The Gigantic all encompassing TRADE THREAD

[Jabroni]

Heres is what I expect to happen before the trade deadline:

KW picks up another start- Schmidt, Zito or Burnett.

1. McCarthy gets sent back down to triple-a for some seasoning. (unless he is part of the deal to aqcuire a starter)

2. El-duque comes back from the DL and goes to the bulpen.

 

A trade like this kills 2 birds with 1 stone. We add a solid arm to our already strong pen and gain an outstanding starter. Makes sense- go for it KW!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. El Duque in the bullpen would keep him healthy in case we ever need him to start. Since Cotts has been moved to being more of a late-innings reliever for us, El Duque could take over Cotts' old role of long reliever. Then just trade or dump Vizcaino and we have a really solid bullpen.

[ZoomSlowik]

Heres is what I expect to happen before the trade deadline:

KW picks up another start- Schmidt, Zito or Burnett.

1. McCarthy gets sent back down to triple-a for some seasoning. (unless he is part of the deal to aqcuire a starter)

2. El-duque comes back from the DL and goes to the bulpen.

 

A trade like this kills 2 birds with 1 stone. We add a solid arm to our already strong pen and gain an outstanding starter. Makes sense- go for it KW!!

 

Since when is El Duque a solid bullpen arm? He doesn't exactly have loads of experience in that area, and who knows if he could pitch every day. Also, right now I wouldn't really call any of those starters outstanding (Burnett is somewhat close, Schmidt was before his injury but has struggled a bunch this year, and Zito has been iffy for a while now despite pitching fairly well now). And does every potential trade target have to play in a pitcher's park?

Edited June 29, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[Jabroni]

Since when is El Duque a solid bullpen arm? He doesn't exactly have loads of experience in that area, and who knows if he could pitch every day. Also, right now I would really call any of those starters outstanding (Burnett is somewhat close, Schmidt was before his injury but has struggled a bunch this year, and Zito has been iffy for a while now despite pitching fairly well now). And does every potential trade target have to play in a pitcher's park?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He could replace Cotts as our long reliever and also spot start if needed. Would he be better out of the bullpen than Vizcaino? I think so.

Edited June 29, 2005 by Jabroni

[Frank the Tank 35]

Yeah, addendum to my vote. 1a is to get Chavez as that would really be building for a playoff team. But as for me realistic vote, go for the starter.

[ZoomSlowik]

He could replace Cotts as our long reliever and also spot start if needed.  Would he be better out of the bullpen than Vizcaino?  I think so.

 

That's not exactly saying much. Then we'd have a $4 mil long relief guy with little bullpen experience.

[qwerty]

That's not exactly saying much. Then we'd have a $4 mil long relief guy with little bullpen experience.

 

... and a guy in the bullpen who thinks putting men on base is his job.

[Jabroni]

That's not exactly saying much. Then we'd have a $4 mil long relief guy with little bullpen experience.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It wouldn't be that bad if we could find a way to dump Vizcaino's $1.3 million salary and Timo's $1 million salary but that would be hard to do.

[Kalapse]

Heres is what I expect to happen before the trade deadline:

KW picks up another start- Schmidt, Zito or Burnett.

1. McCarthy gets sent back down to triple-a for some seasoning. (unless he is part of the deal to aqcuire a starter)

2. El-duque comes back from the DL and goes to the bulpen.

 

A trade like this kills 2 birds with 1 stone. We add a solid arm to our already strong pen and gain an outstanding starter. Makes sense- go for it KW!!

If you're going to trade for one of those pitchers, most likely BMac would be a main part of any package you send to one of those teams so your #1 isn't even possible.

[Jabroni]

... and a guy in the bullpen who thinks putting men on base is his job.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So do you want to see him start instead? Either way, we are likely stuck with him.

[qwerty]

So do you want to see him start instead? Either way, we are likely stuck with him.

 

I don't want him period but what can you do.

[Jabroni]

I don't want him period but what can you do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nothing, which is why I'd rather see him as our long reliever than a starter in our rotation. If McCarthy gets rocked tomorrow night, I think Kenny will be making a deal for a starter.

Edited June 29, 2005 by Jabroni

[Milkman delivers]

I don't want him period but what can you do.

 

You can kill him. I'm not saying you should, but I'm just sayin'...

[BigSqwert]

Why not go for Kenny Rogers? At this rate Texas will be 10 games out of the wild card race by the all star break. He's old and I'm sure they wouldn't mind getting a young pitching prospect or 2. I know it sounds crazy but all this trade talk we're doing is speculative anyway.

[Milkman delivers]

Why not go for Kenny Rogers? At this rate Texas will be 10 games out of the wild card race by the all star break.  He's old and I'm sure they wouldn't mind getting a young pitching prospect or 2.  I know it sounds crazy but all this trade talk we're doing is speculative anyway.

 

But this speculation has some rumor behind it...or at least logic. Kenny Rogers?!

[Jabroni]

Why not go for Kenny Rogers? At this rate Texas will be 10 games out of the wild card race by the all star break.  He's old and I'm sure they wouldn't mind getting a young pitching prospect or 2.  I know it sounds crazy but all this trade talk we're doing is speculative anyway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rogers just broke his non-pitching hand punching something in the dugout. Also, he always starts out hot and then sucks in the second half. And why would the Rangers want to trade a starting pitcher? They NEED starting pitching. They wouldn't trade it away.

Edited June 29, 2005 by Jabroni

[BigSqwert]

He just broke his non-pitching hand punching something in the dugout.  He also always starts out hot and then sucks in the second half.  And why would the Rangers want to trade a starting pitcher?  They NEED starting pitching.  They wouldn't trade it away.

 

I know it sounded nuts but just seems like Texas is dropping games faster than Paris Hilton can drop to her knees. They need young pitching prospects because they are going nowhere this year. Rogers is 85 years old.

[Jabroni]

I know it sounded nuts but just seems like Texas is dropping games faster than Paris Hilton can drop to her knees.  They need young pitching prospects because they are going nowhere this year.  Rogers is 85 years old.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They are dropping fast but I don't think they will concede the division just yet.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 03:16 AM)

Why do we have to do anything? We have the best record in baseball, don't we? Why must we always make changes; why must we change something that isn't broken? If I were going to make changes to the team, I'd try to add another solid right handed reliever, try to find a left-handed backup for Paulie (or wait for Gload to come back, if that ever happens), and find a dependable backup shortstop. None of those options should cost that much, and they would solidfy the team without making massive changes. I'd also like to get Chavez, but I know that is a pipedream.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because I don't want to just MAKE the playoffs. I have seen the White Sox do that plenty of times. I want to win in the playoffs. I want to move on and have a realistic chance of winning the World Series. Just because we have the best record in baseball does not mean we have the best team in baseball. We have an opportunity to get better, so why shouldn't we take that opportunity?

 

Bobby Jenks will be that solid right handed reliever. We don't have to go out and get one, we already have him. Done.

 

Ross Gload. Done.

 

Maybe we can have the Giants include Vizquel in a deal with Schmidt. That would enable you to move Uribe to third and he can be the reliable backup SS when he is needed.

 

Chavez is not going anywhere. I would like to have A-Rod and Jeter as well. While we are at it why don't we see if we can get Scott Rolen and Albert Pujols from the Cardinals. Point is Schmidt is available. Chavez is not.

[CWSGuy406]

I'm not sure the answer to this, but unless management is planning on increasing the payroll next year by at least $10 million (which is what it will cost for this new starting pitcher everyone is drooling over), this all strikes me as a fantasy exercise.  I certainly don't want to surrender our top prospects on a 3-month rental.  (Though Roger Clemens has tempted me.)  The only reason the Garcia trade has worked for us (we could sure use Mike Morse at SS instead of Uribe, couldn't we?) is we signed Garcia for 3 years. 

 

--------------------------------

 

In the outfield, we're stuck with Jermaine Dye through 2006, but after that we need a home grown guy to take his place.  SS is another position we could use talent from within. 

 

 

Umm... what exactly is the problem with Uribe? I realize he's been bad this season, but you're not gonna find many SS's who are better defensively than Uribe. Plus, Morse might eventually have to move to 3B. I'd take Uribe over Morse every day of the week, I don't know exactly what you're getting at there. I believe he makes something between $3-5 million bucks (through his extension) in the next couple of years, he's one of the last ones this team who's hurting us.

 

And, for those who suggested Jamie Moyer? Uhh -- no.

[qwerty]

Because I don't want to just MAKE the playoffs. I have seen the White Sox do that plenty of times. I want to win in the playoffs. I want to move on and have a realistic chance of winning the World Series. Just because we have the best record in baseball does not mean we have the best team in baseball. We have an opportunity to get better, so why shouldn't we take that opportunity?

 

Bobby Jenks will be that solid right handed reliever. We don't have to go out and get one, we already have him. Done.

 

Ross Gload. Done.

 

Maybe we can have the Giants include Vizquel in a deal with Schmidt. That would enable you to move Uribe to third and he can be the reliable backup SS when he is needed.

 

Chavez is not going anywhere. I would like to have A-Rod and Jeter as well. While we are at it why don't we see if we can get Scott Rolen and Albert Pujols from the Cardinals. Point is Schmidt is available. Chavez is not.

 

Jenks is not ready this year. Don't even think he is.

 

Vizquel? You can pay for his contract and i will be fine with that.

[Jabroni]

Jenks is not ready this year. Don't even think he is.

 

Vizquel? You can pay for his contract and i will be fine with that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think some people realize that Uribe is here mostly for his defense. Why do you guys think Buehrle and Garland are racking up so many wins? Uribe's defense is a huge key. Move him to 3rd base? Why? He isn't hitting much better than Crede.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(qwerty @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 03:46 AM)

Jenks is not ready this year. Don't even think he is.

 

Vizquel? You can pay for his contract and i will be fine with that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Umm, I think the White Sox are paying. I wish I was paying it cause it would make me an owner. Reinsdorf said that money is not an issue. So start adding. Why the hell do you care so much about payroll? Your not paying for it? Your not the White Sox accountant. What the f*** do you care?

 

And I think that Jenks is ready and he will be up this year.

Edited June 29, 2005 by southsideirish

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 03:49 AM)

I don't think some people realize that Uribe is here mostly for his defense.  Why do you guys think Buehrle and Garland are racking up so many wins?  Uribe's defense is a huge key.  Move him to 3rd base?  Why?  He isn't hitting much better than Crede.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree, just giving zoom some options for a backup SS. Thats all.

[ZoomSlowik]

Because I don't want to just MAKE the playoffs. I have seen the White Sox do that plenty of times. I want to win in the playoffs. I want to move on and have a realistic chance of winning the World Series. Just because we have the best record in baseball does not mean we have the best team in baseball. We have an opportunity to get better, so why shouldn't we take that opportunity?

 

Bobby Jenks will be that solid right handed reliever. We don't have to go out and get one, we already have him. Done.

 

Ross Gload. Done.

 

Maybe we can have the Giants include Vizquel in a deal with Schmidt. That would enable you to move Uribe to third and he can be the reliable backup SS when he is needed.

 

Chavez is not going anywhere. I would like to have A-Rod and Jeter as well. While we are at it why don't we see if we can get Scott Rolen and Albert Pujols from the Cardinals. Point is Schmidt is available. Chavez is not.

 

We don't know that Schmidt is available. We're just speculating. About a month ago Chavez was available and we were speculating the same way. Zito is the same way. In fact, his GM said that he isn't going anywhere. And we're assuming that Burnett is available, despite the fact the Florida is only 6 out in their division and 3.5 out of the wildcard. The difference in this situation is that the Giants aren't a cash-strapped small market team that can't afford to keep anyone. They're also probably still under some crazy impression that they can compete once Bonds get back. I'm also not sure why you expect them to throw in Vizquel, considering that he is hitting close to .300 and is signed for two more seasons, or that we would want him after signing Uribe. We don't really know who is available the vast majority of the time. At this time every year we sit here arguing about whatever big name players we can acquire that we never really even come close to getting, and many of those guys never get dealt anyways. In the end, it's highly unlikely that these big name potential impact players will get dealt, which is why I'm looking for and expecting more minor changes. You don't see the division leaders making that many moves that drastically alter the makeup of their team, it's always the teams trying to make up ground like the Astros last year. I definitely see this being the case with us, especially in regards to a starting pitcher, since we have 5 starting pitchers under contract through the end of next season, and our top prospect is also a starter.

 

Also, there's not telling whether or not Jenks (or Baj for that matter) will come up to the big club and produce, or if Gload will be able to be a solid role player.

 

Edit- By the way, how have you seen the Sox "just make the playoffs" plenty of times? It's not like it's that common an occurance. They've only made the playoffs 3 times since 1980, and before that you have to go to 1959. And I wouldn't exactly call the '59 team "just making the playoffs" since they were in the series, or the '93 team since they were a pretty good team.

Edited June 29, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[CWSGuy406]

Umm, I think the White Sox are paying. I wish I was paying it cause it would make me an owner. Reinsdorf said that money is not an issue. So start adding. Why the hell do you care so much about payroll? Your not paying for it? Your not the White Sox accountant. What the f*** do you care?

 

And I think that Jenks is ready and he will be up this year.

 

Jenks' walk rate is atrocious. Qwerty is dead on.

 

Let's give Jeff Baj a shot before Jenks.

 

And, Vizquel is worse defensively than Uribe -- IMO.

 

EDIT: One more thing -- why is everyone talking about adding another starting pitcher? Am I watching the wrong games? Our offense isn't really good. I know, I know, the chemistry thing, but how about we look at Aubrey Huff a little more? I know you lose defense, but it's more than made up for with his offense. Another bullpen arm would be my second priority, the deeper the bullpen, the better I like our chances.

 

And Kalapse is right about Oakland. Unless Beane gets an overwhelmingly good deal, he isn't trading Chavez/Zito. They're about to win again tonight, making them what -- four, five games under .500? Right or wrong, Beane thinks his team has a shot at the playoffs. And speaking of Oakland, I don't want to see anyone b**** out Beane for the Mulder deal. Haren is pitching better than Mulder, at what, 1/20th the price? 300K vs. $7 million, isn't it? Plus Barton, and Calero (who's been bad in 16 IP, but injured for a while too).

Edited June 29, 2005 by CWSGuy406