The Gigantic all encompassing TRADE THREAD

[nitetrain8601]

Please.  Uribe is struggling but his bat is still way better than Valdez's.  Even Ozuna is 10 times the player Valdez is.  Valdez was hitting .198 on the season.  There's a reason he is in the minors right now.  He has a good glove but absolutely no stick whatsoever.

 

You said who's a better defensive player than Uribe who would be available. You didn't say better overall player. Valdez has a better glove than Uribe. Some think he may even be a GG defensively.

[Jabroni]

You said who's a better defensive player than Uribe who would be available. You didn't say better overall player. Valdez has a better glove than Uribe. Some think he may even be a GG defensively.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wasn't completely forgetting about offense. If we just wanted a good glove at SS, Valdez would be starting there for us.

[qwerty]

Some think he may even be a GG defensively.

 

Who is that?

[Jabroni]

Who is that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The same people who think that Ozuna has a better glove at SS than Uribe.

[witesoxfan]

Please.  Uribe is struggling but his bat is still way better than Valdez's.  Even Ozuna is 10 times the player Valdez is.  Valdez was hitting .198 on the season.  There's a reason he is in the minors right now.  He has a good glove but absolutely no stick whatsoever.

 

There's also Pokey Reese, who can hit .200 for you and still help the team win, just with his glove. Saves all kinds of runs on defense. Have him playing backup 2B, SS, and 3B, and I would be fine and dandy. Hell, we might get lucky and Pokey might hit in the .240 range and put up a .650-.700 OPS, and actually help a little offensively.

 

Not that I necessarily want him to start...but having him as a backup? Sure, bring him on.

 

There is also Omar Vizquel - and he doesn't have a ridiculously bad contract(except that he has a 3rd year, which is teh sux0rs)

[nitetrain8601]

The same people who think that Ozuna has a better glove at SS than Uribe.

 

Nope, Ozzie thinks he's a GG calibur SS, but he just doesn't have any offense. I just think he's better defensively than Uribe, I don't know about GG calibur though.

[YASNY]

This is a tough call to make. Is Schmidt the same guy who can pound the zone with 98 mph heat and be an ace or is he a guy that will sometimes hit 94 or 95 and struggle as he's coming back from his injury. Alphonzo's numbers look decent, but will he struggle with being in the AL for the first time?

 

Crede may not be gang busters at the plate, but he's got to be worth an half an out per game defensively over the average 3B. I'm very leary of moving Crede right now as he has been an achor of our improved team defense which has helped our pitcher's so much this year.

 

I'd move BMac, Anderson and Tracey for Schmidt, but I wouldn't allow Crede or Sweeney to get away. Just MHO.

[Rowand44]

This is a tough call to make.  Is Schmidt the same guy who can pound the zone with 98 mph heat and be an ace or is he a guy that will sometimes hit 94 or 95 and struggle as he's coming back from his injury.  Alphonzo's numbers look decent, but will he struggle with being in the AL for the first time? 

 

Crede may not be gang busters at the plate, but he's got to be worth an half an out per game defensively over the average 3B.  I'm very leary of moving Crede right now as he has been an achor of our improved team defense which has helped our pitcher's so much this year.

 

I'd move BMac, Anderson and Tracey for Schmidt, but I wouldn't allow Crede or Sweeney to get away.  Just MHO.

That's a great package and would probably land Schmidt in a heartbeat. Honestly, I make that deal for me if we can get to the playoffs and go in there throwing Buehrle, Garland, Garland and Schmidt in a short series is to much to pass up imo. I agree about Joe though, the left side of the infield is as good as you'll find in baseball imo, I'm not sure I want to mess with that even with their offensive struggles.

[YASNY]

That's a great package and would probably land Schmidt in a heartbeat.  Honestly, I make that deal for me if we can get to the playoffs and go in there throwing Buehrle, Garland, Garland and Schmidt in a short series is to much to pass up imo.  I agree about Joe though, the left side of the infield is as good as you'll find in baseball imo, I'm not sure I want to mess with that even with their offensive struggles.

 

The reason I'd make that deal ... The road to the AL crown is going to go through Boston. Contreras cannot win at Boston. That is a proven fact. If we are down 2-1 in Boston, I'd much rather have Scmidt on the mound than Contreras. Who knows what the situation will be with Hernandez?

[Rowand44]

The reason I'd make that deal ... The road to the AL crown is going to go through Boston.  Contreras cannot win at Boston.  That is a proven fact.  If we are down 2-1 in Boston, I'd much rather have Scmidt on the mound than Contreras.  Who knows what the situation will be with Hernandez?

IIRC he did pitch a pretty good game at fenway for us last year at some point but when he was with NY he definitely got lit up against the Red Sox.

[Wedge]

OK. If you watched the game tonight, you saw a great performance by a great pitcher almost go for naught. Would Jason Schmidt have helped our offense tonight? We have had plenty of starting pitching thus far, and I don't think it will drop off to a significant level.

 

Now, consider a few weeks ago when Frank came back to the line-up. Remember the effect that seemed to have on the rest of the team? Remember how the Sox have generally put up better offensive numbers since then? That should tell you something about the effect that even adding a solid regular bat to the line-up would have (a la Randa or someone that can hit consistently from the SS spot). Then imagine if we got Chavez or the ilk.

 

We didn't lose the 2000 playoffs because of a lack of pitching. We lost because our bats disappeared. I'm concerned that we'll lose in the 2005 playoffs for the same reason: no bats to begin with.

[YASNY]

IIRC he did pitch a pretty good game at fenway for us last year at some point but when he was with NY he definitely got lit up against the Red Sox.

 

If he pitched a decent game in Fenway, I'd be inclined to call it a fluke.

[Kalapse]

IIRC he did pitch a pretty good game at fenway for us last year at some point but when he was with NY he definitely got lit up against the Red Sox.

Chicago White Sox     IP     H   R  ER  BB  SO  HR
Contreras W(10-5)      6     4   4   4   5   8   1

 

He got the win and 8 strikeouts while only allowing 4 hits, the problem is he walked 5 and gave up 4 ERs.

 

Not very encouraging.

[Rowand44]

If he pitched a decent game in Fenway, I'd be inclined to call it a fluke.

Fair enough, I'm not disagreeing with what you said I'm just pretty sure he did pitch one good game there. All I know is Mark, Jon, Freddy and Jason in a 5 or 7 game series is just nasty. That would be real hard to beat.

[YASNY]

OK.  If you watched the game tonight, you saw a great performance by a great pitcher almost go for naught.  Would Jason Schmidt have helped our offense tonight?  We have had plenty of starting pitching thus far, and I don't think it will drop off to a significant level.

 

Now, consider a few weeks ago when Frank came back to the line-up.  Remember the effect that seemed to have on the rest of the team?  Remember how the Sox have generally put up better offensive numbers since then?  That should tell you something about the effect that even adding a solid regular bat to the line-up would have (a la Randa or someone that can hit consistently from the SS spot).  Then imagine if we got Chavez or the ilk.

 

We didn't lose the 2000 playoffs because of a lack of pitching.  We lost because our bats disappeared.  I'm concerned that we'll lose in the 2005 playoffs for the same reason: no bats to begin with.

 

Legitimate concerns. Still, I wouldn't move Crede just to upgrade offensively at 3rd base unless it was a Chavez quality ballplayer. Crede's defense is undervalued around here.

[Rowand44]

Chicago White Sox     IP     H   R  ER  BB  SO  HR
Contreras W(10-5)      6     4   4   4   5   8   1

 

He got the win and 8 strikeouts while only allowing 4 hits, the problem is he walked 5 and gave up 4 ERs.

 

Not very encouraging.

Ok, thanks kalapse, I remember he was in a bunch of jams that game and I think he worked around a few of 'em so maybe that's why I thought he had a real good outing.

[Kalapse]

Ok, thanks kalapse, I remember he was in a bunch of jams that game and I think he worked around a few of 'em so maybe that's why I thought he had a real good outing.

FWIW that was the Rowand 2HR game at Fenway. Ben Davis also had 4 RBI.

[Rowand44]

FWIW that was the Rowand 2HR game at Fenway. Ben Davis also had 4 RBI.

The Ben Davis is god days, I rememer those well.

[Dam8610]

I don't have confidence that Schmidt is an ace level pitcher any more. Sure, he had a quality start tonight, but he barely met the minimum requirement to do so. Ace level pitchers don't do that, or if they do, it's on a very rare occassion. Schmidt has done that or worse far too much for the Sox to take a chance on him IMO.

 

If the Sox are going make a big run at a starter, why not make it a 28 year old with wicked stuff including a 100 MPH fastball, and stats like this over his past 35 games (34 of which are starts), or about one season worth of a sample set:

 

12-11 3.43 ERA 35 G 34 GS 4 CG 1 SHO 223.1 IP 192 H 92 R 85 ER 15 HR 71 BB 206 K 1.18 WHIP 8.30 K/9

 

If I could figure out how to calculate his BAA I would, but I know it's somewhere in the .230s The ONLY stat that doesn't look like a stat that a good pitcher would have is his record, but that's a product of the Marlins not giving him run support. This is the pitcher that the Sox should go after, if they're going to go after anyone.

Edited June 29, 2005 by Dam8610

[beck72]

And again, you don't seem to get the concept that we don't need another ace pitcher. Why? Because that will minimize probably Garland or Garcia's effectiveness which essentially would be benching an ace. So basically you're trading for a guy who is going to be benched(Ozzie is extremely loyal to his guys and will ride his guys over a guy who was traded for who has similar #'s to Duque and Count). I rather get proven major league relieving like Wagner or Lidge or a 3B or SS who are upgrades at those positions for this team. That is much more needed than starting pitching, especially when 2 of the starters are going to be thrown into the pen.

With the sox being linked to names such as Schmidt, Zito and Lilly throughout many national baseball links, zero on getting guys like Lidge or Wagner or a big bat, a tiny bit on the sox asking about Chavez, there seems more of a focus on SP than anything else.

 

FWIW, what you or I want makes zero difference. Kw will make a move or two to improve the team. Hopefully, those moves will pan out.

[beck72]

The reason I'd make that deal ... The road to the AL crown is going to go through Boston.  Contreras cannot win at Boston.  That is a proven fact.  If we are down 2-1 in Boston, I'd much rather have Scmidt on the mound than Contreras.  Who knows what the situation will be with Hernandez?

Very good point. With Contreras' inconsistency, even pitching against scrub teams with nothing on the line, having him pitch on the road in the playoffs might give Ozzie and KW a heart attack. Somehow, I think Ozzie and KW want more of a sure thing 1-4 before the deadline to load up for the playoffs.

 

Now, could SF want Contreras as part of package for Schmidt? Esp. as they'll want to be in win now mode for 2006? Who's more likely to help SF win in the short term--Bmac or Jose? Jose probably. Yet the 5th spot for the sox could be handled by a combo of Hernandez and Bmac.

[Jabroni]

Very good point. With Contreras' inconsistency, even pitching against scrub teams with nothing on the line, having him pitch on the road in the playoffs might give Ozzie and KW a heart attack. Somehow, I think Ozzie and KW want more of a sure thing 1-4 before the deadline to load up for the playoffs.

 

Now, could SF want Contreras as part of package for Schmidt? Esp. as they'll want to be in win now mode for 2006? Who's more likely to help SF win in the short term--Bmac or Jose? Jose probably. Yet the 5th spot for the sox could be handled by a combo of Hernandez and Bmac.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Contreras will earn $8 million next season. I'm sure the Giants would rather just keep Schmidt for $10 million than pay Contreras $8 million.

Edited June 29, 2005 by Jabroni

[EvilJester99]

This may be down right silly but what if the Sox were to trade Garland for Schimdt/package? Yes I know Garland has been hot as hell this season but thats partly the reason why. His trade value has probably never been this high and may never again be, plus IIRC isn't Garland a FA after this season? Maybe the Sox may think to try and resign again or that they may not even be able to do so....I am not saying I would be for this, I would rather it be El Duque or Contreras to go but does anyone really think SF or anyone else for that matter would want either of those guys??

[Al Lopez Ghost (old)]

This may be down right silly but what if the Sox were to trade Garland for Schimdt/package? Yes I know Garland has been hot as hell this season but thats partly the reason why. His trade value has probably never been this high and may never again be, plus IIRC isn't Garland a FA after this season? Maybe the Sox may think to try and resign again or that they may not even be able to do so....I am not saying I would be for this, I would rather it be El Duque or Contreras to go but does anyone really think SF or anyone else for that matter would want either of those guys??

To me, the whole idea is to get 4 dominating starters for the playoffs. You don't get that by trading one for another. But I agree, nobody wants El Duque or Contreras very badly, including the White Sox.

[Jabroni]

This may be down right silly but what if the Sox were to trade Garland for Schimdt/package? Yes I know Garland has been hot as hell this season but thats partly the reason why. His trade value has probably never been this high and may never again be, plus IIRC isn't Garland a FA after this season? Maybe the Sox may think to try and resign again or that they may not even be able to do so....I am not saying I would be for this, I would rather it be El Duque or Contreras to go but does anyone really think SF or anyone else for that matter would want either of those guys??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That would make no sense. Garland has pitched better than Schmidt this season and is cheaper. Plus, we want to ADD another quality starter. Not replace one with another.