The Gigantic all encompassing TRADE THREAD

[Wedge]

Would you mortgage the future for a WS title??? I would, in a heartbeat.  There comes a time when you get one chance to take it all, and you do what is necessary to go the final step.  Look at cubs fans, all they can talk about it what if, what if. I dont want to be content with just making hte playoffs, I want to win it, if it means trading a prospect, then so be it.  Because a prospect is just that, someone who is not proven.  And there are NO cant-miss prospects.  I would trade a future role player for a title any day of the week, hands down.

 

There are NO can't-miss win you the World Series players, either.

[Frankensteiner]

The 2003 Marlins are a very similar story - they made as far as I can tell exactly 1 trade during the year...a week after Todd Hollandsworth went on the DL, they traded Denny Bautista and another pitcher to the Orioles for Jeff Conine, and other than changing managers, that was it for them.  No other trades.  Now, it's not like they didn't have pieces to work with either - let's imagine that the Marlins had decided that they wanted to "Win now" in 2003, and moved a young guy named Miguel Cabrera, who was platooning in left field basically and hitting under .270, to get some added help?  Or lets imagine that they figured they needed a veteran starting pitcher to lead that staff, so they decided to move another young guy named Josh Beckett, a guy who had never pitched more than 107 innings in a season and had never ended up a season even with a winning record.

 

The Marlins traded for Urbina and subsequently made him their new closer. That's a significant move, and on par with the White Sox adding another starter or position player.

[southsideirish71]

Who's to say Schmidt is really any better than Contreras? It's all a crap shoot. Both have the ability to go 7 or 8 innings of dominance, both have the ability to let up 3 runs in 6 innings, and both have the ability to get rocked. Also, Contreras has had a much better year. Schmidt has gotten his ERA down to 4.81 with a few good starts. Contreras' ERA has gone up to 4.15 after a few bad ones. After his start on June 7th, Contreras' ERA was 3.13. Think about that one for a second there. I like our chances with Contreras against Byrd and Wakefield. As for your assessment that you don't like our chances with Garcia/Garland against Schilling/Clement, we can't really assess those two players on the Red Sox at this point (and Garcia and Garland have been pitching just as well as Clement anyways). Schilling has had exactly one good start going back to last season's ALCS on the major league level, and Clement has a history of dominating for stretches and then sucking. We don't really know how they will be pitching by the time the playoffs come around. Anyways, I don't see the problem with one clear edge and 3 toss ups. You're pretty fortunate if you get a pitching matchup in you favor, which is bound to happen with the way our guys have been pitching. The only way we are in trouble then is if we have some really bad luck and loss all of the close games and end up down 3-1. I highly doubt that happens. Our top 3 have shown no signs of faltering. That's the important thing to consider going into the playoffs. Our top two prospects and $10 mil for next year is an awful lot to pay for basically one, perhaps two starts in the playoffs.

 

If Conteras throws strikes he is very good. If he falls in love with his forkball then he will be meat. My only concern with Conteras facing Boston is the history there. Boston owns Contreras.

 

Seattle sat at the trade deadline with 3 possible trades to make their team better in 2001. They passed for the same reasons we are talking about passing. Chemistry. Maybe if they upgraded at one position or had more more pitcher. Who knows.

 

I would rather make a few tweaks than to stand pat.

[ZoomSlowik]

If Conteras throws strikes he is very good.  If he falls in love with his forkball then he will be meat.  My only concern with Conteras facing Boston is the history there.  Boston owns Contreras. 

 

Seattle sat at the trade deadline with 3 possible trades to make their team better in 2001.  They passed for the same reasons we are talking about passing.  Chemistry.  Maybe if they upgraded at one position or had more more pitcher.  Who knows.

 

I would rather make a few tweaks than to stand pat.

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but outside of an unlikely deal for Chavez, I think a major trade does as much harm as good by costing us financial flexibility and young, cheap talent. I agree with Balta, the only way to drastically improve your chances of winning the series is get there more than once (at least in our case).

[Wedge]

Boston owns Contreras. 

 

Prior to 2001, the playoffs owned Randy Johnson. Things change.

 

Seattle sat at the trade deadline with 3 possible trades to make their team better in 2001.  They passed for the same reasons we are talking about passing.  Chemistry.  Maybe if they upgraded at one position or had more more pitcher.  Who knows.

 

My memory is short and that was a long time ago... what were those trades?

[Balta1701]

I would rather make a few tweaks than to stand pat.

There's a difference between a "Few Tweaks" and sending off McCarthy, Uribe, Anderson, Sweeney, Fields, or some combination of those items for a gigantic name (schmidt, Chavez, Oswalt, etc.).

 

Sending off a guy like John Rauch was last year, who may never have a real strong future in the big leagues, in exchange for a small piece of the puzzle this year (i.e. another guy in the bullpen or a backup 1b), is a lot different from most of what's been said on this board.

[ZoomSlowik]

By the way, the 2001 Mariners keep coming up, and I don't really think that's a good comparison. They were playing roughly as well as we were, but their team was built much differently. They're probably more similar to the 2000 Sox than this year's Sox. Their starting staff (at least if I remember it right) was Garcia, Moyer, Piniero, and Halama. Their offense, on the other hand, was fairly potent, with Ichiro at the top and Boone and Martinez hitting well in the middle. This team is not built the same way as ours. I don't see how you could argue that their rotation was in good shape for the playoffs. Our rotation is definitely more potent than theirs, making us better built for success in the playoffs. I also think the teams they faced in the playoffs are much stronger than the teams we would have to face this year.

Edited July 1, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[southsideirish71]

There's a difference between a "Few Tweaks" and sending off McCarthy, Uribe, Anderson, Sweeney, Fields, or some combination of those items for a gigantic name (schmidt, Chavez, Oswalt, etc.).

 

Sending off a guy like John Rauch was last year, who may never have a real strong future in the big leagues, in exchange for a small piece of the puzzle this year (i.e. another guy in the bullpen or a backup 1b), is a lot different from most of what's been said on this board.

 

 

Dont get me wrong. If we could pick up Chavez and Oswalt we would be nuts not to take that shot. I dont think either of them are available, so if thats the case we make a few tweaks.

 

Chavez is a huge upgrade over Crede and Oswalt is a good pitcher also.

[ZoomSlowik]

The Marlins traded for Urbina and subsequently made him their new closer. That's a significant move, and on par with the White Sox adding another starter or position player.

 

The Marlins also didn't have the best record in baseball, or a closer who is 17 for 18 in save situations, or three starters with an ERA under 3.30. They're a team that needed some help in order to get to the playoffs in the first place, and they just barely snuck into the playoffs. Then things started breaking their way.

[Rowand44]

By the way, the 2001 Mariners keep coming up, and I don't really think that's a good comparison. They were playing roughly as well as we were, but their team was built much differently. Their starting staff (at least if I remember it right) was Garcia, Moyer, Piniero, and Halama. Their offense, on the other hand, was fairly potent, with Ichiro at the top and Boone and Martinez hitting well in the middle. This team is not built the same way as ours. I don't see how you could argue that their rotation was in good shape for the playoffs. Our rotation is definitely more potent than theirs, making us better built for success in the playoffs.

Ding, ding, ding. Here's the thing with the Mariners that year, they had a great offense and a great bullpen. Most times when teams dominate the regular season because of a dominate offense they're going to be in some trouble come playoff time. This current sox team already has a fantastic chance to win the whole damn thing because of the 3 pitchers at the top of the rotation. This team is made for the playoffs imo and unless you can get a stud to play 3b or a stud starting pitcher there is just no reason to make a trade just for the sake of making a trade.

[Wedge]

The Marlins also didn't have the best record in baseball, or a closer who is 17 for 18 in save situations, or three starters with an ERA under 3.30. They're a team that needed some help in order to get to the playoffs in the first place, and they just barely snuck into the playoffs. Then things started breaking their way.

 

Additionally, Urbina was somewhat of a risk. He came from the Rangers with an ERA around 4.19.

[Rowand44]

Is Jason Schmidt in his current form going to be an upgrade over Jose Contreras in a playoff series?

DBAHO, that's where our scouts come into play. They saw him pitch his last start if they think his stuff is there and they believe he's going to revert back to previous years form then obviously he is an upgrade over Contreras. I personally would love Jason Schmidt I think you give him a few more starts and you'll see him dominating again but that's jmo.

[DBAHO]

DBAHO, that's where our scouts come into play.  They saw him pitch his last start if they think his stuff is there and they believe he's going to revert back to previous years form then obviously he is an upgrade over Contreras.  I personally would love Jason Schmidt I think you give him a few more starts and you'll see him dominating again but that's jmo.

My thinking is that his stuff is not back yet, so it's not worth making a big deal for him yet. He struggled against the D-Backs giving up 9 hits and really should have given up more than 3 runs. When he's throwing 95-96, he's dominant, when he's throwing 90-91, he's far from it.

[ZoomSlowik]

Actually, Schmidt used to throw more like 97-98, now he is about 3 MPH slower. Still pretty hard, but not his old self, and he probably gets some fastballs hit harder than he used to.

[DBAHO]

Actually, Schmidt used to throw more like 97-98, now he is about 3 MPH slower. Still pretty hard, but not his old self, and he probably gets some fastballs hit harder than he used to.

Here's a timeline on Schmidt's velocity and his last few starts;

 

May 25 - Schmidt was throwing 95 mph early on, which is a very good sign. He also had a terrific changeup. Less encouraging is that he was slipped back into the 92-93 mph range later on and that his curveball was apparently left on the DL for another week.

 

May 29 - Discouraging. Schmidt, who hit 95 mph on occasion in his return Tuesday, was working in the low-90s today, touching 94 mph just a couple of times. His changeup was again good, but it was the only swing-and-miss pitch he had. We remain concerned.

 

Jun 5 - The improved velocity Schmidt showed in his first start back from the DL is no longer there. He was working in the low-90s again tonight, and he still seems afraid to throw his fastball. His shoulder almost certainly is continuing to bother him.

 

Jun 12 - Schmidt struck out seven, but among the six hits he allowed were a homer and three doubles. His velocity is still down, so things just aren't looking good.

 

Jun 17 -  Schmidt didn't seem to have much better velocity tonight, but he finally made some adjustments. Throwing fastballs out of the zone and using his changeup and especially his curveball more than usual, he kept the Tigers off balance all night.

 

Jun 23 - Schmidt didn't sit there all night, but he reached 94 and 95 mph with his fastball at times in a pretty dominant performance.

 

Jun 29 - All three runs scored in the third on Craig Counsell's homer and Troy Glaus' two-run double, but Schmidt was hardly dominant the rest of the way, giving up nine hits and walking three.

[ZoomSlowik]

I hadn't seen those comments. I was referring to his velocity from the last few years, when he was one of the best in the league, not this season when he has been struggling.

[Jabroni]

WSCR 670 The Score is so desperate for any rumor to compete with ESPN 1000. They are reporting that the Dodgers are interested in Carl Everett and then the guy finishes it with, "BUT ARE THE SOX INTERESTED?!?"

Edited July 1, 2005 by Jabroni

[Frank the Tank 35]

WSCR 670 The Score is so desperate for any rumor to compete with ESPN 1000.  They are reporting that the Dodgers are interested in Carl Everett and then the guy finishes it with, "BUT ARE THE SOX INTERESTED?!?"

 

They probably saw it in the Los Angeles newspaper today that said something about DePodesta looking into possible trades. They mentioned Everett's name may be available. Saw it on prosportsdaily.com

[Jabroni]

They probably saw it in the Los Angeles newspaper today that said something about DePodesta looking into possible trades.  They mentioned Everett's name may be available.  Saw it on prosportsdaily.com

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what I'm assuming as well.

[BamaDoc]

We have the option of Contreras or El Duque vs others #4. Do you not think we could play the hot hand and gain some advantaage over other teams #4?

[sayitaintso]

From CBS Sportsline's rumor mill.

 

The Dodgers want a power hitter and have set their sights on several reasonably priced players who might be available in the next few weeks, says the Los Angeles Times They are: Cincinnati's Adam Dunn, Tampa Bay's Aubrey Huff and Carl Everett of the White Sox.

[Kalapse]

From CBS Sportsline's rumor mill.

 

The Dodgers want a power hitter and have set their sights on several reasonably priced players who might be available in the next few weeks, says the Los Angeles Times They are: Cincinnati's Adam Dunn, Tampa Bay's Aubrey Huff and Carl Everett of the White Sox.

Already posted.

 

Not gonna happen.

[Frankensteiner]

From the Cincy Enquirer

Thursday, the day the Sporting News runs a story saying the Reds are trying to trade left fielder Adam Dunn, almost a dozen scouts show up at Great American Ball Park.

 

General manager Dan O'Brien said don't look for a press conference anytime soon.

 

When asked if the Reds are shopping Dunn, O'Brien said: "Negative."

 

He said, in fact, that the Reds aren't shopping anyone at the request of new manager Jerry Narron.

...

Dunn's name likely will come up because he's probably the best the Reds can put on the table. He's 25, already one of the game's top sluggers and he's making only $4.6 million this year.

 

But since he's eligible for arbitration, his salary is likely at least to double for 2006.

 

If the Reds aren't interested in signing him long term, they might be better off trading him.

 

Since the Reds are performing below expectations, there's a good chance their payroll will drop from this year's team record $61.8 million.

 

That would mean someone making big money - Dunn, Sean Casey, Ken Griffey Jr. or Eric Milton - may have to be traded to balance the budget.

 

I know the Sox aren't mentioned, but it would be nice if Kenny could do to the Reds what Hendry did to the Pirates a couple of years back. Getting a package of Dunn, Randa, and a bullpen arm like Ramon Ortiz would be fantastic.

[Kalapse]

From the Cincy Enquirer

 

I know the Sox aren't mentioned, but it would be nice if Kenny could do to the Reds what Hendry did to the Pirates a couple of years back. Getting a package of Dunn, Randa, and a bullpen arm like Ramon Ortiz would be fantastic.

What position does Dunn play for the Sox then this year?

[Frankensteiner]

What position does Dunn play for the Sox then this year?

 

It would necessitate some creativity (i.e. finding a team for Everett). Dunn could then play the Everett role: playing LF, RF, DH, and also 1B. As I mentioned in the game thread, this would alleviate the problem of having the worst hitting team against RHP.