greg775 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 I watched most of the Sat night game on TV. Garland pitched well. He pitched well enough to again resemble a good major league pitcher. Do you folks think the Sox simply have to throw Garland out there every fifth day for the next 12 years and he's going to at some point prove dominant? He's too good to trade me thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 I watched most of the Sat night game on TV. Garland pitched well. He pitched well enough to again resemble a good major league pitcher. Do you folks think the Sox simply have to throw Garland out there every fifth day for the next 12 years and he's going to at some point prove dominant? He's too good to trade me thinks. garland is wearing out his welcome.... me thinks if he doesnt do it this time around hes done...........its kinda like the lee break out year thing... weve heard it for too long now..........sooner or later its gotta happen or we get over it and move on........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Only time will tell. Maybe he was struggling with command or something that we don't know about. Maybe he had butterflies, maybe he felt he was getting squeezed by the umps early on. He might need a few games to get going. Hell, he might just suck and get lucky sometimes. The only way we will know is if he can put together a string of wins and show that he knows what he is doing. I personally like Jon and think that he is will need to put it together to help us make a run. Hopefully he has found his touch a little and can put together some nice starts for us. He really needs to pitch well and forget everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 28, 2003 Author Share Posted April 28, 2003 Good point hotsoxchick but if we let him go aren't we doomed to seeing him become Tom Seaver revisited? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 *cough*Kip Wells*cough* I say hold on to him, i rather see him suck as a White Sox then dominant somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Good point hotsoxchick but if we let him go aren't we doomed to seeing him become Tom Seaver revisited? just as mac was so kind to point out to us.. yes were doomed to see him thrive elsewhere, or he could suck too... just depends .. but whatever the case may be he needs to step it up here or hes done....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 i say we still go with JG - he pitched well on saturday and the ball on the ass pitch may what he needed and the team needed to put JG's head in the game and eliminate the deer in headlights thing - I think this is his start to a consistent if not hot rest of the year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 I'm with you cwsox. Good call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 well thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 im not willing to give up on garland yet...im not a big fan of garland's but i couldnt take another klips wells situation..but for this year if he cant pitch with some consistency he either goes to the bullpen or charlotte...we cant live with his growing pains and expect to win the division too...his last start was great but it was against the worst hitting team in the AL (i dont consider the tigers as major league team )....he will have to show me something against the tougher teams out west before id pencil him in all year long ...he needs about 4 or 5 more consecutive good starts and get that era down under 4 before ill rest easy with him on the mound... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 I watched most of the Sat night game on TV. Garland pitched well. He pitched well enough to again resemble a good major league pitcher. Do you folks think the Sox simply have to throw Garland out there every fifth day for the next 12 years and he's going to at some point prove dominant? He's too good to trade me thinks. Jon Garland will never be dominant. He doesnt have overpowering stuff, and hes mentally weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Garland's learning curve is a little different than your usual pitcher. You are talking about a guy who was drafted out of HS at 18 yrs old and rushed to the majors. He has been learning things at the majors that he should have been learning at a much more relaxed pace in the minors. Up here he is under the micoscope for every start, which makes it much harder to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 I agree with everyones point but, basically, if Garland stays inconsistent, we have to do something about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 I agree with everyones point but, basically, if Garland stays inconsistent, we have to do something about it! of course if he stays inconsistent but a lot oif posters have made some wise comments about JG in this thread,a nd I think we saw his coming of age event on Saturday night. Like MB, he did not get flustered when early difficulty - and then he took action with the HBP - I think JG has finally arrived. Or maybe that is my hope. But I hope that I am right because he is going to pitch again his next time in the rotation and I would rather that I am right, that he has at last turned the corner, than want more inconsistency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 So true CW. Especially since Jon will be facing a team from the west. I would hope we deal with them better than previous years. Hopefully our staff can put together a nice string of starts against some good teams and prove that we are for real. I am really feeling that JG may have turned a corner too. Call it a passage into manhood. The guy stood up for his teammate and didn't back down when that pussy pointed his bat at him. I really liked what I saw from him. to Jon Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 I like our pitching coach and am looking forward to good to great things from him. As I said on another thread Garland has frustrated me greatly. Some real good posts here as usual. I do question Garlands mental toughness. When your back is to the wall some pitchers are just able to reach back and find that something extra. I remember that steely glare of Bob Gibson when the game was on the line. Another thing, and I suppose some may tell me I'm full of s*** but I'll say it anyway. I'm so sick of this anal retentive pitch count crap. Pitching is so specialized today that if a young pitcher is starting to get in trouble and he is in the 80, 90, 100 pitch count range many get that little boy lost look on their face. Their looking for help from the cavalry instead of getting a set of cojones and reaching back for that proverbial something extra. Garland doesn't have flame thrower stuff, but when he's on it's good enough for him to be a successful no 3 man in a good rotation. Do it already John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 28, 2003 Author Share Posted April 28, 2003 Jon Garland will never be dominant. He doesnt have overpowering stuff, and hes mentally weak. I have seen him pitch on TV where he's appeared dominant to me. That's why I hate to see him traded and become another Kip. As far as the mental makeup, like somebody said before if he is a headcase and has no hope of improving in that regard and our coaches know this, then I'd agree to trade him. But only if there is no hope upstairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjmarte Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Garland's learning curve is a little different than your usual pitcher. You are talking about a guy who was drafted out of HS at 18 yrs old and rushed to the majors. He has been learning things at the majors that he should have been learning at a much more relaxed pace in the minors. Up here he is under the micoscope for every start, which makes it much harder to learn. Exactly. And he is still just a young pup. He'll prove BMR wrong one of these days, whether it is with the Sox or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Exactly. And he is still just a young pup. He'll prove BMR wrong one of these days, whether it is with the Sox or not. cant say im as confident in garland becoming dominant as i am in kip wells...both came up and struggled together but you can see kip has about 5mph on his fastball over jon..thats huge... i might even have more faith in stewart..there is something about crafty lefties that work..you never hear of a crafty righty being dominant...at least i cant think of one..outside of maddux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 He came up in 2000....when he was 20. To make a comparison....many are saying...and many are agreeing...that the Tigers pitcher Jeremy Bonderman was brought up waaaaay to early....I'm one of the many who agrees. The way it looks....Bonderman will need atleast 3-5 years to develop at the majors...or atleast quite a while. Garland's IS in his 4th year of work at the major league level....but folks, chill out. He's still 23....how old was Kip when we dealt him - 24 or 25? Kipper broke out when he was at that age with Pittsburgh this past season. I prefer waiting to see what the hell happens....instead of making a premature evaluation. Baggs....I like Garland as a dominant pitcher because of his sinker...it is a pretty damn good sinker. And another crafty righty....how about Rick Reed? He's got nothing on his pitches....no killer curve, a high 80s fastball....yet he still won 15 games last year and had an ERA below 4.00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 I don't think Garland will ever truely dominate but if he can get his act together I can see him as a good number two or three starter, basically a poor mans greg maddux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 He came up in 2000....when he was 20. To make a comparison....many are saying...and many are agreeing...that the Tigers pitcher Jeremy Bonderman was brought up waaaaay to early....I'm one of the many who agrees. The way it looks....Bonderman will need atleast 3-5 years to develop at the majors...or atleast quite a while. Garland's IS in his 4th year of work at the major league level....but folks, chill out. He's still 23....how old was Kip when we dealt him - 24 or 25? Kipper broke out when he was at that age with Pittsburgh this past season. I prefer waiting to see what the hell happens....instead of making a premature evaluation. Baggs....I like Garland as a dominant pitcher because of his sinker...it is a pretty damn good sinker. And another crafty righty....how about Rick Reed? He's got nothing on his pitches....no killer curve, a high 80s fastball....yet he still won 15 games last year and had an ERA below 4.00. i wouldnt call rick reed dominate..im not saying garland cant be a successful pitcher and im not giving up on him..im just not as confident in himmas i am in other starters we have had come through the system..hopefully he proves me wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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