How I learned to keep worrying

[Guest JimH]

They are hitting a lot of homers and striking out a lot.  Wouldn't that indicate that they are in fact swinging for the fences?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What's to indicate they are trying to swing for the fences? Just because you say so?

 

In answer to your question ... no. That they're hitting home runs and striking out more than we'd like doesn't mean they're swinging for the fences. First of all, Guillen wouldn't let guys do that, he has been consistent with saying if guys don't want to play the right way, they are outta here. That's been proven by the fact several guys aren't here from last year.

 

Second, when I see strikeouts I'm seeing them mostly on defensive swings with two strikes, they are trying to protect the plate. I have not seen a whole lot of huge uppercut swings for strike three, ala Russel Branyon, Richie Sexson or dare i say Carlos Lee. Where I see them trying to drive the ball is on hitters counts, and that's what they should do. It is taking advantage of mistakes.

 

Third, I am seeing a lot of gap hitting. Dye is doing it a lot, so is AJP, Carl Everett in particular. Iguchi and Podsednik are constantly going the other way, almost too much in my book. The approach most of these guys take is the complete antithesis of overswinging and going for the HR.

 

Lastly ... just because a pitcher is mediocre doesn't mean they don't have great days. Maroth was changing speeds with aplomb yesterday in the first four innings you've been b****ing about. He has historically been mediocre but he's a major league pitcher for a reason, he knows what he's doing and was in a rhythm. You do not give enough credit to the other pitchers, in your mind it is always our hitters fault. That's simply ignoring 1/2 of the equation. The Sox strung a few hits together in the 5th but you claim they are relying on the HR, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. They did the same thing in the 9th and pushed across a run. Even in the 13 inning game, Inge made a few great catches when the Sox hit the ball hard. You need to consider, one of the reasons they are 50+ wins is because they are trying very hard to play the game the right way, which means not swinging for HR's when it's not called for.

 

No one will change your mind, but every few days I find the need to say that a few of you use this board as your personal frustration dumping ground, and there are other people who have grown tired of it. Nothing personal but IMO you guys jump to conclusions as if you know more than the coaching staff.

[Jabroni]

Why not??  They've done it all year, it's not going to magically go away.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not saying that we will be facing the Flubs in the playoffs but they sure didn't do it against the Cubs' top pitchers this past weekend.

Edited July 1, 2005 by Jabroni

[Jabroni]

What's to indicate they are trying to swing for the fences?  Just because you say so?

 

In answer to your question ... no.  That they're hitting home runs and striking out more than we'd like doesn't mean they're swinging for the fences.  First of all, Guillen wouldn't let guys do that, he has been consistent with saying if guys don't want to play the right way, they are outta here.  That's been proven by the fact several guys aren't here from last year.

 

Second, when I see strikeouts I'm seeing them mostly on defensive swings with two strikes, they are trying to protect the plate.  I have not seen a whole lot of huge uppercut swings for strike three, ala Russel Branyon, Richie Sexson or dare i say Carlos Lee.  Where I see them trying to drive the ball is on hitters counts, and that's what they should do.  It is taking advantage of mistakes.

 

Third, I am seeing a lot of gap hitting.  Dye is doing it a lot, so is AJP, Carl Everett in particular.  Iguchi and Podsednik are constantly going the other way, almost too much in my book.  The approach most of these guys take is the complete antithesis of overswinging and going for the HR.

 

Lastly ... just because a pitcher is mediocre doesn't mean they don't have great days.  Maroth was changing speeds with aplomb yesterday in the first four innings you've been b****ing about.  He has historically been mediocre but he's a major league pitcher for a reason, he knows what he's doing and was in a rhythm.  You do not give enough credit to the other pitchers, in your mind it is always our hitters fault.  That's simply ignoring 1/2 of the equation.  The Sox strung a few hits together in the 5th but you claim they are relying on the HR, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.  They did the same thing in the 9th and pushed across a run.  Even in the 13 inning game, Inge made a few great catches when the Sox hit the ball hard.  You need to consider, one of the reasons they are 50+ wins is because they are trying very hard to play the game the right way, which means not swinging for HR's when it's not called for.

 

No one will change your mind, but every few days I find the need to say that a few of you use this board as your personal frustration dumping ground, and there are other people who have grown tired of it.  Nothing personal but IMO you guys jump to conclusions as if you know more than the coaching staff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lots of strikeouts, lots of homers, and ranked last in the MLB in doubles and triples. I think that's pretty valid and curious data.

[Rowand44]

So, nobody wants to discuss this ^ at all?  Seems like a better topic than arguing back and forth about offense that will just end like all the other arguments have ended...with nobody swaying the other side.

Has anyone mentioned we have more wins this year then the dbacks had all of last season.

[LosMediasBlancas]

You're a badass to make that bold prediction.  I salute you.  

 

I'm a believer and if you're a believer, it partly means thinking you can win against the odds. If you ask most 'experts' we're probably the 5th most talented team in the AL (not talking about wins and losses here), so we will be the underdog in the post season, not matter who we face. The Sox might as well get used to playing and winning the 'not supposed to win' games.

[southsideirish71]

Lots of strikeouts, lots of homers, and ranked last in the MLB in doubles and triples.  I think that's pretty valid and curious data.

 

Thats Crazy Talk, our guys are hitting the ball to all fields and using defensive swings on 2 strikes. Stats dont tell the story

[Rowand44]

Thats Crazy Talk, our guys are hitting the ball to all fields and using defensive swings on 2 strikes.  Stats dont tell the story

What about 9th in baseball in runs scored??? You guys make this offense out to suck when in all honesty some of you guys are just spoiled with this team, they're so good and you just expect the hitting to be perfect, good pitching will shut down good hitting any day of the week and it happens with every team not just us. As I said in the game thread yesterday for the last few games the sox offense has been slumping but everytime they've had a little slump they've broke out of it so quickly. The offense is fine, it's not the best in baseball but they get every clutch hit and they score when the have to, period.

[Spiff]

No one will change your mind, but every few days I find the need to say that a few of you use this board as your personal frustration dumping ground, and there are other people who have grown tired of it.  Nothing personal but IMO you guys jump to conclusions as if you know more than the coaching staff.

 

I agree with everything else you said, but this is the most important part I think. When Jason created this board he wasn't thinking, gee I'd like to make a place where people could just bash everything the Sox do or don't do everyday while other people actually try and have meaningful discussions.

 

I only read a few posts in the game thread (which is more than I've probably read in a few weeks combined) and they were ridiculous. People b****ing about how this team sucks and the best record is a fluke and we can't hit s***ty pitching etc. ENOUGH. The constant negativity of a few people on this board has ruined the game threads to the point where I don't even like to read them anymore. Instead of interesting discussion on the best team in baseball we get "They suck, all they do is swing for the fences" "Here comes Shingo to f*** it up" "Ozzie is an idiot for not putting in (player x)".

 

I'm f***ing tired of it. You kiddies want to b**** about everything on the internet, go make a livejournal.

[Jabroni]

What about 9th in baseball in runs scored???  You guys make this offense out to suck when in all honesty some of you guys are just spoiled with this team, they're so good and you just expect the hitting to be perfect, good pitching will shut down good hitting any day of the week and it happens with every team not just us.  As I said in the game thread yesterday for the last few games the sox offense has been slumping but everytime they've had a little slump they've broke out of it so quickly.  The offense is fine, it's not the best in baseball but they get every clutch hit and they score when the have to, period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never said the offense sucked. I just said that I wished that they would go back to manufacturing runs like they were earlier in the season instead of depending on the longball. The stats do show that our lineup doesn't hit for a very high average and doesn't get on base much. They still score runs though.

[Guest JimH]

Lots of strikeouts, lots of homers, and ranked last in the MLB in doubles and triples.  I think that's pretty valid and curious data.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Learn to look beneath the surface and understand the nuances of the game. When you do, things will make more sense and you'll be a more educated baseball fan.

 

When you're looking at stats like "ranked last in MLB in doubles" it tells me you were a big fan of the 2001-2004 White Sox.

[southsideirish71]

What about 9th in baseball in runs scored???  You guys make this offense out to suck when in all honesty some of you guys are just spoiled with this team, they're so good and you just expect the hitting to be perfect, good pitching will shut down good hitting any day of the week and it happens with every team not just us.  As I said in the game thread yesterday for the last few games the sox offense has been slumping but everytime they've had a little slump they've broke out of it so quickly.  The offense is fine, it's not the best in baseball but they get every clutch hit and they score when the have to, period.

 

 

I think our pitching is the best in baseball. The only thing that can mess that up if the cubans dont throw strikes. If both of them throw strikes and trust their stuff. Then there is nothing that touches our pitching.

 

Our offense can be really good all the time. But come on, I listen to Rooney and Farmio and watch the game on TV. And all they state on the strikeouts is, wow he took a home run cut on that swing. So get on Farmio and Rooney, because they make similiar comments about the cuts at the plate.

[Guest JimH]

Our offense can be really good all the time.  But come on, I listen to Rooney and Farmio and watch the game on TV.  And all they state on the strikeouts is, wow he took a home run cut on that swing.  So get on Farmio and Rooney, because they make similiar comments about the cuts at the plate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

All they state on the strikeouts is, wow he took a home run cut on that swing?

 

Come on.

 

I listen to them all the time too, and I honestly can't remember them saying that or even alluding to it more than a couple of times this year. Last year? Yes.

 

No offense is really good all the time. Good pitching shuts down good hitting, it always has and always will. That's why this team is built on pitching.

[shakes]

I agree with everything else you said, but this is the most important part I think.  When Jason created this board he wasn't thinking, gee I'd like to make a place where people could just bash everything the Sox do or don't do everyday while other people actually try and have meaningful discussions.

 

I only read a few posts in the game thread (which is more than I've probably read in a few weeks combined) and they were ridiculous.  People b****ing about how this team sucks and the best record is a fluke and we can't hit s***ty pitching etc.  ENOUGH.  The constant negativity of a few people on this board has ruined the game threads to the point where I don't even like to read them anymore.  Instead of interesting discussion on the best team in baseball we get "They suck, all they do is swing for the fences"  "Here comes Shingo to f*** it up"  "Ozzie is an idiot for not putting in (player x)".

 

I'm f***ing tired of it.  You kiddies want to b**** about everything on the internet, go make a livejournal.

 

[Jabroni]

Learn to look beneath the surface and understand the nuances of the game.  When you do, things will make more sense and you'll be a more educated baseball fan.

 

When you're looking at stats like "ranked last in MLB in doubles" it tells me you were a big fan of the 2001-2004 White Sox.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess I don't understand the game because I used stats to back up my statement, huh? The stats strengthen my statement. They don't really back up yours. If they were really trying to drive the ball like you say, they would have more doubles and triples.

 

Oh well, just keep winning.

[Guest JimH]

I guess I don't understand the game because I used stats to back up my statement, huh?  The stats strengthen my statement.  They don't really back up yours.  If they were really trying to drive the ball like you say, they would have more doubles and triples.

 

Oh well, just keep winning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I stand by what I said, if you are just looking at stats, you need to learn more about the game. Judging by a lot of your posts, particularly in the game thread, you need to learn a lot more about the game. I would guess you are about 25. Watch the game for about 20 more years and trust me, you will understand it more and place less emphasis on stats like "they are last in doubles". Not to mention by the way one of the most prodigious doubles hitters in major league history has been on the shelf most of the year.

 

I wonder where they were in doubles last year (not that I really care), but it goes to show the entire approach is different. But, you seem to think that every time they make an out, it's because they are swinging for the fences. The game is less about stats than you think, but again, hopefully that will come to you in time. Nothing personal. But you have a lot to learn about the game, so do I, but don't be a sheep and believe everything else that people scream at the top of their lungs. Look deeper, you will be better off, trust me.

[Jabroni]

I stand by what I said, if you are just looking at stats, you need to learn more about the game.  Judging by a lot of your posts, particularly in the game thread, you need to learn a lot more about the game.  I would guess you are about 25.  Watch the game for about 20 more years and trust me, you will understand it more and place less emphasis on stats like "they are last in doubles".  Not to mention by the way one of the most prodigious doubles hitters in major league history has been on the shelf most of the year.

 

I wonder where they were in doubles last year (not that I really care), but it goes to show the entire approach is different.  But, you seem to think that every time they make an out, it's because they are swinging for the fences.  The game is less about stats than you think, but again, hopefully that will come to you in time.  Nothing personal.  But you have a lot to learn about the game, so do I, but don't be a sheep and believe everything else that people scream at the top of their lungs.  Look deeper, you will be better off, trust me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I understand that stats are not the end all be all of baseball but are they not an indicator of what is going on? To supposedly have a lot of speed in your lineup with Podsednik, Iguchi, Rowand, and Uribe, and still being ranked last in doubles and triples in the MLB shows something is going on. Doesn't it? I'm not saying that all of those guys are swinging for the fences but I do think that the rest of the lineup is. Also, demeaning someone about their baseball knowledge when you are having a simple discussion doesn't strengthen your argument.

Edited July 1, 2005 by Jabroni

[Milkman delivers]

All they state on the strikeouts is, wow he took a home run cut on that swing?

 

Come on.

 

I listen to them all the time too, and I honestly can't remember them saying that or even alluding to it more than a couple of times this year.  Last year?  Yes.

 

No offense is really good all the time.  Good pitching shuts down good hitting, it always has and always will.  That's why this team is built on pitching.

 

I always watch the games on tv, but I had to listen once this year on the radio because of a blackout. From that one game, Farmer and Rooney really did talk like that. Now that's just one game, but they did sound like that then.

[Harry Chappas]

I understand that stats are not the end all be all of baseball but are they not an indicator of what is going on?  To supposedly have a lot of speed in your lineup with Podsednik, Iguchi, Rowand, and Uribe, and still being ranked last in doubles and triples in the MLB shows something is going on.  Doesn't it?  I'm not saying that those guys are swinging for the fences but I do think that the rest of the lineup is.  Also, demeaning someone about their baseball knowledge when you are having a simple discussion doesn't strengthen your argument.

No Pods goal, get on base (single/walk) and steal thus getting a double without swinging for the fences. Then Iguchi is to get him over. The problem with this though is that Konerko is hitting .150 when they are in scoring position he is the guy that is keeping the offense down as he is relied to be the major run producer and although he is getting guys in, he should have more. Other than that there are no other issues I see with the team.

[Spiff]

I understand that stats are not the end all be all of baseball but are they not an indicator of what is going on?  To supposedly have a lot of speed in your lineup with Podsednik, Iguchi, Rowand, and Uribe, and still being ranked last in doubles and triples in the MLB shows something is going on.  Doesn't it?  I'm not saying that all of those guys are swinging for the fences but I do think that the rest of the lineup is.  Also, demeaning someone about their baseball knowledge when you are having a simple discussion doesn't strengthen your argument.

 

Alright genius, if doubles are such a blatant indicator of success, tell me why the records of the teams who are the top 7 and bottom 7 in doubles look like this?

 

Rank in doubles-Team-Record

1 boston 45-32

2 reds 30-47

3 brewers 36-42

4 cubs 40-37

5 d-backs 39-41

6 orioles 43-35

7 giants 33-44

......................

24 st louis 49-29

25 san diego 43-36

26 minnesota 42-34

27 dodgers 37-41

28 tigers 36-39

29 phillies 40-39

30 white sox 53-24

[southsider2k5]

All right guys, I am splitting this whole arguement out of the *GAME* thread. Can we rehash this for the zillionth time somewhere else, or even better, not again?

[Jabroni]

Alright genius, if doubles are such a blatant indicator of success, tell me why the records of the teams who are the top 7 and bottom 7 in doubles look like this?

 

Rank in doubles-Team-Record

1 boston 45-32

2 reds 30-47

3 brewers 36-42

4 cubs 40-37

5 d-backs 39-41

6 orioles 43-35

7 giants 33-44

......................

24 st louis  49-29

25 san diego 43-36

26 minnesota 42-34

27 dodgers 37-41

28 tigers 36-39

29 phillies 40-39

30 white sox 53-24

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Heh, yeah all of those teams suck because they hit doubles. How about bad pitching and defense? Now THAT is a really stupid stat. :rolly

Edited July 1, 2005 by Jabroni

[Jabroni]

You have just based your last 5 posts on how hitting doubles and extra base hits are the key to an offense, yet Spiff shows you top 1-7, and the only solid team on that list is Boston.

 

IMO the more telling stat is the bottom 7, Minny, St.Louis, San Diego and the Sox are all playoff teams IMO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never said that they were the "key to an offense." But they definately help, no? You can't depend on the longball all the time. Last season proved this. I think the more telling stat is that just because a team hits doubles doesn't mean that they are good. They could still have sucky pitching and defense. Would it be bad to hit doubles and triples AND have good pitching and defense? I don't think so...

Edited July 1, 2005 by Jabroni

[Milkman delivers]

I started this thread?

 

I understand my post is the first in here and somebody has to be the one who "started" this thing, but I hope this thread doesn't make me seem like more of a b****er than I'm already seen as.

 

Please note, I have not b****ed at all in this thread.

[Milkman delivers]

LOL, I think your alright Milkman, don't worry about it.

 

Why thank you

[southsider2k5]

I started this thread?

 

I understand my post is the first in here and somebody has to be the one who "started" this thing, but I hope this thread doesn't make me seem like more of a b****er than I'm already seen as.

 

Please note, I have not b****ed at all in this thread.

 

It wasn't anything personal, it just seemed to be a good spot to start cutting. It could have been any number of people, that just happened to be where I decided.