MELTDOWN Thread

[whitesoxin']

I didn't think Prior's stuff looked that great.

Yeah I agree. I thought he was really predictable.

[southsideirish71]

Well when your offense is ranked 20th in the majors in BA just above the mighty royals maybe its a credible thing to question our offense and how it will rate in the post season. We are also 21st in the majors in OBP. This is a problem when it comes to competing against top rate pitching. We are basically the same softball offense as last year with 2 fast guys at the top. If they get on its not a solo homer. If they dont its a solo homer.

[ZoomSlowik]

We didn't beat either of those pitchers, though.  They both s*** on our offense, and we beat their bullpens.

 

That's part of the game, isn't it? Their starts were nullified by equal or superior performances from our own guys. We scored enough runs to keep us in it and won. That's the whole point of the game.

[Milkman delivers]

That's part of the game, isn't it? Their starts were nullified by equal or superior performances from our own guys. We scored enough runs to keep us in it and won. That's the whole point of the game.

 

Come playoff time, I would think a manager would leave a starter in longer than he would in the regular season. During the season, one would have to worry about burning out a guy's arm. In the playoffs, it's the time to throw everything at the other team. Buehrle had to throw 9 almost perfect innings just to keep the team in it. Colon got to leave in the 7th, and their bullpen held us down for about 3 more innings. I imagine Colon would've stuck around in the playoffs and gave it to the bullpen later if need be. And Zambrano was just fresh off the DL and having his pitch count monitored. If not for that, he'd probably stay in and continue dominating.

[southsideirish71]

Here is some more sick stats.

 

We are last in the majors in doubles. This is for a supposed fast team.

2nd to last in triples

We are 28th out of 30 teams in hits.

 

But s*** we still hit a lot of homers. So basically this is the same corpseball offense as last year with some fluff at the top. The numbers dont lie.

[whitesoxin']

Here is some more sick stats.

 

We are last in the majors in doubles.  This is for a supposed fast team. 

2nd to last in triples

We are 28th out of 30 teams in hits.

 

But s*** we still hit a lot of homers.  So basically this is the same corpseball offense as last year with some fluff at the top.  The numbers dont lie.

Just shut up. Or even better, I'll shut you up by ignoring you.

[ZoomSlowik]

Come playoff time, I would think a manager would leave a starter in longer than he would in the regular season.  During the season, one would have to worry about burning out a guy's arm.  In the playoffs, it's the time to throw everything at the other team.  Buehrle had to throw 9 almost perfect innings just to keep the team in it.  Colon got to leave in the 7th, and their bullpen held us down for about 3 more innings.  I imagine Colon would've stuck around in the playoffs and gave it to the bullpen later if need be.  And Zambrano was just fresh off the DL and having his pitch count monitored.  If not for that, he'd probably stay in and continue dominating.

 

And you don't have to worry about blowing out guy's arms in the playoffs? You still don't want to grossly overwork your starters. The ratio isn't really any different. Actually in the playoffs it seems like they are more likely to come out if they are starting to struggle or getting to their upper limits because it is generally a closer game and that game means more. I know I've seen several guys get pulled in the 7th after running into moderate resistance in close games. Most managers would rather have a fresh reliever than a tiring starter no matter who it is. Your bullpens see an awful lot of work in the playoffs. Guys like Foulke and Rivera pitched 3 or 4 times in the ALCS/WS, and that isn't that uncommon.

Edited June 27, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[southsideirish71]

Just shut up. Or even better, I'll shut you up by ignoring you.

 

 

One this is a rant thread, second I could give 2 s***s that you ignore me, and 3 STFU.

[Milkman delivers]

Actually in the playoffs it seems like they are more likely to come out if they are starting to struggle

 

That's the problem right there. Neither one of those examples you mentioned were struggling in their respective games.

[ZoomSlowik]

We've also only had Frank for 17 games, who has a major impact on our offensive efficiency. Not only do we get another effective hitter in the order, but guys like Timo and Ozuna (until Uribe got hurt at least) are making fewer appearances in the lineup, taking out another weaker hitter. We're hitting .286 in June (he came back May 30th) with a .343 OBP, compared to .262 and .326. We've also put up four ten run games since he came off the DL, compared to 2 before. I highly doubt that it is a complete coincidence.

[ZoomSlowik]

That's the problem right there.  Neither one of those examples you mentioned were struggling in their respective games.

 

That's because you conveniently cut off my quote. Both players had elevated pitch counts because they both throw a lot of pitches (Colon already had 114, Zambrano had 108). And as I said, in close games most managers would rather bring in one of their better relievers than put in a starter that has thrown a lot of pitches in that game. As for the struggling thing, I'm not talking about allowing runs, I'm talking about walking a guy on four pitchers or allowing a hard hit single or two before they get yanked. I'm too lazy to check the box scores, and it doesn't really affect the argument anyways. If it's a 1-0, 2-1, or 3-2 type of game, you're not that likely to see a starter come back out. There are some exceptions (especially if the pen sucks, not the case with most of these teams), but you don't see too many 8 or 9 inning starts in the playoffs. Anyways, odds are our pitching will stop teams from getting more than 4 runs, meaning we'll be in the game the whole way and quite possibly in the lead, and that's assuming little to no offense, which isn't always the case.

Edited June 27, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[Milkman delivers]

That's because you conveniently cut off my quote. Both players had elevated pitch counts because they both throw a lot of pitches (Colon already had 114, Zambrano had 108). And as I said, in close games most managers would rather bring in one of their better relievers than put in a starter that has thrown a lot of pitches in that game. As for the struggling thing, I'm not talking about allowing runs, I'm talking about walking a guy on four pitchers or allowing a hard hit single or two before they get yanked. I'm too lazy to check the box scores, and it doesn't really affect the argument anyways. If it's a 1-0, 2-1, or 3-2 type of game, you're not that likely to see a starter come back out. There are some exceptions (especially if the pen sucks, not the case with most of these teams), but you don't see too many 8 or 9 inning starts in the playoffs. Anyways, odds are our pitching will stop teams from getting more than 4 runs, meaning we'll be in the game the whole way and quite possibly in the lead, and that's assuming little to no offense, which isn't always the case.

 

We can argue this forever, but we're probably not going to change each others' minds. I believe that other teams' top guys flat out dominate us. I've made my conclusion from seeing it happen. The only guy I can remember us having any luck with was Harden.

[Capn12]

Blah blah blah....attack the players, attack the teams, DO NOT attack each other. That is all.

[Jabroni]

I didn't think Prior's stuff looked that great.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Our hitters sure thought it did.

 

Just shut up. Or even better, I'll shut you up by ignoring you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But his numbers are right.

Edited June 27, 2005 by Jabroni

[Iguana]

I guess no one wants to give credit to a hall of fame pitcher and a damn good up and comer? Maddox and Prior ARE DAMN GOOD!! good pitching beats good hitting any day of the week.

[jackie hayes]

Here is some more sick stats.

 

We are last in the majors in doubles.  This is for a supposed fast team. 

2nd to last in triples

We are 28th out of 30 teams in hits.

 

But s*** we still hit a lot of homers.  So basically this is the same corpseball offense as last year with some fluff at the top.  The numbers dont lie.

Not that it explains all the difference, but the Cell is known as a bad double/triple park, that's part of the reason.

 

It's been said here many times that we are not a fast team, nor are we any faster than last year, really. Pods is the only "speed" guy, Iguchi's got decent wheels, but you also bring in Sloth Pierzynski and Dye for Olivo and Carlos, plus Harris sitting, etc. Point is, I don't know who "supposes" that this is a fast team. Not many posters here, anyway.

 

Home runs are good, it's just silly to jump from that to "corpseball". In fact, we also lead the AL in sac hits and sac flies. So are those to blame too?

[KevHead0881]

Well, I haven't checked this site in a few days, but I expected to see a thread like this today.

 

I refuse to get upset about these past two games. They were more important to the Cubs. I'll be more upset if we play like this against the Twins. Of course, I'd like to mop the floor with the Cubs, but this year is different. As the saying goes, we've got bigger fish to fry. The worst thing that came out of the past two games is that we lost a measly game in the standings.

 

We are still a damn good team. And even damn good teams have stretches where they don't look so good. As long as the players put these losses behind them (which should be easy considering that these games mean a lot more to the fans than the players), we should be fine.

 

I'm sure some may think I'm being too optimistic, but hell, we are 50-24 and leading the division by 9.5 games. There is a lot to be optimistic about.

[mreye]

See my sig.

[knightni]

The good news...

 

The Sox won't be facing Prior in the playoffs.

 

 

/Cubs Suck

[Rex Kickass]

As long as we average 2 out of 3 games won, I don't care how crappy we play.

[southsideirish71]

The good news...

 

The Sox won't be facing Prior in the playoffs.

/Cubs Suck

 

Just Schilling/Colon/Clement/Miller types.

[greasywheels121]

With the 3 8 game win streaks, mathmaically we have won every series, correct?

 

Basically. Our winning percentage right now is .676, which is a little better than 2 out of 3.

[TheBigHurt]

You know, I was thinking, with the year the Sox have had so far, they would finally be able to do 2 things:

 

1. Finally beat the Cubs in BOTH series.

1. Finally sweep the Cubs in at least one of the series.

 

Neither of those things happened, and I'm quite shocked they didn't. Both Maddux and Prior were on the mound for only 6 innings, and yet we still didn't pull anything off after that. When Carl hit into that double play yesterday, I'm sitting there going "I don't f***ing believe THIS........"

Edited June 27, 2005 by TheBigHurt

[TheBigHurt]

LOL, easy to do when ur plans against the Cubbies don't work out as good as u expect them to.

[TheBigHurt]

U didn't put it very bluntly, lol. All I'm saying is it would;ve been nice to beat them with authority this year. Of all years you think this would have been the time.