Kalapse Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:03 PM) note to soxtalk -- this is not, i repeat, NOT, rotisserie baseball. Then what do you go by when judging a pitchers performance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 03:03 PM) note to soxtalk -- this is not, i repeat, NOT, rotisserie baseball. Ok, well what would you like to look at era?? K's?? What?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:04 PM) Then what do you go by when judging a pitchers performance? Wins duh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseysox Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:04 PM) Ok, well what would you like to look at era?? K's?? What?? well, with relievers, it's all about how many runners you allow to score, be it yours or someone elses. and the only way you're getting in ahead of a closer is if you are perfect in the inherited runners scored department. because if it's close, i value a save a little more highly than a hold. so wickman, who has 21 saves and a damn good era, is getting in ahead of cliff politte, who pitches the 7th and 8th and has a damn good era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:57 PM) All-Star pitchers Mark Buerhle Jon Garland Kenny Rogers Roy Halladay Bartolo Colon Matt Clement Johan Santana Mariano Rivera BJ Ryan Eddie Guardado Dustin Hermanson Bob Wickman Alright. Who gets thrown off the island so the Holy Lord of Middle Relief can pitch in the All-Star Game? WICKMAN!?!?!?! WICKMAN!?!?!?! WICKMAN!?!?!?! Yor gonna tell me Politte is not better than Wickman? Politte is 5-0 and has a 1 something ERA. Edited June 28, 2005 by SoxFan1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseysox Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 so far, i've gotten one response that said wickman should stay home on my list. since kalapse finds that laughable, and we disagree on everything, i'm waiting on another guy who shouldn't be on there. anyone else have anything to say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseysox Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:08 PM) WICKMAN!?!?!?! WICKMAN!?!?!?! WICKMAN!?!?!?! you got me. i can't fight that logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:07 PM) well, with relievers, it's all about how many runners you allow to score, be it yours or someone elses. and the only way you're getting in ahead of a closer is if you are perfect in the inherited runners scored department. because if it's close, i value a save a little more highly than a hold. so wickman, who has 21 saves and a damn good era, is getting in ahead of cliff politte, who pitches the 7th and 8th and has a damn good era. Wickman's 2.79 ERA is not damn good, it's good but not damn good. Take a look at BJ Ryan(1.82), Gaurdado(1.67) and Rivera(0.91) those are the types of ERAs a closer is supposed to have not a high 2. I'm going to go against myself and say f*** Wickman. I hadn't seen his full stats. He can stay home. Edited June 28, 2005 by Kalapse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 05:08 PM) so far, i've gotten one response that said wickman should stay home on my list. since kalapse finds that laughable, and we disagree on everything, i'm waiting on another guy who shouldn't be on there. anyone else have anything to say? Yes, I do. Why the f*** are you acting like you are Jesus? Your word is final!?! BTW, Saves = Overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseysox Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:10 PM) Wickman's 2.79 ERA is not damn good, it's good but not damn good. Take a look at BJ Ryan(1.82), Gaurdado(1.67) and Rivera(0.91) those are the types of ERAs a closer is supposed to have not a high 2. I'm going to go against myself and say f*** Wickman. I hadn't seen his full stats. He can stay home. alright, well since we're back on ERA, crain goes in front of politte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseysox Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 and not for nothing, wickman is the closer in the best bullpen in baseball. whether you think he should go or not doesn't matter, because he IS going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 03:09 PM) you got me. i can't fight that logic. Here's the logic: Politte has an era of more then a run and a half lower then Wickmans, less hits allowed, less bb/9, more k's/9. Bascially every single stat Cliff has been better in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:13 PM) and not for nothing, wickman is the closer in the best bullpen in baseball. whether you think he should go or not doesn't matter, because he IS going. Indians were suppose to have an awful bullpen... i was told this by everyone and they thought i was crazy for thinking other wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(qwerty @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:14 PM) Indians were suppose to have an awful bullpen... i was told this by everyone and they thought i was crazy for thinking other wise. Youngstown Indians seemed to think they had a good bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 05:13 PM) and not for nothing, wickman is the closer in the best bullpen in baseball. whether you think he should go or not doesn't matter, because he IS going. Are you f***ing kidding me? 1st off, Cleveland does NOT have the best bullpen in baseball. 2ndly, Politte > Crain. Only guy I would say is more deserved than Politte is Rhodes but I haven't comparted the #'s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(qwerty @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 03:14 PM) Indians were suppose to have an awful bullpen... i was told this by everyone and they thought i was crazy for thinking other wise. You also thought Hermey was gonna be bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:16 PM) 1st off, Cleveland does NOT have the best bullpen in baseball. Yes, yes they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:16 PM) You also thought Hermey was gonna be bad His era will be around four at the end of the year. He has alot of things against him now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:12 PM) alright, well since we're back on ERA, crain goes in front of politte. God Damn it. Look at all the stats of the top closers, WHIP, BAA, OPSA, K/9 Wickman is behind in all of them. You're the one who brought up ERA, I showed you his ERA sucks compared to other AL closers. Politte's stats> Crain's Politte's stats> Wickman Top three closers in the ALs stats> Wickman. You have absolutley no argument here. Edited June 28, 2005 by Kalapse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:07 PM) well, with relievers, it's all about how many runners you allow to score, be it yours or someone elses. and the only way you're getting in ahead of a closer is if you are perfect in the inherited runners scored department. because if it's close, i value a save a little more highly than a hold. so wickman, who has 21 saves and a damn good era, is getting in ahead of cliff politte, who pitches the 7th and 8th and has a damn good era. Politte has an ERA in the 1's, and, need it be mentioned again, has allowed 4 of 24 inherited runners to score. And if the most specific you are going to get on ERA is "damn good", you are being far, far too general. Both Mark Buehrle and Roger Clemens have "damn good" ERA's, but Clemens has clearly been superior to Mark in that category this year, putting up an unbelievably low ERA of 1.51, while Buehrle is at 2.48. Politte has been superior to Wickman in all categories this year except saves. It should also be noted that Crain has allowed more runs(5) than Politte(4), though they have both allowed the same amount of earned runs. Politte's RA(run average) of 1.23 is better than Crain's RA of 1.30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(qwerty @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 03:18 PM) His era will be around four at the end of the year. He has alot of things against him now. Are we going to make another sig bet?? Because you're already going to owe me one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseysox Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:16 PM) Are you f***ing kidding me? 1st off, Cleveland does NOT have the best bullpen in baseball. 2ndly, Politte > Crain. Only guy I would say is more deserved than Politte is Rhodes but I haven't comparted the #'s. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggreg...128&season=2005 the indians have a bullpen era of 2.78. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:20 PM) http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggreg...128&season=2005 the indians have a bullpen era of 2.78. pwn3d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:19 PM) Are we going to make another sig bet?? Because you're already going to owe me one. Already have a bet with wite on it and rowand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:19 PM) Politte has an ERA in the 1's, and, need it be mentioned again, has allowed 4 of 24 inherited runners to score. And if the most specific you are going to get on ERA is "damn good", you are being far, far too general. Both Mark Buehrle and Roger Clemens have "damn good" ERA's, but Clemens has clearly been superior to Mark in that category this year, putting up an unbelievably low ERA of 1.51, while Buehrle is at 2.48. Politte has been superior to Wickman in all categories this year except saves. It should also be noted that Crain has allowed more runs(5) than Politte(4), though they have both allowed the same amount of earned runs. Politte's RA(run average) of 1.23 is better than Crain's RA of 1.30 There's no point in trying to convince him. He refuses to look at all the stats. And just keeps repeating himself, the argument has become pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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