The Gigantic all encompassing TRADE THREAD

[YASNY]

Sigh.

 

It won't happen.  Does anyone really think the White Sox will trade a dangerous bat like Carl Everett, not to mention they are in 1st place by a lot and they love the clubhouse chemistry?

 

And just for grins, Derek Lowe has a huge contract and is represented by Scott Boras?

 

The LA writer is picking up on old info and talking out of his ass.

 

Everett is probably the single biggest addition to the clubhouse chemistry of this team. I know he was here half a season last year, but he was a shell of himself at the time. His comment to Doug Mjgffyuflufg of Minnesota in 2003 told me plenty about Carl and the team we had.

[Rowand44]

VA, I'm not trashing Vizquel, I actually respect Omar a ton, I'm a pretty big fan of the way he plays the game. However Juan is a 25 year old shortstop who has more pop in his bat then Omar and at this point has more range then Vizquel and a much better arm. To answer your question unless a Chavez is available or a player of that capability I leave the offense alone. Crede and Juan who might not be hitting the cover off the ball have been a huge, huge part of this teams success because they suck everything hit to them and make some outstanding plays.

[YASNY]

VA, I'm not trashing Vizquel, I actually respect Omar a ton, I'm a pretty big fan of the way he plays the game.  However Juan is a 25 year old shortstop who has more pop in his bat then Omar and at this point has more range then Vizquel and a much better arm.  To answer your question unless a Chavez is available or a player of that capability I leave the offense alone.  Crede and Juan who might not be hitting the cover off the ball have been a huge, huge part of this teams success because they suck everything hit to them and make some outstanding plays.

 

But they aren't hitting .350. They SUCK!!!!

[Kyyle23]

Everett for Lowe?

 

its ok to dream big Wedge, I wont stop you.

[Wedge]

its ok to dream big Wedge, I wont stop you.

 

Thanks. Hey, did any one hear the rumor that we might be after Chavez?

 

 

 

 

 

if you think I'm serious, check the battery on your sarcasm detector.

[Kyyle23]

Thanks.  Hey, did any one hear the rumor that we might be after Chavez?

if you think I'm serious, check the battery on your sarcasm detector.

 

 

I have a outlet adapter, it is coming through loud and clear.

[Kyyle23]

VA, I'm not trashing Vizquel, I actually respect Omar a ton, I'm a pretty big fan of the way he plays the game.  However Juan is a 25 year old shortstop who has more pop in his bat then Omar and at this point has more range then Vizquel and a much better arm.  To answer your question unless a Chavez is available or a player of that capability I leave the offense alone.  Crede and Juan who might not be hitting the cover off the ball have been a huge, huge part of this teams success because they suck everything hit to them and make some outstanding plays.

 

If you havent noticed, when you disagree with the idea of trading Uribe for Vizquel, then you automatically think that Vizquel sucks. It doesnt matter if you say that you like Vizquel, but you like uribe a little more, Vizquel sucks. Just accept it, there is no point in disputing.

 

Last year I didnt want to trade Maggs for Andruw Jones(at the time, not now ), so obviously Andruw Jones sucks and I dont like him.

[Kalapse]

Thank you.  That is exactly right.

 

To Rowand 44, Kalapse, Zoomslowik, and CWSGuy406, all of whom trash Vizquel, I ask, how would you improve the Sox' offense via a trade at this point? 

 

What Exactley did I ever say about Vizquel?

 

Funny how I don't even remember talking about him, seeing how I alway stay out of Vizquel discussions.

[Milkman delivers]

If you havent noticed, when you disagree with the idea of trading Uribe for Vizquel, then you automatically think that Vizquel sucks. It doesnt matter if you say that you like Vizquel, but you like uribe a little more, Vizquel sucks. Just accept it, there is no point in disputing.

 

Last year I didnt want to trade Maggs for Andruw Jones(at the time, not now ), so obviously Andruw Jones sucks and I dont like him.

 

YEAH OMAR VIZKEL SUCKS REAL BAD!@!!2 LOKO AT THE STATS AN D ALL THE GOLD GLOVES1!!! HEA A REAL LOSER

 

IF YOU DONT LIEK OMAR YOU CAN SUCK A D

[qwerty]

What Exactley did I ever say about Vizquel?

 

Funny how I don't even remember talking about him, seeing how I alway stay out of Vizquel discussions.

 

Maybe he confused our names?

Edited July 1, 2005 by qwerty

[Kyyle23]

YEAH OMAR VIZKEL SUCKS REAL BAD!@!!2 LOKO AT THE STATS AN D ALL THE GOLD GLOVES1!!!  HEA A REAL LOSER

 

IF YOU DONT LIEK OMAR YOU CAN SUCK A D

 

LOL, exactly like that milkman.

[Kalapse]

Maybe he confused are names?

That's the last thing I need, people mixing up my posts with yours. People are going to think I hate the Sox.

[daa84]

Thanks.  Hey, did any one hear the rumor that we might be after Chavez?

if you think I'm serious, check the battery on your sarcasm detector.

ooohooo a sarcasm detector now theres a useful invention

[3E8]

That's the last thing I need, people mixing up my posts with yours. People are going to think I hate the Sox.

qwerty is the most realistic poster on the board if you subtract his posts about Widger.

[Kalapse]

qwerty is the most realistic poster on the board if you subtract his posts about Widger.

You really shouldn't be talking seeing how you have a Timo Perez sig, loser.

[3E8]

You really shouldn't be talking seeing how you have a Timo Perez sig, loser.

Yeah I can be the least realistic at times.

[SHAFTR]

Is is possible that someone changes the Subject (For any and all trade rumors and talk) when a new trade rumor occurs. Example: Jason Schmidt? That would be nice, so we wouldn't have to wade through 70 + pages. Or, could the first post be edited to show everyone who has been rumored.

[Balta1701]

Here's another FYI...

 

Last night on one of the late editions of SportsCenter, ESPN's Tim Kurkjian suggested that while there were a number of teams looking at the Marlins' A.J. Burnett and the Marlins wouldn't be opposed to trading him, it is very likely that he'll get a contract for at least $10 million a year next winter, and Tim felt almost certain that no trade would happen unless the team acquiring him was willing and able to sign Burnett to a contract before the season ended.

[BlackBetsy]

Topic: Edgardo Alfonzo when he comes back from injury.

 

Need: Third Base

 

Likely Cost: Unknown. Joe Crede as a stopgap third baseman...positional prospects may include Ryan Sweeney, Brian Anderson. Pitching prospects may include Brandon McCarthy, Sean Tracey, Gio Gonzalez.

 

Analysis: Alfonzo is 31 and has a $7.5 million per year contract, signed through 2006. He has hit .306/.370/.403 this year in a pitcher's park in San Francisco. Could hit 2nd with high OBP, likely slots in at 6-8. Plays good third base - 5 errors in 56 games in 2005, 12 errors in 129 games in 2004.

 

The key to the deal would be the amount of money San Francisco would take in this deal. Asking the White Sox to take on the remaining $12 million of Alfonzo's contract through '06 could mean that the Giants would settle for Crede and a A- level prospect such as Casey Rogowski or Sean Tracey. Asking the Giants to pick up a substantial portion of the contract will cost the Sox a grade A prospect such as McCarthy, Gonzalez, Anderson, or Sweeney.

[upnorthsox]

Topic: Edgardo Alfonzo when he comes back from injury.

 

Need:  Third Base

 

Likely Cost:  Unknown.  Joe Crede as a stopgap third baseman...positional prospects may include Ryan Sweeney, Brian Anderson.  Pitching prospects may include Brandon McCarthy, Sean Tracey, Gio Gonzalez.

 

Analysis:  Alfonzo is 31 and has a $7.5 million per year contract, signed through 2006.  He has hit .306/.370/.403 this year in a pitcher's park in San Francisco.  Could hit 2nd with high OBP, likely slots in at 6-8.  Plays good third base - 5 errors in 56 games in 2005, 12 errors in 129 games in 2004.

 

The key to the deal would be the amount of money San Francisco would take in this deal.  Asking the White Sox to take on the remaining $12 million of Alfonzo's contract through '06 could mean that the Giants would settle for Crede and a A- level prospect such as Casey Rogowski or Sean Tracey.  Asking the Giants to pick up a substantial portion of the contract will cost the Sox a grade A prospect such as McCarthy, Gonzalez, Anderson, or Sweeney.

 

LOL!! I hope Sabean isn't waiting by the phone for that deal to come down the pipe.

[VAfan]

Here's an alternative that makes sense, they aren't going to trade Juan Uribe in order to bring in Omar Vizquel, part of a larger deal or no.

 

I have watched you post this same scenario for the last few days, and am not certain why you're not getting what KW and Guillen have been consistently saying ... they value the chemistry on this team and don't want to screw it up.

 

It is well and good to play fantasy GM and look at one guy's numbers and say he'd be an offensive improvement, let's do it.  It doesn't work that way though.

 

If the White Sox weren't willing to take on a guaranteed 3rd year for Vizquel before the season, they aren't going to do it now. Of course I am not sitting in the war room nor do I have a crystal ball but they keep saying they don't want to mess with the team chemistry and yet every day here is another trade idea that disrupts the team chemistry.  I don't care if Vizquel is a good locker room guy or not, the point is moot, it changes the chemistry.

 

If there's a trade, IMO the Sox will part with prospects.

 

A fair enough point. But a trade for Schmidt (that might also include Vizquel) is not viable unless the Giants are willing to take Contreras's (and Uribe's if Vizquel is involved) contract off our hands. Otherwise, a deal for one or both blows up our carefully planned salary structure.

 

And do you really believe Contreras or Uribe are critical to team chemistry? As you can see, I made the argument in the same post that Crede may be because he was home-grown, but I just don't see it for the other guys.

 

And sure the Sox could have taken Vizquel's guaranteed 3rd year in the offseason. The reason I think they may now reconsider that choice (and Kalapse I added your name here for the quick line suggesting they wouldn't) is threefold: 1) Uribe seems to have reverted to pre-2004 hitting form, 2) KW now knows this is a postseason team and will consider stretching to make it the best possible postseason team, and 3) Uribe signed for 3 years after Vizquel rejected us, so we are just plugging one 3-year SS in for another.

[Guest JimH]

And do you really believe Contreras or Uribe are critical to team chemistry?  As you can see, I made the argument in the same post that Crede may be because he was home-grown, but I just don't see it for the other guys. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Uribe especially. That in large part is why he was given the chance to be the starting SS. Personally I don't think home grown has anything to do with it, they're all professionals.

 

The most insignificant things are important to team chemistry. Herm Schneider. Man Soo Lee. How Guillen gets along with the coaches. How Rowand has helped Crede come out of his shell, and how much the other players get a kick out of that.

 

It is a complex (there's that word again) and unique balance. And KW and Guillen will be very careful about changing it. Adding to it? Yes. Changing it? Hmmm ...

[GreatScott82]

I dont want Vizquel. He is too old- and his contract sucks. Plus Uribe is better and has better range IMO. I do want Schmidt- and I would deal Contreras for him. Throw in a few prospects and I can see a deal happening. The only problem that comes up is what happens if El-duque and Schmidt both get hurt at the same time? We have BMac as insurance, but who else would come in for an emergency start? I know such a scenario is highly unlikely- but with El-duque and Schmidt's arm problems recently you have to think about that.

[VAfan]

VA, I'm not trashing Vizquel, I actually respect Omar a ton, I'm a pretty big fan of the way he plays the game.  However Juan is a 25 year old shortstop who has more pop in his bat then Omar and at this point has more range then Vizquel and a much better arm.  To answer your question unless a Chavez is available or a player of that capability I leave the offense alone.  Crede and Juan who might not be hitting the cover off the ball have been a huge, huge part of this teams success because they suck everything hit to them and make some outstanding plays.

 

That's a fair position to take. As you can see, I've come to the same view with respect to Crede. Chavez isn't going to happen, and Randa doesn't seem to add enough marginal benefit.

 

What I wonder is how Sabean would see the marginal value of Vizquel v. Uribe. If he values Uribe higher because of age and potential, then wouldn't he more likely take Contreras for Schmidt?

[qwerty]

A fair enough point.  But a trade for Schmidt (that might also include Vizquel) is not viable unless the Giants are willing to take Contreras's (and Uribe's if Vizquel is involved) contract off our hands.  Otherwise, a deal for one or both blows up our carefully planned salary structure. 

 

And do you really believe Contreras or Uribe are critical to team chemistry?  As you can see, I made the argument in the same post that Crede may be because he was home-grown, but I just don't see it for the other guys. 

 

And sure the Sox could have taken Vizquel's guaranteed 3rd year in the offseason.  The reason I think they may now reconsider that choice (and Kalapse I added your name here for the quick line suggesting they wouldn't) is threefold: 1) Uribe seems to have reverted to pre-2004 hitting form, 2) KW now knows this is a postseason team and will consider stretching to make it the best possible postseason team, and 3) Uribe signed for 3 years after Vizquel rejected us, so we are just plugging one 3-year SS in for another.

 

Uribe is one of ozzie's guy i am thinking. Probally wouldn't make him too happy to see him go but i don't know that for sure. Also, we would be plugging in a three year deal for another one while losing 13 years at a primary position that is hard to find really defensive players at. You also have to think uribe has alot s*** load of potential... i know i do anyway.

 

I just don't think vizquel's vizquel puts us over the top and he is not worth uribe. You have to also remember uribe is not old enough for the giants.