The Gigantic all encompassing TRADE THREAD

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 08:14 PM)

You mean Felipe Alou.

 

Dusty left after the 2002 season  Schmidt then put up sick numbers(17-5, 2.34 ERA, 0.95 WHIP, .200 BAA, K/9 of 9, K/BB of >4 in 03; 18-7, 3.20 ERA, 1.08 WHIP, .202 BAA, K/9 of 10, K/BB of >3 in 04) with Alou at the helm and Dusty wearing that cheesy ass blue.

 

My only fear about Schmidt is that he reminds me a lot of Freddy Garcia.  Not saying Freddy Garcia is bad, because he's not...but Schmidt is pitching in like the 3rd best pitcher's park in the majors, similar to Garcia in Safeco, and he's going to Coors Field east(and, not that it is the exact same, but it is somewhat comparable - his ERA at Coors over his career is 5.12...given, that is including his s*** days in Pittsburgh, but the point remains).

 

Is that worth BMac and one of our OF prospects?

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Your looking too much into it. The answer to your question is simply, YES!!!!

[Kalapse]

Is their any reports back in Chicago about Schmidt coming to the Sox

None at all.

[Kyyle23]

Look at Houston. They made a damn good run with Rocket and Oswalt and Backe who is far from an ace. St. Louis had a worse off pitching staff than that.

 

You are looking at two teams whose offenses were considerably better than the White Sox is. Those teams could get away with having less in the pitching department because the teams could mash with the best of them. But look what happened to St Louis when they met a team that was just as good hitting, but had better pitching? The Red Sox mowed them down like noones business because they had pitching.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 08:17 PM)

Exact point I've been trying to make all day. You're basically mortgaging a future for 2 starts max in the playoffs. Beck72, you don't consider Buehrle an ace?? I certainly do. El Duque is just needed for 2 starts against the Twins really and Contreras just needs to finish the season.

 

I'm not willing to spend tons of money and future for us to have to bench one of our aces for the most part in the playoffs. Look at Houston. They made a damn good run with Rocket and Oswalt and Backe who is far from an ace. St. Louis had a worse off pitching staff than that.

 

Burnett as much as I'd love to have him and Schmidt just aren't needed or even close to being a priority. I'd say bullpen(lights out closer because I think Hermy is coming back to earth) and hitting(3rd base in particular) are much more needed than another ace.

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Who says we won't get a 3rd baseman and a SP in this deal? I have heard rumors of where that will be the case. Our closer may be coming up from the minors in the form of Bobby Jenks. KW says he likes what he sees in our organization better when compared to what is available via trade when talking about relief pitching and I would have to agree with him. We can have all of what you are looking for. How do you like them apples?

[Rowand44]

You are looking at two teams whose offenses were considerably better than the White Sox is. Those teams could get away with having less in the pitching department because the teams could mash with the best of them. But look what happened to St Louis when they met a team that was just as good hitting, but had better pitching?  The Red Sox mowed them down like noones business because they had pitching.

Houston also had 0 bullpen outside of Lidge, they couldn't get him the ball.

[Balta1701]

You are looking at two teams whose offenses were considerably better than the White Sox is. Those teams could get away with having less in the pitching department because the teams could mash with the best of them. But look what happened to St Louis when they met a team that was just as good hitting, but had better pitching?  The Red Sox mowed them down like noones business because they had pitching.

Last year, Houston was 14th in terms of total runs scored in the MLB. We are currently sitting ninth this year.

[Kyyle23]

Last year, Houston was 14th in terms of total runs scored in the MLB.  We are currently sitting ninth this year.

 

Where were they before they added Beltran and went on that amazing run? I am sure they were towards the bottom of the league before Beltran showed up, they were dead in the water shortly before the break.

[witesoxfan]

Your looking too much into it. The answer to your question is simply, YES!!!!

 

If he is throwing around 94-95, I'm for it, probably. I like BMac a lot...but his stuff may not be good enough to be dominant like he was all of last year in the minors as an MLB starter, making him not untouchable enough(if that were to make sense)...this trade makes me leery.

 

We'll all have to wait another 20-25 days anyways to see what exactly will happen with the situation

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 08:26 PM)

Last year, Houston was 14th in terms of total runs scored in the MLB.  We are currently sitting ninth this year.

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I think you look too much at statistics, but how good of an offense were they after they acquired Carlos Beltran and went on their run? I believe they were very good.

[ZoomSlowik]

This is starting to strike me as very similar to the whole Randy Johnson thing last year. We're dreaming about adding a starting pitcher that is going to cost us a ton and probably wouldn't be back the next year. None of the teams we are going to face in the playoffs have stellar staffs, so I'm not worried about how our 4th starter is going to match up against some scrub. I'd rather not give up our top two prospects and play a bunch of money for a guy that probably isn't going to help out that much. They playoffs are such a small sample size that all Schmidt has to do is get roughed up slightly (like 4 runs in 6 innings) and the whole thing backfires. Is Schmidt's probability of providing a quality start really any higher than our current guys? Judging by their performance to this point, I'd say no. Even with his recent good starts, his ERA is 4.85. Even Contreras is at 4.15. Schmidt has had two good starts recently to drop his ERA while Jose has had two bad ones to jack it up, not to mention that he's doing it in the NL in a division with three really good pitcher's parks, including his home park. Yes, Schmidt has a better history than Jose. But we'd have to give up a bunch to see if Schmidt can turn it around, while we have Jose for nothing.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 08:34 PM)

This is starting to strike me as very similar to the whole Randy Johnson thing last year. We're dreaming about adding a starting pitcher that is going to cost us a ton and probably wouldn't be back the next year. None of the teams we are going to face in the playoffs have stellar staffs, so I'm not worried about how our 4th starter is going to match up against some scrub. I'd rather not give up our top two prospects and play a bunch of money for a guy that probably isn't going to help out that much. They playoffs are such a small sample size that all Schmidt has to do is get roughed up slightly (like 4 runs in 6 innings) and the whole thing backfires. Is Schmidt's probability of providing a quality start really any higher than our current guys? Judging by their performance to this point, I'd say no. Even with his recent good starts, his ERA is 4.85. Even Contreras is at 4.15. Schmidt has had two good starts recently to drop his ERA while Jose has had two bad ones to jack it up, not to mention that he's doing it in the NL in a division with three really good pitcher's parks, including his home park. Yes, Schmidt has a better history than Jose. But we'd have to give up a bunch to see if Schmidt can turn it around, while we have Jose for nothing.

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What are you talking about? LAA has a very good staff, Bartolo Colon, Paul Byrd, John Lackey, Jarrod Washburn...Minnesota, and Cleveland also have very good staffs. Boston has Clement, Schilling, Miller, Wells, and Arroyo. I would say all but Minnesota has a better hitting lineup than ours. All of those teams are possibilities to meet us in the playoffs.

Edited June 28, 2005 by southsideirish

[nitetrain8601]

What are you talking about? LAA has a very good staff, Bartolo Colon, Paul Byrd, John Lackey... Minnesota, and Cleveland also have very good staffs. Boston has Clement and Schilling. I would say all but Minnesota has a better hitting lineup than ours. All of those teams are possibilities to meet us in the playoffs.

 

LAA is the only team with a better 4th starter than us. Minny doesn't have a good 4th starter. I believe that's Kyle Lohse or Joe Mays right now. They aren't better than Count and remember, Count dominates bad hitting clubs usually. Minny is a bad hitting club. Boston had Clement and Schilling, but Miller or Wakefield as their 4th. Miller isn't back to his form pre injury. And Minny does not have a better hitting club than us.

[sircaffey]

LAA is the only team with a better 4th starter than us. Minny doesn't have a good 4th starter. I believe that's Kyle Lohse or Joe Mays right now. They aren't better than Count and remember, Count dominates bad hitting clubs usually. Minny is a bad hitting club. Boston had Clement and Schilling, but Miller or Wakefield as their 4th. Miller isn't back to his form pre injury. And Minny does not have a better hitting club than us.

 

And none of those teams will add a pitcher? If the Sox don't snag AJ or Schmidt someone will, and it won't be a non-contendor.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 08:47 PM)

LAA is the only team with a better 4th starter than us. Minny doesn't have a good 4th starter. I believe that's Kyle Lohse or Joe Mays right now. They aren't better than Count and remember, Count dominates bad hitting clubs usually. Minny is a bad hitting club. Boston had Clement and Schilling, but Miller or Wakefield as their 4th. Miller isn't back to his form pre injury. And Minny does not have a better hitting club than us.

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Why even compare us to Boston. They have the best hitting lineup in the majors. There is not one easy out in the entire lineup. In order for us to beat them our pitching has to be head and shoulders abover theirs, not just a little bit better. At this time I would consider the Count just a little bit better than Miller or Wakefield. They also have David Wells and Bronson Arroyo. Either one of those guys could be as good or better than the Count. Boston can flat out hit. We are built around pitching, so we can't afford a bad game from the Count. Boston can afford one of thier pitchers to get lit up because they can score tons of runs.

[Kyyle23]

LAA is the only team with a better 4th starter than us. Minny doesn't have a good 4th starter. I believe that's Kyle Lohse or Joe Mays right now. They aren't better than Count and remember, Count dominates bad hitting clubs usually. Minny is a bad hitting club. Boston had Clement and Schilling, but Miller or Wakefield as their 4th. Miller isn't back to his form pre injury. And Minny does not have a better hitting club than us.

 

Minnesota is also trying to add sox-killa-extraordinaire Randa also. This will make them a better hitting club IMHO, and it certainly wont hurt their defense.

[witesoxfan]

LAA is the only team with a better 4th starter than us. Minny doesn't have a good 4th starter. I believe that's Kyle Lohse or Joe Mays right now. They aren't better than Count and remember, Count dominates bad hitting clubs usually. Minny is a bad hitting club. Boston had Clement and Schilling, but Miller or Wakefield as their 4th. Miller isn't back to his form pre injury. And Minny does not have a better hitting club than us.

 

I don't like Anaheim's staff...never have. Colon is hittable, Byrd is not someone who really scares me, Washburn is fairly mediocre, and Lackey is someone I have never really liked(though he is pitching pretty solidly this year). They are good 1-5, and really, everyone in their rotation could be in or out of the playoff rotation without any big deal, and that's not a compliment come playoff time.

 

Boston's staff has proven to be very shaky up and down all year...they are banking a lot on Schilling coming back and pitching well, and that is not a guarantee at all.

 

Minnesota scares me, due to the streakiness of their staff...they get hot, and they are damn near unbeatable, but when they are off, they are a .500 team or worse. They also probably have the best bullpen in the majors, or at the very least, top 3.

 

Cleveland is similar to Anaheim, except that the same depth is not there up and down. Elarton won't be starting in the playoffs any time soon for them.

[SoxFan1]

A report here in SF on the flagship station is that Ned Colletti will be in Detroit the next few days to watch the Whitesox play..

Dont know if that means Schmidt is coming to the Sox

I'm wondering why? Maybe he'll talk to KW privately? But probably not. My guess, their looking at Carl and Marte.

[Kalapse]

I'm wondering why? Maybe he'll talk to KW privately? But probably not. My guess, their looking at Carl and Marte.

BMAC is starting on Wednesday.

[SoxFan1]

BMAC is starting on Wednesday.

Dur. Forgot about that. Welcome to the Sox Jason!

[GreatScott82]

I really hope BMAC wins on wednesday. If he starts showing signs of his potential it can do 2 things:

1. Increase his trade value.

2. Solidify his spot in the rotation for years to come.

 

I can possibly see Beane making a move for BMAC and KW has always talked highly of Barry Zito. I can see a Zito for McCarthy and another prospect at the trade deadline. The A's have a club option for Zito for the 2006 season and with the looks of things- Beane wants to go in a different direction. Beane has been focusing on solidifying a new young nucleus of starting pitchers and adding BMaC would improve there young nucleus. My prediction: Barry Zito- the newest member of our Chicago White Sox come July 31st! Write that down.

[SoxFan1]

I really hope BMAC wins on wednesday. If he starts showing signs of his potential it can do 2 things:

1. Increase his trade value.

2. Solidify his spot in the rotation for years to come.

 

I can possibly see Beane making a move for BMAC and KW has always talked highly of Barry Zito. I can see a Zito for McCarthy and another prospect at the trade deadline. The A's have a club option for Zito for the 2006 season and with the looks of things- Beane wants to go in a different direction. Beane has been focusing on solidifying a new young nucleus of starting pitchers and adding BMaC would improve there young nucleus. My prediction: Barry Zito- the newest member of our Chicago White Sox come July 31st! Write that down.

Oh please no. Hanging curveballs in the Cell = HighER ERA

[Soxbadger]

Beane has said there is no way he is trading Zito, whether it is smoke or not, but that does not suggest hes going a different way.

 

As for the Giants, why do they want Everett?

 

They already have enough old players in the outfield, what will Everett do for them?

 

After the disaster trade with the Cubs, they probably want pitching prospects. If we take all of Schmidt's salary, we may be able to get him with a few middle to high prospects.

 

If we want them to take on salary, we will probably have to give up top tier talent.

 

SB

[GreatScott82]

Oh please no. Hanging curveballs in the Cell = HighER ERA

He started off the season slow, but if you look at his #s from May on he has been pretty solid and is progressively getting better. I think this will be a great move.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 09:46 PM)

He started off the season slow, but if you look at his #s from May on he has been pretty solid and is progressively getting better. I think this will be a great move.

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He also pitches in the greatest pitchers park in the American League. If he has bad numbers there then I would hate to see what he does at the Cell. I will pass on Zito.

[SoxFan1]

He also pitches in the greatest pitchers park in the American League. If he has bad numbers there then I would hate to see what he does at the Cell. I will pass on Zito.

Exactly. He already has a pretty high ERA. How much would it influx with the Cell as his home.