Texsox Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 ESPN Linkage It's backwards. Virtually every one of the 17,624,321 All-Star diatribes we have heard over the years – not to mention those about to bust from the gates next week – whine about which players were "deserving," who "should be on there," who "was robbed." All very visceral stuff, but hardly any of it is based in the reality of how the voting process actually works. Talking Head 1: What, 18 homers and 43 RBI isn't an All-Star? C'mon! Talking Head 2: And you think that guy's got a beef? How about … Not to douse this fun with the cold water of fact, but because there a finite number of spots, putting someone on the team means taking someone off. And that ain't easy. You'd almost always have to completely start over from the beginning, taking into account the fan voting, the league voting and then the team's picks by the manager, who also must consider various real-life concerns like team balance, contender representation, and most nettlesome, the requirement that every team send at least one player to the game. More at link and Paulie getting some love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 If they wanted to make over the AS game and give it a bit of credibility they could: 1.) Eliminate the fan vote, the people who vote don't know s***, they vote by name recognition and what team the player is on. "but it's the fans game, they should have a say in who they want to see at their game." My ass, most fans want the fan vote elimated anyway seeing how it has made a mockery of the game. 2.) Simply have the Managers and Players vote on who they believe should start and who they believe should be the backups. The players/managers are more likely to pick the most deserving of their peers than the fans are. 3.) Eliminate the "Every team must have a Rep rule". Why should an ultra s***ty team like KC have a rep in the AS game because the fans of that team will watch to see their undeserving bad player suck in the AS game, please. This is the only thing I like about the NBA AS game, when was the last time the Bulls had a rep? And deservedly so. Oakland and KC will be sending most likely either a hurt Sweeney or a bad Emil Brown and one of the undeserving relievers of Duchscherer or Street. Eliminating this rule will free up two spots on the roster for more deserving players. Mike Williams(6.44 ERA) was an All-Star as was Lance Carter. :puke There's more I can come up with but it's 3 AM and I am very tired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 For starters, they will never eliminate the fan vote. Everytime a fan picks up a ballot, there is an ad in his hand. Everey time a fan goes to mlb-dot-com, he sees ads. Those ads equal $income$. So, you might as well forget about it. The National League could cause the elimination of the "every team has a rep" rule because the current system puts them at a disadvantage, one that now has an effect on the World Series. The NL has to burn 2 more spots on their team, as they have 16 teams and the AL has 14. I think that rule should be s***canned as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted July 2, 2005 Author Share Posted July 2, 2005 In my lifetime I never had to think about this so I could be wrong but wasn't the system in the past that the home advantage would basically switch back and forth between the leagues? In that case, nothing has really changed. Nothing you do as a team ever won you home field advantage. It was either the luck of the year or now the winner in some game. Hell, flip a coin each year. YASNY brings up an excellent point, the advertsing is real and will keep the fans *worldwide* voting. It has got to be a huge money maker for MLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo Paz Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Pretty funny. The only position player on the best team in baseball (Konerko) getting any consideration at all is the first one I would get rid of given the chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Since we agree that they will always have the fans vote and that a lot of times the most deserving players aren't always chosen, why not just re name the event. It's not really an all star game. I think calling it that it was really bothers a lot of fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted July 2, 2005 Author Share Posted July 2, 2005 QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Jul 2, 2005 -> 09:14 AM) Since we agree that they will always have the fans vote and that a lot of times the most deserving players aren't always chosen, why not just re name the event. It's not really an all star game. I think calling it that it was really bothers a lot of fans. I'm not so certain LMB, think about this for a second. If they changed it to the "Best Player This Season At Every Position Game" I could see the controversy. "Star" is a Hollywood term that I believe exactly describes the game. Some of the players are there for their "star power" and some for their playing. Jeter is as much a celebrity "star" as a baseball "star". Does that make a little sense? The game to me is all about marketing hype in the middle of the summer. People are going on vacations and baseball needs their butts in seats. What better way than to trot out the "names" (re:stars) for an exhibtion game? The names you get excited to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam G Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 QUOTE(YASNY @ Jul 2, 2005 -> 02:40 AM) For starters, they will never eliminate the fan vote. What about having the fans vote for the backups? Or maybe giving the players a veto power over the fans' choices of the starters? We shouldnt have this BS like Nomar leading the NL SS voting, it turns the game into a sham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 QUOTE(Adam G @ Jul 2, 2005 -> 11:18 AM) What about having the fans vote for the backups? Or maybe giving the players a veto power over the fans' choices of the starters? We shouldnt have this BS like Nomar leading the NL SS voting, it turns the game into a sham. It's not going to happen. You might as well accept that fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHammer Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 I think people misunderstand the all-star game. It isn't necessarily the "people who are having the best first-half" game. It is a gathering of stars. Luckily there are so many spots on the team that guys having great first halfs can be added as well and that is how new stars are born. The one player every team rule I like too because I think it would suck if my team not to have a representative and I really do not care about the ONE guy who was the 26th best or whatever it comes to exactly that he will knock off the team. I do not see a whole lot wrong with the game, no matter how you do it some guys won't make it. And the fans absolutely should be able to pick who they want to see as the starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mplssoxfan Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 What should happen with the fan voting is something like Bill James (I know, but bear with me) advocated about 20 years ago: make each ballpark a separate precinct, with on-line voting being a separate precinct. It would work like this: the votes from each park would be counted separately, and the leading votegetter at each park would recieve 10 votes. Then the 2nd place man would get 9, 3rd place 8, etc. It's essentially the same way the voting works for MVP and Cy Young awards. I realize it will never happen, but it would be a much better system than we have now, where I just basically vote for members of my fantasy team and the Sox, because it doesn't really matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 QUOTE(TheHammer @ Jul 2, 2005 -> 01:41 PM) I think people misunderstand the all-star game. It isn't necessarily the "people who are having the best first-half" game. It is a gathering of stars. Luckily there are so many spots on the team that guys having great first halfs can be added as well and that is how new stars are born. The one player every team rule I like too because I think it would suck if my team not to have a representative and I really do not care about the ONE guy who was the 26th best or whatever it comes to exactly that he will knock off the team. I do not see a whole lot wrong with the game, no matter how you do it some guys won't make it. And the fans absolutely should be able to pick who they want to see as the starters. including nomah? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 QUOTE(TheHammer @ Jul 2, 2005 -> 01:41 PM) The one player every team rule I like too because I think it would suck if my team not to have a representative and I really do not care about the ONE guy who was the 26th best or whatever it comes to exactly that he will knock off the team. But do those fans actually care? If it's blatantly obvious that you don't belong on the team and you're just there because the rest of your team sucks more than you do, would you really want to be there? Does it really feel like an accomplishment? I doubt very many fans from s***ty teams care if they have a player on it or not since they're probably sulking a bit from having a poor season, especially if it's a knowledgeable fan who realizes that their team is not deserving of an All-Star. It kinda seems like adding insult to injury to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 i dont really pay much attention to the all star game but I have to say football has it best, play the game after the season where a player has to actually have a good season to get in not just a good half... but i guess they cant do that now since it decides who gets home field advantage..... Basicly you guys can all worry about the all star game i wont watch it, one game i will watch is the future star game or whatevr its called with Jenks and Chris Young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jul 2, 2005 -> 08:00 PM) i dont really pay much attention to the all star game but I have to say football has it best, play the game after the season where a player has to actually have a good season to get in not just a good half... but i guess they cant do that now since it decides who gets home field advantage..... Basicly you guys can all worry about the all star game i wont watch it, one game i will watch is the future star game or whatevr its called with Jenks and Chris Young. The Pro Bowl is the worst All Star Game in professional sports. After the season is a bad idea; but in the NFL, it is necessary because of all the injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 QUOTE(knightni @ Jul 3, 2005 -> 12:05 AM) The Pro Bowl is the worst All Star Game in professional sports. After the season is a bad idea; but in the NFL, it is necessary because of all the injuries. The only reason the pro bowl is worse is because they players basicly play touch football to prevent injuries, hell they could probably play without pads with how light the hits are. But as for after the season that is the best because to get in you have to have a great season from start to end not just a fluke half season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 The "every team has a rep" rule, though it causes some undeserving players to make it, does do something positive for baseball. It helps to keep, or make, the kids as fans. I know when I was a kid, it was important to me who was in the game for the White Sox. When I'd attend a game after the break, even though the team might have sucked, I knew I'd get to see our all-star CF, Chet Lemon ... or whoever. Building and maintaining a young fan base is crucial to baseball, and this does help develope that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 QUOTE(Texsox @ Jul 2, 2005 -> 03:02 PM) I'm not so certain LMB, think about this for a second. If they changed it to the "Best Player This Season At Every Position Game" I could see the controversy. "Star" is a Hollywood term that I believe exactly describes the game. Some of the players are there for their "star power" and some for their playing. Jeter is as much a celebrity "star" as a baseball "star". Does that make a little sense? The game to me is all about marketing hype in the middle of the summer. People are going on vacations and baseball needs their butts in seats. What better way than to trot out the "names" (re:stars) for an exhibtion game? The names you get excited to see. Very good point. Maybe the all star game is the perfect name for it. Maybe it's the fans that need to not misinterpret it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 QUOTE(YASNY @ Jul 2, 2005 -> 07:46 PM) The "every team has a rep" rule, though it causes some undeserving players to make it, does do something positive for baseball. It helps to keep, or make, the kids as fans. I know when I was a kid, it was important to me who was in the game for the White Sox. When I'd attend a game after the break, even though the team might have sucked, I knew I'd get to see our all-star CF, Chet Lemon ... or whoever. Building and maintaining a young fan base is crucial to baseball, and this does help develope that. YAS, that's great, the problem is if you're going to do that you can't have the game mean something. It can't be meaningful and be an exhibition at the same time. This year for me I'm going to have a big interest in the game because home field in the world series can be a difference maker, do you want to see Emil Brown out there as a deciding factor in something like that??? I don't know maybe it's just me but I just don't think you can have it both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 3, 2005 -> 02:40 AM) YAS, that's great, the problem is if you're going to do that you can't have the game mean something. It can't be meaningful and be an exhibition at the same time. This year for me I'm going to have a big interest in the game because home field in the world series can be a difference maker, do you want to see Emil Brown out there as a deciding factor in something like that??? I don't know maybe it's just me but I just don't think you can have it both ways. I'll agree with that 100%. Personally, I think the overall AL vs. NL record in interleague play should determine the home field advantage. In the event they finish at 50-50, let the All Star game be the tie breaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Left White Sock Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 Does anyone actually like that the ASG determines home field advantage for the World Series? Maybe I'm just projecting my opinion onto other people but it seems like everyone agrees it is a terrible idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 QUOTE(My Left White Sock @ Jul 3, 2005 -> 09:35 AM) Does anyone actually like that the ASG determines home field advantage for the World Series? Maybe I'm just projecting my opinion onto other people but it seems like everyone agrees it is a terrible idea. It all depends on whether the AL wins the ASG the year we finally make it to the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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