The Gigantic all encompassing TRADE THREAD

[Dick Allen]

Granted, he's hurt, but Gload's numbers from last year project better than Snow's and he's the same kind of hitter.  Plus, I'm not saying he's the key to the deal.  If swapping Sweeney instead of Anderson, or Bajenaru instead of Takatsu/Vizcaino would make the deal, fine.

 

Remember, these are add ons to Contreras/Uribe who are both major league players. 

 

I just see no deal for Schmidt or AJ Burnett or any other starter working unless the other team will take Contreras as part of it.  We aren't going to have $45 million of a $70 million payroll tied up in 6 starters next year.

 

Schmidt has a buyout. Starting pitchers can be traded. The idea is going for a world championship, not just hoping to make the playoffs and hoping to win a series or two. If the Sox acquired Schmidt for minor leaguers, I guarantee you ESPN would have a different attitude about them. And if they did win the WS, the payroll next year would swell to a lot more than $80 million.

[Balta1701]

Schmidt has a buyout. Starting pitchers can be traded. The idea is going for a world championship, not just hoping to make the playoffs and hoping to win a series or two.  If the Sox acquired Schmidt for minor leaguers, I guarantee you ESPN would have a different attitude about them.  And if they did win the WS, the payroll next year would swell to a lot more than $80 million.

Did ESPN suddenly have a different attitude last year when we acquired Garcia, who was the #1 pitcher on the trading block until we grabbed him?

[Jabroni]

Did ESPN suddenly have a different attitude last year when we acquired Garcia, who was the #1 pitcher on the trading block until we grabbed him?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Peter Gammons did but he always flip-flops like that.

[sircaffey]

Did ESPN suddenly have a different attitude last year when we acquired Garcia, who was the #1 pitcher on the trading block until we grabbed him?

 

We didn't have the best record in MLB...

[Milkman delivers]

Did ESPN suddenly have a different attitude last year when we acquired Garcia, who was the #1 pitcher on the trading block until we grabbed him?

 

Yes, Peter Gammons said we'd win the WS.

[Bubba Philips]

Yes, Peter Gammons said we'd win the WS.

Much of this talk hinges on the performance of a Ross Gload and Brandon McCarthy. I'm guessing it will be particularlly important if McCarthy has a good start against the TIgers today and if he does we might keep him for ourselves. Gload if he comes back an resumes last year's performance. Scouts and gms aren't stupid they'll likely wait a few days to see who's hot and who's not they have to way the downside and upside of all players involved. If wishing were good enough we could trade Viscaino for Schmidt even up. As far as Gammons it surprises me that he ever said anything good about the sox.

[Milkman delivers]

Much of this talk hinges on the performance of a Ross Gload and Brandon McCarthy.  I'm guessing it will be particularlly important if McCarthy has a good start against the TIgers today and  if he does we might keep him for ourselves.  Gload if he comes back an resumes last year's performance. Scouts and gms aren't stupid  they'll likely wait a few days to see who's hot and who's not they have to way the downside and upside of all players involved.  If wishing were good enough we could trade Viscaino for Schmidt even up.    As far as Gammons it surprises me that he ever said anything good about the White

sox.

[southsideirish71]

 

 

Boston Gammons flips and flops all year long.

 

Last night he proclaimed that the Angels are the best team in the AL. This was because their pitching and defense is the best in baseball. Give him two weeks and he will proclaim someone else the best.

[CWSGuy406]

A .276 OBP (and .657 OPS) is what is wrong with Juan Uribe.  That puts him down there with Christian Guzman.  Uribe has had one good hitting year in his career, last year.  Every other year his OBP is below .300, even when he was in Colorado.  He is worse than Joe Crede, frankly.

 

As I argued above, if we trade for Schmidt, then we should also swap Uribe for Omar Vizquel, who gets on at a .357 clip, has more speed, is a switch hitter, and whose defense is as good as Uribe's.  Plus Omar has playoff and World Series experience.  He's a better #2 hitter when Iguchi is rested, and a better #1 when Pods is rested.  Otherwise, he would look very good at the bottom of the lineup starting or continuing rallies. 

 

Fair enough on the OBP, but I doubt Uribe ends the year so low. I'd bet his OPS would end up above .700, too -- but he hasn't been very good at the plate. That said, I don't expect Uribe to get on base. I expect him to make up for that with a better-than-average SLG%, which he hasn't done this year either -- but I expect it in the second half.

 

One more thing. In talking about what someone said earlier, I think adding another bat is more important than another arm. And, to get Aubrey Huff, I'd start the package with Josh Fields. Obviously, there'd have to be more than just him, but I'd certainly be willing to sacrafice last year's first-round pick to get Huff...

 

And Uribe is not = Vizquel defensively. Uribe is much, much better than Vizquel defensively. Uribe has a better arm and more range...

Edited June 29, 2005 by CWSGuy406

[Balta1701]

And Uribe is not = Vizquel defensively.  Uribe is much, much better than Vizquel defensively.  Uribe has a better arm and more range...

Vizquel has committed 3 errors this year, Uribe has committed 8. Uribe has a lower "range factor" than Vizquel. Vizquel has both more attempts and more putouts. They have roughly an equal number of double plays turned. The stats don't show Uribe being a better SS.

 

I think he can become one the longer he stays at short, but he's certainly not better than Vizquel, not yet.

[CWSGuy406]

Vizquel has committed 3 errors this year, Uribe has committed 8.  Uribe has a lower "range factor" than Vizquel.  Vizquel has both more attempts and more putouts.  They have roughly an equal number of double plays turned.  The stats don't show Uribe being a better SS.

 

I think he can become one the longer he stays at short, but he's certainly not better than Vizquel, not yet.

 

I don't think that RF is really used well unless it's over a season. Was Vizquel really better (RF) in past years, too?

 

That said, I haven't looked at the stats. I've watched a lot of Giants games on TV and Vizquel doesn't show much range, but that's just from watching, no statistical backup.

 

EDIT: I've never gotten the total concept of 'Win Shares', but per THT, Juan Uribe has 3.7 Defensive Win Shares to Vizquel's 1.3.

 

LOL -- Timo Perez has a negative half of a Win Share at the plate this year.

Edited June 29, 2005 by CWSGuy406

[Balta1701]

I don't think that RF is really used well unless it's over a season.  Was Vizquel really better (RF) in past years, too?

 

That said, I haven't looked at the stats.  I've watched a lot of Giants games on TV and Vizquel doesn't show much range, but that's just from watching, no statistical backup.

Uribe's number was better in 2003, and they were basically the same at SS last year.

[Kyyle23]

Would Vizquel perform better if put onto a potential playoff contender? Sometimes all it takes is a kick in the ass in the form of a trade to a contender and players perform well beyond expectations.

 

Although Vizquels age and contract are definitely something to take into serious consideration.

[daa84]

I don't think that RF is really used well unless it's over a season.  Was Vizquel really better (RF) in past years, too?

 

That said, I haven't looked at the stats.  I've watched a lot of Giants games on TV and Vizquel doesn't show much range, but that's just from watching, no statistical backup.

 

EDIT:  I've never gotten the total concept of 'Win Shares', but per THT, Juan Uribe has 3.7 Defensive Win Shares to Vizquel's 1.3.

 

LOL -- Timo Perez has a negative half of a Win Share at the plate this year. 

i agree with you about RF. in my mind its an awful stat and it reflects more about the teams pitching. people want to simply look at RF by itself, but it is like a pitchers record, its a stat that is dependant upon so many other things beyond the fielders control. if looked at at all, it must be looked at with zone rating, which is truly a much greater stat that reveals far more about the fielders range....id be willing to bet that uribe has a better ZR than vizquel. btw...baseball prospectus predicted uribe will have the highest defensive effeciency rating(ie defensive win shares basically) than any other shortstop this year.

 

on a related note, jose valentin actually had the best ZR for two years in a row among shorstops proving him more effective defensively than just about everyone thought.

[3E8]

Uribe's number was better in 2003, and they were basically the same at SS last year.

Not quite.

 

Uribe '02 RF at SS = 5.24

Vizquel '02 RF at SS = 4.67

 

Uribe '03 RF at SS = 5.79

Vizquel '03 RF at SS = 5.19

 

Uribe '04 RF at SS = 5.29

Vizquel '04 RF at SS = 4.31

 

I think a young Uribe is a better defensive player than an old Vizquel.

[SoxFan1]

Did ESPN suddenly have a different attitude last year when we acquired Garcia, who was the #1 pitcher on the trading block until we grabbed him?

True but Schmidt > Garcia and 05 Sox > 04 Sox.

[Balta1701]

I think a young Uribe is a better defensive player than an old Vizquel.

You're right, I believe I was reading the numbers wrong.

 

I'm still not too thrilled with the # of errors Uribe has made.

[3E8]

You're right, I believe I was reading the numbers wrong.

 

I'm still not too thrilled with the # of errors Uribe has made.

Maybe the groin and back injuries played some part in the poor defense? Hard to say.

[SoxFan1]

Maybe the groin and back injuries played some part in the poor defense?  Hard to say.

Seems like it. That blooper from Polanco in the 1st inning last night showed he was still a little tight. He couldn't really explode to get the ball. But, he still got a 3B so I'm happy!

[VAfan]

The only thing that I'd argue with you here is trading Contreras.  First off, that'll still leave us with a hole at the 5 spot (unless you think we can count on El Duque being healthy and McCarthy being ready).  Also, why would the Giants want to take on Contreras's huge contract?

 

For some reason, I think if we were to pull off a trade for Schmidt, Damaso Marte would be included somewhere in there.

 

I'm not really worried about the division race. El Duque/Bmac can hold that down. I'm thinking postseason with Schmidt instead of Contreras. Plus I see Vizquel's bat and speed being helpful in a tight game.

[upnorthsox]

Not quite.

 

Uribe '02 RF at SS = 5.24

Vizquel '02 RF at SS = 4.67

 

Uribe '03 RF at SS = 5.79

Vizquel '03 RF at SS = 5.19

 

Uribe '04 RF at SS = 5.29

Vizquel '04 RF at SS = 4.31

 

I think a young Uribe is a better defensive player than an old Vizquel.

 

And a young Crede is better at 3rd than an Alfonso at any age.

 

The difference is in the $$$$ where a Vizquel will only cost us $1.5 mil more than Uribe next yr while Alfonso will cost us $7 mil more than Crede. That's the difference between keeping a Konerko or Thomas or losing both.

Edited June 29, 2005 by upnorthsox

[WHarris1]

True but Schmidt > Garcia

What makes you think that Schmidt will succeed for us?

[ZoomSlowik]

I'm gonna be upset if we get Schmidt (unless the deal centers around Contreras and McCarthy or Anderson, that'd be pretty cool). The guy has allowed 42 walks and 86 hits in 82 1/3. He's simply not the same guy. He was highly mediocre last night, he could have been hit a lot harder. He allowed 9 hits and 3 walks. If Kenny is absolutely set on getting a starter, I'd much rather try to get Burnett. The guy has 13 quality starts already and has pitched much better. However, I'd still much rather see us improve in other areas, like finding another guy that can hit, or another arm in the pen so we can use more than 4 guys. Also if we get Schmidt, I sincerely hope that he doesn't start over one of our current big 3 unless he returns to being his old self or one of our guys falls apart.

Edited June 29, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[Tadahito15]

Several newspapers are reporting that the Orioles were contacted by the Marlins, who offered pitcher A.J. Burnett to Baltimore, but the O's are more interested in Giants right-hander Jason Schmidt, says the Washington Post.

 

The Red Sox have joined in the bidding for Marlins starting pitcher A.J. Burnett, says the Washington Post.

Here are a few blurbs from Rotoworld. Nothing too new. Just felt like posting them.

[Milkman delivers]

I'm gonna be upset if we get Schmidt (unless the deal centers around Contreras and McCarthy or Anderson, that'd be pretty cool). The guy has allowed 42 walks and 86 hits in 82 1/3. He's simply not the same guy. He was highly mediocre last night, he could have been hit a lot harder. He allowed 9 hits and 3 walks. If Kenny is absolutely set on getting a starter, I'd much rather try to get Burnett. The guy has 13 quality starts already and has pitched much better. However, I'd still much rather see us improve in other areas, like finding another guy that can hit, or another arm in the pen so we can use more than 4 guys.

 

I never thought I'd hear somebody say they'd be upset to get Jason Schmidt.

 

On another note, it's not so easy to just get Burnett. We might not have the parts to swing that deal.