The Gigantic all encompassing TRADE THREAD

[AirScott]

Notice that his only two good starts since April came in extreme pitcher's parks.

if KW trades for Schmidt, he's going to have to wait until July 31 to do it, so it's a sure thing he's healthy. he was getting K's in those two starts, not affected by the park.

[Frankensteiner]

I hope it's not too late to get back on the Barry Zito bandwagon.

[AirScott]

I hope it's not too late to get back on the Barry Zito bandwagon.

so far tonight: 2 IP, 2 H, 2 K, and he gave up a homerun to Ichiro.

[ZoomSlowik]

if KW trades for Schmidt, he's going to have to wait until July 31 to do it, so it's a sure thing he's healthy.  he was getting K's in those two starts, not affected by the park.

 

He only had 5 K's in the first one against our division rival, and there were 18 flyball outs in those two games. I didn't watch the games, but I gotta imagine at least one or two balls would have done more damage in the Cell. Also, knowing KW and his past dealings, if he were going to make this move he'd do it sooner rather than later.

Edited June 29, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[AirScott]

He only had 5 K's in the first one against our division rival, and there were 18 flyball outs in those two games. I didn't watch the games, but I gotta imagine at least one or two balls would have done more damage in the Cell.

the second one he had 10, the jury is definitely out on Schmidt for a while.

[ZoomSlowik]

I guess injuries can be planned, huh. Ineffectiveness as well. 

 

My larger point is that there are over 3 months to play. Jon and MB's pitching has been fantastic. I'd love to see both keep up the career years they've been having. Odds are that at least one of the sox top 3 guys won't be able to keep up what they've been doing. If they can, so much the better. The sox wouldn't exactly waste a top tier SP who can hang with the best 3 SP's they've got now.

 

But you also plan for the worst [the 4th and 5th guys are spotty, with a season ending injury to the big 3 after July 31st--I forgot those never happen] Getting another SP who can easily be the #2 or #3 starter, wouldn't exactly be a luxury if such a scenario came to be.

 

and last time I checked the world series can't be won in June. But it can be lost in the last three months leading up to October, without the strongest possible SP.

 

The point is that unless something bad happens getting another starting pitcher is a waste of talent and money. If you acquire someone like Schmidt, either Jon or Freddy or him will have their effectiveness drastically minimized in the playoffs, which is supposedly what the deal is meant to help us with. I especially don't like this idea when the guy has struggled for most of the year like Schmidt.

Edited June 29, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[GreatScott82]

Looks like Zito is pitching better than Schmidt tonite. As i said before Zito is getting hot as the season progresses. He has always been a 2nd half pitcher- just food for thought.

[AirScott]

The point is that unless something bad happens getting another starting pitcher is a waste of talent and money. If you acquire someone like Schmidt, either Jon or Freddy or him will have their effectiveness drastically minimized in the playoffs, which is supposedly what the deal is meant to help us with.

I don't see how. too many starting pitchers is a great problem to have come playoff time.

[Kalapse]

Looks like Zito is pitching better than Schmidt tonite. As i said before Zito is getting hot as the season progresses. He has always been a 2nd half pitcher- just food for thought.

Oakland is now 8-2 in their last 10 and only 7 games out of the WildCard. They're not going to trade Zito. They're going to try and make a run at the playoffs.

[ZoomSlowik]

Looks like Zito is pitching better than Schmidt tonite. As i said before Zito is getting hot as the season progresses. He has always been a 2nd half pitcher- just food for thought.

 

The problem with Zito is he is signed through next year too. We've already got 5 starters for next season, plus B-Mac and potentially some other prospects may be competing to try to sneak into the rotation. Then you'd have 6 major league starters plus the other guys.

[AirScott]

I really like seeing Atlanta starting to get hot, because the further out the Marlins get the more likely Burnett is to be traded. that seems like a KW move.

[AirScott]

The problem with Zito is he is signed through next year too. We've already got 5 starters for next season, plus B-Mac and potentially some other prospects may be competing to try to sneak into the rotation. Then you'd have 6 major league starters plus the other guys.

that would be a great problem to have. you can always trade the guys you don't need.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 01:22 AM)

In other words, you couldn't find a team. White Sox have solid pitching and a decent pen. I'll admit that the Angels have a better one so that's why we need relievers and not starters. You don't know how a starter will react in a pen minus Contreras since he's been there. We don't know how good El Duque will do out of the pen since there is not a big enough sample size. We don't know how Schmidt will do out of the pen.

 

You said it yourself that we need a reliever that could get 3 outs and it's far easier to find one which means you don't have to mortgage your future and that you can get someone for cheaper than trading for a starter. You made my point for me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What reliever is available that is better than we already have? Not one reliever that is available will make a difference to our march to the World Series like Schmidt would. We have Jenks available to call up at anytime. KW has already said that there is nothing available in terms of relievers that are better than what he has in house either in the majors or minors. I agree with him. It makes no sense to not want to give up these so called prospects who have not made one contribution to our team in order to get someone that can and most likely will make a major contribution. How can you be so sure about Garland being this good for an entire year? Count is so erratic he is aggravating to watch. El Duque has already pissed off KW and Ozzie. And stop comparing us to the Angels, Orioles, Red Sox, and Indians. Our offense is so much worse than any of those teams that we have to pitch lights out in order to win. As much as their offense is better than ours that is how much out pitching has to be better than theirs. That is why we need that other ace starter. Why are you so concerned about our farm system or spending the White Sox money? Let them worry about that.

[ZoomSlowik]

I really like seeing Atlanta starting to get hot, because the further out the Marlins get the more likely Burnett is to be traded.  that seems like a KW move.

 

I don't think so. He's already got one starter with injury issues, and Burnett is a free agent at the end of the year, and it is unlikely we'd sign him. I don't think Kenny would make a move for a rent a player (obviously this is also an issue with Schmidt, although I believe he has a rather sizeable option).

[ZoomSlowik]

that would be a great problem to have.  you can always trade the guys you don't need.

 

Not really, because the only guys we'd want to deal would be the Cubans, who have much less value than the rest of them. We'd be giving up talent and spending money in order to create a log jam.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 02:49 AM)

The point is that unless something bad happens getting another starting pitcher is a waste of talent and money. If you acquire someone like Schmidt, either Jon or Freddy or him will have their effectiveness drastically minimized in the playoffs, which is supposedly what the deal is meant to help us with. I especially don't like this idea when the guy has struggled for most of the year like Schmidt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The guy is coming back from an injury.

[ZoomSlowik]

The guy is coming back from an injury.

 

All the more reason to avoid him, especially since he was struggling in his 4 starts before he hit the DL too.

Edited June 29, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[Kalapse]

I don't think so. He's already got one starter with injury issues, and Burnett is a free agent at the end of the year, and it is unlikely we'd sign him. I don't think Kenny would make a move for a rent a player (obviously this is also an issue with Schmidt, although I believe he has a rather sizeable option).

'06 Schmidt has a $10 Mil option.

[ZoomSlowik]

'06 Schmidt has a $10 Mil option.

 

Team option or player option?

[WHarris1]

Team option or player option?

Team - 3 mil buyout

[Kalapse]

Team - 3 mil buyout

^^^

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 03:01 AM)

All the more reason to avoid him, especially since he was struggling in his 4 starts before he hit the DL too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So then what do you want the Sox to do? A reliever? Who is out there? There is no one that would make a difference. Just doesn't seem like your willing to take a chance on anything.

Edited June 29, 2005 by southsideirish

[Frank the Tank 35]

Guardado is an All-Star THIS year, Giambi is not. 

 

As I mentioned in another thread, a rotator cuff problem is nothing to snuff at. He may be the toughest guy there is, but a serious rotator cuff injury is not something you can get around. I myself injured my rotator a few months ago, and it was not pleasant. At first there was just minor pain/discomfort, then all of a sudden and really without warning I woke up in the middle of the night to stinging, sharp pain. I mean it could turn out that Guardado makes it through the entire year, but I wouldn't risk that.

 

Someone mentioned a few relief guys as possibilities which sound a lot more compelling and feasible. Ron Villone is a lefty we could use. Scott Eyre is pitching on the Giants, if KW is interested in Schmidt maybe he could increase the trade to include him as well. Salomon Torres of the Pirates may be an option. He's not pitching as well as last year but is still in the mid 3's for era. All 3 of them are making over a mil, which makes it more feasible that their respective teams might be taking offers for them to unload a little cash.

 

In any event, my vote is to trade for a starter, demote Viz, bring up a rookie reliever/demote Duque to the pen. If we can acquire a 3b, hell I'm tired of Crede's popups, go for it. If there were only a way to have someone else play 3b for the first 6 or 7 innings, then put Crede in the 8th (the only time it seems he hits) for a clutch homer...

[GreatScott82]

Heres is what I expect to happen before the trade deadline:

KW picks up another start- Schmidt, Zito or Burnett.

1. McCarthy gets sent back down to triple-a for some seasoning. (unless he is part of the deal to aqcuire a starter)

2. El-duque comes back from the DL and goes to the bulpen.

 

A trade like this kills 2 birds with 1 stone. We add a solid arm to our already strong pen and gain an outstanding starter. Makes sense- go for it KW!!

[ZoomSlowik]

So then what do you want the Sox to do? A reliever? Who is out there? There is no one that would make a difference. Just doesn't seem like your willing to take a chance on anything.

 

Why do we have to do anything? We have the best record in baseball, don't we? Why must we always make changes; why must we change something that isn't broken? If I were going to make changes to the team, I'd try to add another solid right handed reliever, try to find a left-handed backup for Paulie (or wait for Gload to come back, if that ever happens), and find a dependable backup shortstop. None of those options should cost that much, and they would solidfy the team without making massive changes. I'd also like to get Chavez, but I know that is a pipedream.