The Gigantic all encompassing TRADE THREAD

[southsideirish71]

Let's remember this with his bad starts this month.

 

1st one - Chris Widger was catching him. Big NO-NO.

2nd one - Gave up a grand slam which really hurt against the Flubs.

 

Other than that, he's given up 2 ER, 1 ER, and 3 ER in his other outings so far this month.

 

 

His merit will be tested when he faces a good hitting team.

 

So far he has 15 starts. He has faced only two good hitting teams DET and Arizona.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 08:42 PM)

Way to use one start for each of the pitchers as a basis for comparison. How about their other 12-14 starts apiece, huh? I doubt Burnett costs anymore than Schmidt will because he is a pending free agent. There is at least an option on Schmidt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Compared them against the same lineup you said Schmidt pitched horribly against last night. It seems as though our guys faired worse than Schmidt against the same exact team and at home.

[Rowand44]

Can someone pull up Schmidt's career splits vs. AL.

I don't have the splits right in front of me right now but I was looking at 'em before team by team and I'm pretty sure he's done good against every al team except like the Tigers or some team like that.

[Kyyle23]

Take a look at the Yankees for what happens if you keep trading all of your prospects. They've got a lot of old guys on their roster, and no one in the minors. They have no one that can really help their major league team, and no real ammo to add another player in a trade. They're pretty much stuck with what they have. And the Sox can't afford to keep adding FA veterans like the Yankees do to replace them. Not all of them pan out, but those that do are of upmost importance, especially for a mid market team.

 

How many World Series have the Yankees been in since 1996? How many AL Championships? How many times have they gone to the playoffs? How many times did they win their division?

 

The Yankees have gotten the short end of the stick this year, but they have no problem mortgaging the future for the present, if the present means a World Series. Most importantly, the Yankees have put themselves in a position where their minor leagues arent as important any more because "everyone wants to be a Yankee", and they can stack their team in the offseason.

 

I dont think the Yankees are the example you want to give when proving that you should not trade away your prospects.

 

And the season isnt even over yet, I wont kick dirt over the Yankees until the playoffs start and the Yankees are officially out of it.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 08:42 PM)

Way to use one start for each of the pitchers as a basis for comparison. How about their other 12-14 starts apiece, huh? I doubt Burnett costs anymore than Schmidt will because he is a pending free agent. There is at least an option on Schmidt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Burnett will not cost more because he is FA, he will cost more because he is younger. He will cost more to resign next year than the 10 million dollars you worried about giving to Schmidt next year.

[DBAHO]

Do we need them to be ready next year?  Or even the year after that?

 

No, we don't.  By trading away McCarthy, Sweeney, or Anderson, we're not mortgaging the future.  There are viable options behind them, just not ready soon.  But, we don't need them soon.  We have our outfield locked up at least through next year, and I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find a stop-gap OFer to take over one of the spots for a year.  Our starters are locked up even longer, and I'm sure we could find a cheap stop-gap for one of those guys for a year.

Sweeney and Anderson are hands down better than any OF prospects that we have. Jerry Owens could be nothing more than a 4th outfielder, Chris Young too. After next season, Contreras and Hernandez will both be FA's. Jon Garland will need to be re-signed to a long - term deal after the season. Tracey could be ready by then, but I see him pitching out of the pen long term, like Neal Cotts. Liotta and Gonzalez will both be extremely young still, and it'll be like the same problem people are saying we are having now with B-Mac.

[ZoomSlowik]

His merit will be tested when he faces a good hitting team. 

 

So far he has 15 starts.  He has faced only two good hitting teams DET and Arizona.

 

Since when are Baltimore, Minnesota, and the Angels (twice) bad hitting clubs? He wasn't dominant in those games, but he wasn't awful either. Also, he absolutely dominated Detroit when he faced them.

[VAfan]

I'll never understand this way of thinking.

 

We can make the team better without removing any pieces from the present team, and it's a bad idea?

 

The reason Contreras has to go is because he's signed for $8 million next year. Schmidt's option is for $10 million. Either we exercise it or sign him longer term. In any event, you have to subtract Contreras's $8 million to make it work on a zero-sum club like the Sox. We aren't Boston or the Yankees.

 

Same thing applies for Uribe, who is signed for the same period as Vizquel.

[DBAHO]

His merit will be tested when he faces a good hitting team. 

 

So far he has 15 starts.  He has faced only two good hitting teams DET and Arizona.

Colorado in Colorado?

The Baltimore Orioles aren't a good hitting team?

The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim?

The Cubs have hit pretty good lately too.

[nitetrain8601]

The reason Contreras has to go is because he's signed for $8 million next year.  Schmidt's option is for $10 million.  Either we exercise it or sign him longer term.  In any event, you have to subtract Contreras's $8 million to make it work on a zero-sum club like the Sox.  We aren't Boston or the Yankees. 

 

Same thing applies for Uribe, who is signed for the same period as Vizquel.

 

Again, Contreras is only 6 million and not 8 million. Yankees are picking up some of his contract.

[nitetrain8601]

Colorado in Colorado?

The Baltimore Orioles aren't a good hitting team?

The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim?

The Cubs have hit pretty good lately too.

 

The Cubs are not a good hitting club. We made them look special though on Saturday.

 

When did they face LAA? Was it during Vlad's DL stint?. I'll give you Colorado and Baltimore though.

[DBAHO]

The reason Contreras has to go is because he's signed for $8 million next year.  Schmidt's option is for $10 million.  Either we exercise it or sign him longer term.  In any event, you have to subtract Contreras's $8 million to make it work on a zero-sum club like the Sox.  We aren't Boston or the Yankees. 

 

Same thing applies for Uribe, who is signed for the same period as Vizquel.

The thing is on Vizquel, he will retire in a couple of years. Who's going to replace him? We don't have anyone in our minor league system who has starter like potential. Juan Uribe is still quite young, an excellent fielder, and could still be a Miggy Tejada like hitter.

[upnorthsox]

Again, Contreras is only 6 million and not 8 million. Yankees are picking up some of his contract.

I believe the Yanks only picked up 2 mil of this yr, we'll owe the full $8 mil next.

[ZoomSlowik]

How many World Series have the Yankees been in since 1996? How many AL Championships?  How many times have they gone to the playoffs?  How many times did they win their division? 

 

The Yankees have gotten the short end of the stick this year, but they have no problem mortgaging the future for the present, if the present means a World Series. Most importantly, the Yankees have put themselves in a position where their minor leagues arent as important any more because "everyone wants to be a Yankee", and they can stack their team in the offseason.

 

I dont think the Yankees are the example you want to give when proving that you should not trade away your prospects.

 

And the season isnt even over yet, I wont kick dirt over the Yankees until the playoffs start and the Yankees are officially out of it.

 

How many titles have they won with this current group of players? They haven't been able to win the big one since they started signing every free agent in sight, which also happens to be where their farm system dried up. They haven't been producing guys like Jeter, Rivera, and Williams for a while. Also, considering how high their payroll is, they should win more than the Sox. The Sox can't go out and sign Sheffield when their outfielders start looking like s***, or trade for A-Rod when their 3B get hurt, or afford to have an $18 mil a year 1B start hitting like a middle infielder. Even if they make the playoffs this year, they're probably going to have a tough time acquiring anyone of import at the deadline, and their outlook isn't going to get any better as these guys get older and they start making more money.

[Kyyle23]

The Cubs are not a good hitting club. We made them look special though on Saturday.

 

When did they face LAA? Was it during Vlad's DL stint?. I'll give you Colorado and Baltimore though.

 

Cubs have the 6th best batting average in the league

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggreg...t=0&season=2005

 

they are anything but a bad hitting club

[qwerty]

I believe the Yanks only picked up 2 mil of this yr, we'll owe the full $8 mil next.

 

No, they are paying one million this year and two million next year.

[southsideirish71]

Since when are Baltimore, Minnesota, and the Angels (twice) bad hitting clubs? He wasn't dominant in those games, but he wasn't awful either. Also, he absolutely dominated Detroit when he faced them.

 

 

The Angels didnt have Vlad he was on the DL. And at the time they were near the bottom in hitting. They were struggling to score runs.

 

Minnesota didnt have Morneau who was hitting about 400 at the time. And that start wasnt exactly dominating as he went 4.2 innings with over 100 pitches. Yes the hits and everything looks good. But when you dip into your pen after 4.2 innings because your pitcher couldnt find the plate it doesnt look too good.

 

 

He gave up 4 runs in 6 innings to Baltimore.

[qwerty]

Cubs have the 6th best batting average in the league

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggreg...t=0&season=2005

 

they are anything but a bad hitting club

 

17th in runs scored. Runs scored> batting average.

[ZoomSlowik]

I gotta go for now, so I'm going to make this really simple. Jason Schmidt's ERA this season is 4.81. He's had only 4 good starts and loads of other mediocre to poor starts. Until he drops that number quite a bit or can string together 3-4 more good starts, I don't even want to consider giving up our top two prospects and eating a bunch of money to acquire him based on the CHANCE that he could pitch like the Schmidt of old and get us to the Series. Until I see some indication that he can consistently pitch like Garland or Garcia, I don't want to give up that much for him.

[southsideirish71]

Cubs have the 6th best batting average in the league

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggreg...t=0&season=2005

 

they are anything but a bad hitting club

 

 

At the time of the first series the cubs where not the 6th best batting average team in the NL.

[Balta1701]

Cubs have the 6th best batting average in the league

Derek Lee.

[VAfan]

I agree with the general premise that both Contreras & Uribe can be used as part of a package to get Schmidt & Vizquel.  They both have sizeable trade value & assuming the White Sox throw in a few million it equates to a salary dump for SF. 

 

They are not rebuilding as much as retooling & looking to save a few bucks when Bonds isn't playing.  They've got Barry locked up for 2006 so they definitely will look to be contenders next year.  Moving to the NL might be exactly what Contreras needs.

 

With Uribe & Contreras in the pkg KW doesn't need to include top tier prospects.  2 mid tier prospects would get it down.

 

I'm actually amazed that more folks here are beginning to see the logic of this. And I can't see any other team than SF having a SP/SS combo that addresses our needs who might take Contreras/Uribe. (Based on the numbers you posted above, Ozuna also would give us more value as a sub against tough lefties.)

 

I think it would take more than middling prospects to make it happen, but I'm willing to surrender Anderson and their choice of Takatsu/Vizcaino/Bajenaru, plus their pick among Gload/Munoz/Diaz/Borchard. (But if they'll take less, so much the better.)

 

I think Schmidt carries his own level of risk, but you know that mentally he is going to be in any postseason game, and the same can't be said about Contreras.

 

 

*****************

To the poster who said Vizquel is costing $6 million/year the next two years. That is wrong. His 3-year deal is for $12.25 million. Uribe's contract over the same period is $9.75 million. The difference is just over $1 million/year.

[southsideirish71]

And for all of the people who state we shouldnt trade or make any deals because we will disrupt chemistry or we will cause ourselves harm in the future.

 

In the name of the 2001 Seattle Mariners, I say go ahead and mess.

 

The '01 Mariners went 116-46, finishing with the best record in baseball by 14 victories. Only the 1906 Cubs won as many games -- then they went on to lose to the White Sox in the 1906 World Series.

 

The '01 M's didn't even get that far. They squeaked past the Cleveland Indians 3-2 in the first round of the playoffs and got dusted 4-1 by the New York Yankees. The best record in baseball couldn't guarantee them a ticket to the World Series.

 

As the final 30 minutes ticked toward the July 31 trade deadline in 2001, then-Mariners general manager Pat ''Stand Pat'' Gillick backed off three potential deals. The M's decided not to mess with their good thing.

 

After kidding that the M's were ''deal-less in Seattle'' former Mariners manager Lou Piniella said, ''If you can't improve the roster a whole lot, then in my mind there is no sense in making a deal just to get something done. There is good chemistry here .

 

This should give everyone chills. Sounds very very familiar. I dont want to mess up our chemistry. We have the best record in baseball.

 

 

Make a few trades and lets get ourselves a championship.

[AirScott]

I gotta go for now, so I'm going to make this really simple. Jason Schmidt's ERA this season is 4.81. He's had only 4 good starts and loads of other mediocre to poor starts. Until he drops that number quite a bit or can string together 3-4 more good starts, I don't even want to consider giving up our top two prospects and eating a bunch of money to acquire him based on the CHANCE that he could pitch like the Schmidt of old and get us to the Series. Until I see some indication that he can consistently pitch like Garland or Garcia, I don't want to give up that much for him.

thankfully there is another month until the trade deadline.

[southsideirish71]

thankfully there is another month until the trade deadline.

 

Burnett and Schmidt wont be there by the deadline. Boston/Baltimore will make a run at either.

 

Cuddyer got hurt today. Hit by a pitch. They took him for xrays. If he is hurt and out for a while, the twins will have to make a move. They cant rely on Terry Tiffie as a viable 3rd baseman.