Miracle being attributed to JPII

[southsider2k5]

This could help him on his road to Sainthood.

 

http://www.nbc5.com/irresistible/4659988/d...382&dppid=65192

[Rex Kickass]

I believe you need two miracles but its really just a matter of jumping through the hoops before he's declared a saint.

[FlaSoxxJim]

I believe you need two miracles but its really just a matter of jumping through the hoops before he's declared a saint.

Three, I think.

[Steff]

Maybe just to me... but if he's still jumping through hoops in his condition.. that should be automatic sainthood.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I know.. weak.. but mildly humerous... kinda.

[Wong & Owens]

Whatever the number, I'm sure enough people with bulls*** stories like this one will surface in order to fill the quota.

Edited June 28, 2005 by Wong & Owens

[Nokona]

Is it bad i thought we were talking about Jurassic Park 2?

[CanOfCorn]

Mysteriously, I remain Jewish after the death of JPII. There you go. Another Festivus Miracle!!!

[Balta1701]

During his career as Pope, JPII dramatically lowered the qualifications for sainthood...it seems like in most cases people are just making things up as miracles, he confirmed I believe more saints during his reign than during either all of or most of the church's history beforehand.

 

Makes perfect sense that people would try to figure out some way to make a saint out of the man who made it easier to be a saint.

[mreye]

Whatever the number, I'm sure enough people with bulls*** stories like this one will surface in order to fill the quota.

Nice. Very classy.

[sox4lifeinPA]

hmm...for some reason I thought we were ALL saints....

 

 

oh yeah, that's right, here it is:

 

 

1 Corinthians 1:2 "To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their {Lord} and ours"

[Wong & Owens]

Nice. Very classy.

 

 

On behalf of Delusional Colombians for the Sainthood of PJPII everywhere, this woman thanks you.

[Yoda]

Is it bad i thought we were talking about Jurassic Park 2?

 

Same here.

[JUGGERNAUT]

This is to wierd. From bone marrow disease to a spectacular recovery overnight? Miracle aside we need to know why this happened.

 

Is there no trace of the disease left? How often have such people recovered from such a disease overnight? Even if God did work a miracle here on her behalf there must be some scientific evidence as to how he did. I don't believe he just wiggles his nose like Bewitched & poof everything's good. He is far too great a mathematician for that.

 

The first step I beieve is for the Church to validate whether or not this constitutes a true miracle. Which is to say the why can not be explained by modern science. We might still be able to understand the how though.

[Milkman delivers]

During his career as Pope, JPII dramatically lowered the qualifications for sainthood...it seems like in most cases people are just making things up as miracles, he confirmed I believe more saints during his reign than during either all of or most of the church's history beforehand.

 

Makes perfect sense that people would try to figure out some way to make a saint out of the man who made it easier to be a saint.

 

John Paul II was a saint. Let's not belittle him by basically inferring that he made the requirements less strict in order to become a saint himself one day.

[FlaSoxxJim]

John Paul II was a saint.  Let's not belittle him by basically inferring that he made the requirements less strict in order to become a saint himself one day.

By many accounts, JP2 was a very good person, but the fact was he did make sweeping changes to the canonization procedure in the early part of his papacy.

 

As for the miracle issues, first I checked and wino was right - you only need two miracles total (or one miracle plus martyrdom) to be considered. I had thought that the initial documented miracle leading to beatification was distinct from the two needed to be canonized, but I was wrong and that first miracle casrries over.

 

As for the beatification question, by the Vatican's own stipulation the Celina Kammerer case might not warrant consideration because her prayers were to God and not to the deceased pontiff. The Vatican stipulates that the miracle is supposed to take place as a result of a specific petition to the candidate, and not to God.

 

What is missing in the fast-track process here is the perspective gained by letting several years pass before the question of canonization is taken up. JP2's enormous worldwide popularity in life should not be the driving force behind the canonization push because the pressure to canonize even if documented miracles are lacking will be very great.

[Rex Kickass]

That's kind of weird to me because the prayers to a deceased person seem to be in violation with the first commandment. One thing about the Catholic Church that I've never understood.

[FlaSoxxJim]

That's kind of weird to me because the prayers to a deceased person seem to be in violation with the first commandment. One thing about the Catholic Church that I've never understood.

Oh, yeah, the Cult of Rome's fascination with the Blessed Virgin and all of the saints certainly crosses the lines into idolotry in the eyes of lots of Protestent denominations.

[Queen Prawn]

The way I was taught in grammar school was...how do I word this... that we pray to the saints to get them to go to bat for us to get God's help, so to speak. We aren't praying for them to heal/help us, but that they intercede on our behalf to God...that sounds clumsy, but I can't think of a better wording.

 

I don't know if all Catholic grammar schools taught that way, but that is how mine did. Heck, maybe my school was doing a snow job on us when explaining that lol.

[Soxy]

The way I was taught in grammar school was...how do I word this... that we pray to the saints to get them to go to bat for us to get God's help, so to speak.  We aren't praying for them to heal/help us, but that they intercede on our behalf to God...that sounds clumsy, but I can't think of a better wording. 

 

I don't know if all Catholic grammar schools taught that way, but that is how mine did.  Heck, maybe my school was doing a snow job on us when explaining that lol.

I think the actual dogmatic term is that they're intercessors (sp?) for people...

[RibbieRubarb]

Same here. 

 

Same here.

[Soxy]

Vatican might call Pope John Paul II a martyr

 

Vatican May Declare John Paul II a Martyr

 

By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 57 minutes ago

 

ROME -

Vatican officials no longer are dismissing outright the notion that

Pope John Paul II could be declared a martyr, a step that could remove the need for a confirmed miracle to beatify the late pontiff and make it easier for him to become a saint.

 

Cardinal Jose Saraiva Martins, prefect of the Congregation for the Causes of Saints, said Friday it was up to groups of theological experts to decide if the May 13, 1981, attempt on John Paul's life — as well as his long, public suffering before he died — warranted a declaration of martyrdom.

 

"In a technical, theological, juridical and canonical sense, the martyr gives his life for the faith," Saraiva Martins said in response to questions at a news conference, according to the Apcom news agency.

 

"We have to verify the motive for the attempt on the life of (Karol) Woytyla. And this will be the work of theologians."

 

Ever since

Pope Benedict XVI announced May 13 that he was putting John Paul on the fast track to be beatified, questions have swirled about whether he could be declared a martyr. Doing so would remove the need for the Vatican to confirm that a miracle attributed to his intercession had occurred after his April 2 death — a necessary step for beatification.

 

The Vatican would still need to confirm that a miracle occurred after his beatification for John Paul to be declared a saint.

 

Church officials had initially rejected outright any suggestion that the 1981 assassination attempt could be the basis for a martyrdom declaration since John Paul lived for almost another 24 years.

 

They also noted that other candidates for beatification and sainthood had also suffered ordinary illnesses at the end of their lives but were not declared martyrs.

 

John Paul suffered from Parkinson's disease for many years. According to his death certificate, he died of blood poisoning and the collapse of his blood vessels after suffering from organ failure brought on by a urinary tract infection.

 

However, Cardinal Camillo Ruini appeared to have been setting the stage for a possible martyrdom declaration Tuesday when he formally opened the beatification cause for John Paul.

 

During his remarks at the end of the service, Ruini said there was a "decisive" link between John Paul and Jesus Christ based on blood.

 

"John Paul truly spilled his blood in St. Peter's Square on May 13, 1981, and then again, not just his blood but he offered his life during the long years of his illness," Ruini said.

 

"In the end, his suffering and his death, his silent blessing from his window at the end of Easter Mass, were for all of humanity an extraordinary and efficient testimony of Jesus Christ killed and resurrected, of the Christian significance of suffering, death and the force of salvation.

 

"The days of his funeral became for Rome and the world days of extraordinary unity, reconciliation and opening of the soul to God," Ruini said.

 

John Paul beatified and canonized hundreds of martyrs during his 26-year papacy. In fact, of the 1,338 people he beatified, 1,032 were martyrs. Of the 482 people he elevated to sainthood, 480 were martyrs.

 

One of the people he canonized was Maximilian Kolbe, a Polish priest who traded his life for that of a married man at Auschwitz in 1941. He was beatified under normal procedures in 1971. John Paul canonized him in 1982, announcing that he would be venerated as a martyr.

 

At the time some theologians questioned the move, since Kolbe didn't strictly die for the church. Experts have raised similar questions concerning the case of John Paul, since some say the 1981 assassination attempt was provoked by John Paul's support of the Solidarity labor movement battling the communist government in his native Poland. That would make the motive of the gunman political, rather than religious.