only two good starts since April came in extreme pitcher's parks.

[beck72]

Yeah, let's assume an injury is going to happen to someone out of three of the most durable starting pitchers in the league and overpay for a starting pitcher. That sounds smart.

I guess injuries can be planned, huh. Ineffectiveness as well.

 

My larger point is that there are over 3 months to play. Jon and MB's pitching has been fantastic. I'd love to see both keep up the career years they've been having. Odds are that at least one of the sox top 3 guys won't be able to keep up what they've been doing. If they can, so much the better. The sox wouldn't exactly waste a top tier SP who can hang with the best 3 SP's they've got now.

 

But you also plan for the worst [the 4th and 5th guys are spotty, with a season ending injury to the big 3 after July 31st--I forgot those never happen] Getting another SP who can easily be the #2 or #3 starter, wouldn't exactly be a luxury if such a scenario came to be.

 

and last time I checked the world series can't be won in June. But it can be lost in the last three months leading up to October, without the strongest possible SP.