The Gigantic all encompassing TRADE THREAD

[Balta1701]

As many teams as there are out there looking for starting pitching, it's going to cost us a ton if that's what we go for. We will literally be in a bidding war if we go after Schmidt. Yankees, Red Sox, Orioles, Rangers, hell they could all use another starter. We're in a much better position that almost anyone else in the league.

[ZoomSlowik]

I never thought I'd hear somebody say they'd be upset to get Jason Schmidt.

 

On another note, it's not so easy to just get Burnett.  We might not have the parts to swing that deal.

 

Why wouldn't I be upset if we gave up our top 2 prospects for a guy who's coming off an injury this year with a lower velocity and to this point has similar numbers to El Duque? Unless he strings together a couple more solid starts (I don't consider last night solid), I don't see him as being much of an upgrade. As for Burnett, I doubt Florida's asking price is any different than Schmidt's. If the Marlins are shopping him, he's gonna cost about the same. We've also probably got better prospects to offer than the other contenders (except Philly if they wanted to deal Howard and Floyd, or if Texas gives up some of their young major leaguers).

[Milkman delivers]

Alright, I give up. Jason Schmidt sucks. He was a fluke.

[daa84]

Why wouldn't I be upset if we gave up our top 2 prospects for a guy who's coming off an injury this year with a lower velocity and to this point has similar numbers to El Duque? Unless he strings together a couple more solid starts (I don't consider last night solid), I don't see him as being much of an upgrade. As for Burnett, I doubt Florida's asking price is any different than Schmidt's. If the Marlins are shopping him, he's gonna cost about the same. We've also probably got better prospects to offer than the other contenders (except Philly if they wanted to deal Howard and Floyd, or if Texas gives up some of their young major leaguers).

the marlins are still trying to win this year and pull off a trade like they did for penny where they get decent this year and better in future years. btw gavin floyd has been the epitome of awful this year

[CWSGuy406]

I'm usually not the one to bring up the whole clubhouse chemistry thing, but isn't Burnett sort of a jag? I thought I'd heard that he was basically calling up Carl Pavano (prior to this season) basically talking to him about signing with the Yankees.

 

If KW thinks Aubrey Huff can put this team over the top, you gotta do it. Then, after this season, you don't have to worry about resigning Konerko, as you could stick Huff in several different places (most likely one of the corner IF spots). He's posted OPS+ of 132, 139, and 124 the past three seasons, and is 28 (IIRC) this year. Like I said, I'd start off with a package of Crede + Fields + Tracey, as well as a young arm like Josh Fields 2 or Jeff Baj or Arnie Munoz or Felix Diaz.

 

 

Wow, nice play Jody Gerut.

[WHarris1]

Wow, nice play Jody Gerut.

Hell yeah that was a great grab.

[Milkman delivers]

I'm usually not the one to bring up the whole clubhouse chemistry thing, but isn't Burnett sort of a jag?  I thought I'd heard that he was basically calling up Carl Pavano (prior to this season) basically talking to him about signing with the Yankees.

 

If KW thinks Aubrey Huff can put this team over the top, you gotta do it.  Then, after this season, you don't have to worry about resigning Konerko, as you could stick Huff in several different places (most likely one of the corner IF spots).  He's posted OPS+ of 132, 139, and 124 the past three seasons, and is 28 (IIRC) this year.  Like I said, I'd start off with a package of Crede + Fields + Tracey, as well as a young arm like Josh Fields 2 or Jeff Baj or Arnie Munoz or Felix Diaz.

Wow, nice play Jody Gerut.

 

That's some BS on Burnett's part if he said that. I'm almost 100% confident that Burnett's gonna sign with the Yankees this offseason, anyway. What a douche bag.

 

And what did Gerut do?

[ZoomSlowik]

Alright, I give up.  Jason Schmidt sucks.  He was a fluke.

 

I never said he was a fluke. I said he isn't the same pitcher that he used to be. There's a difference. Why don't we go get Chan Ho Park too, he used to be pretty good. Maybe we can get Kerry Wood while we're at it. Take a look at his stats for this season and tell me that he is an ace that is going to get us to the series. I'll believe it when I see him put up a few more good starts.

Edited June 29, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[southsideirish71]

I never said he was a fluke. I said he isn't the same pitcher that he used to be. There's a difference. Why don't we go get Chan Ho Park too, he used to be pretty good. Take a look at his stats for this season and tell me that he is an ace that is going to get us to the series. I'll believe it when I see him put up a few more good starts.

 

 

Well according to people on the SF board he was hitting 94 and 95 on the gun last night. Granted its not the 97 he was throwing last year, but I would take him throwing 94 over El Duque and his 84mph any day of the week and twice on sunday.

Edited June 29, 2005 by southsideirish71

[nitetrain8601]

Well according to people on the SF board he was hitting 94 and 95 on the gun last night.  Granted its not the 97 he was throwing last year, but I would take him throwing 94 over El Duque and his 84mph any day of the week and twice on sunday.

 

But he was a pitcher last year with great velocity and decent control. With his fastball being 5 miles slower, he's now an average pitcher because he has a 94 mph, but still only decent control. He needs to get his velocity at least up to 97 IMO to be effective as an ace. Right now, he's no better than El Duque which would make trading for him for that big of a price worthless. I rather have Burnett.

 

Also take this into consideration. Boston and the Angels have hitting clubs that love to see the fastball and jack it out of the park, so when you pitch a Schmidt without all his velocity or even a Burnett, you'll be walking on water while being connected to a battery. You're just asking for trouble. If Schmidt gets it back to at least 97 within his next 2 starts, then I say it's okay to take a flyer on him, if not let him be.

[sircaffey]

I never said he was a fluke. I said he isn't the same pitcher that he used to be. There's a difference. Why don't we go get Chan Ho Park too, he used to be pretty good. Maybe we can get Kerry Wood while we're at it. Take a look at his stats for this season and tell me that he is an ace that is going to get us to the series. I'll believe it when I see him put up a few more good starts.

 

You're right...Pitchers never go through small stretches where there don't perform. Pitcher's never go through a period of dead arm or something of that sort. 12-13 starts and suddenly he's Chan Ho Park...Wow.

[ZoomSlowik]

Well according to people on the SF board he was hitting 94 and 95 on the gun last night.  Granted its not the 97 he was throwing last year, but I would take him throwing 94 over El Duque and his 84mph any day of the week and twice on sunday.

 

His velocity is still down a bit, which is usually a concern. The more important part was that his performance this year is about the same as El Duque. As I said, unless he puts together a couple of good starts in a row, I'd rather hang onto our top two prospects, unless we could get them to take Contreras in the deal (since their periferrals are similar and cost about the same, I'd rather go with the guy with a better history), and try to acquire some guys that will help our offense a bit and another solid arm in the pen, since our top 4 guys are going to get a ton of work throughout the playoffs.

[ZoomSlowik]

You're right...Pitchers never go through small stretches where there don't perform.  Pitcher's never go through a period of dead arm or something of that sort.  12-13 starts and suddenly he's Chan Ho Park...Wow.

 

It's pretty rare that guys add a run and a half to their ERA from the previous year, at least unless there is something wrong. This is especially true of guys like Schmidt, who have been among the top starters in the league for the last few years. Apparently you haven't grasped the concepts of sarcasm and exaggeration.

Edited June 29, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[Milkman delivers]

Right now, he's no better than El Duque which would make trading for him for that big of a price worthless.

 

Jesus Christ.

[Wedge]

Jesus Christ.

 

I don't think he's that far off.

[daa84]

Jesus Christ.

agreed

[Milkman delivers]

I don't think he's that far off.

 

OK.

 

I'm dropping it now.

 

Schmidt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>El Duque

 

That's all I have to say.

[Dick Allen]

I'm pretty sure White Sox fans are the only ones who would b**** when their team with the best record in baseball, who haven't won a World

Series in almost 90 years, are rumored to be interested in acquiring an ace pitcher to add to their depth, and block him from going to a rival.

[Wedge]

OK.

 

I'm dropping it now.

 

Schmidt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>El Duque

 

That's all I have to say.

 

I disagree.

 

Schmidt>>El Duque

 

I'm being half serious.

[nitetrain8601]

OK.

 

I'm dropping it now.

 

Schmidt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>El Duque

 

That's all I have to say.

 

Career wise I don't know. I think Duque has a better ERA. Past few years, I'll give you the argument that he's better. As far as right now, Schmidt= or > El Duque, but they aren't far off in comparison as of right now.

[Kyyle23]

Career wise I don't know. I think Duque has a better ERA. Past few years, I'll give you the argument that he's better. As far as right now, Schmidt= or > El Duque, but they aren't far off in comparison as of right now.

 

Nope, Schmidt has a career ERA of 3.90 and El Duque has a career ERA of 3.96.

 

El Duque

http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hernaor01.shtml

 

Schmidt

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/schmija01.shtml

[Wedge]

Career wise I don't know. I think Duque has a better ERA. Past few years, I'll give you the argument that he's better. As far as right now, Schmidt= or > El Duque, but they aren't far off in comparison as of right now.

 

Precisely... they have comparable ERAs despite Schmidt pitching in a pitcher's league and park.

[upnorthsox]

I don't think he's that far off.

 

Not at all, in fact he pitched Sunday

 

[ZoomSlowik]

Schmidt is better than El Duque. I don't think you can really argue otherwise. Their ERA is similar, but Herndez's WHIP and BAA are higher, and Schmidt strikes out a lot more guys. That's not the issue though. Hernandez is going to be relagated to the bullpen in the playoffs. It is somewhat important if he is better than Contreras or not, since the 4th starter will have to pitch probably twice. Statistically, this isn't even close. Contreras has a much better ERA, a much better WHIP, a much better BAA, and a decent strikeout rate, although it is lower. The comparison that is really important is whether or not he is better than Garland or Garcia. I'm not even going to bother with those comparisons, because outside of K's it's not really close. Schmidt has shown little this season to convince that he can consistently be better than Garland or Garcia, which is key since we would be cutting their use in the playoffs at least in half. Maybe Schmidt can get back to his old form, maybe he can't. So far since he came back he's got several poor starts and two very good ones in extreme pitchers' parks. I'd really like to see more before we give up anything significant and diminish the value of Garcia or Garland.

Edited June 29, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[Kyyle23]

Even though everyone is saying Schmidt might be hurt and he was last year and this and that, look at the numbers. Schmidt still pitched 225 innings last year with a 3.20 ERA. Hernandez career high, when he was HEALTHY was only 214 innings. Schmidt is a horse, and Hernandez is a big game gamer, nothing else really. If you look at the past three years without even knowing the names, who would you want? The pitcher that is averaging 200+ innings a year, or the pitcher who didnt even pitch two years ago, barely pitched 80 innings last year, and barely 90 innings 3 years ago?

 

Whats the point of having a "Big Game Pitcher" if he is on the DL more than he is active?