TRADE THREAD II ~ July 2 - July 8

[Texsox]

The original thread was getting very large and people were complaining. Let's try a weekly version. Remember if any of these trades or roster moves are actually made, threads will be created, dreams realized, friendships made and broken, posting records smashed.

 

And give me a Yea Haw for the best team in baseball.

[Milkman delivers]

Yea Haw!

 

This is a good idea, the other one was gigantic.

 

NOW GET JASON SCHMIDT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Texsox]

Yea Haw!

 

This is a good idea, the other one was gigantic.

 

NOW GET JASON SCHMIDT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

BTW Excellent screen name

[Milkman delivers]

BTW Excellent screen name 

 

Gotta love the Milkman.

[farmteam]

Thanks for the thread, Toby!

 

At least, the guy in your avy looks like Toby Keith .

Edited July 2, 2005 by farmteam

[jackie hayes]

Yee haw, baby.

[VAfan]

Since the other thread is locked, let me just add here that after last night I don't think we can rely on Contreras to pitch AT ALLl in the postseason. Frankly, if we can't trade him, I'd LEAVE HIM OFF THE POSTSEASON ROSTER. I'd much rather have El Duque and McCarthy and try to get a start out of one of them than have Contreras go into one of his "can't find the strike zone" funks.

 

How hard can it be for a pitcher who has been around as long as he has to throw a strike?

 

Now I can't imagine that SF will take him in a package for Schmidt, or that anyone will take him, for that matter. So we're just going to have to make due.

 

But if a chance comes up and we can skip his turn in the rotation, Ozzie should take it. Contreras needs a break to get his mojo back.

[Guest JimH]

Now I can't imagine that SF will take him in a package for Schmidt, or that anyone will take him, for that matter.  So we're just going to have to make due.

 

But if a chance comes up and we can skip his turn in the rotation, Ozzie should take it.  Contreras needs a break to get his mojo back.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is exactly the point. Who would want Contreras at $6M? It's not hard to imagine rival GM's thinking, if Contreras can't put it together in Chicago with that great support network, where is he ever gonna do it? About the only team that might take a chance on him is Flordia, with that huge Cuban population. But they won't take on the $6M salary, no chance.

 

Therefore, the Sox do one of two things:

 

1. Keep him in the rotation and try to help him

2. Demote him to long relief and bring in another starter

 

I thought all of the announcers were gonna crawl out of their skin last nite, both the tv and radio guys. It's a safe bet Williams and Guillen are trying to figure out what to do as well.

[UofIChiSox]

I too feel that there is no way that we can have Contreras continue starting like that. I know baseball is a team sport, but last night's loss can be put squarely on his shoulders. I know his record is 3-5 now, but what would it be if our team hadn't bailed him out and gotten him into no decision situations? Anywhere else and Contreras would probably be about 2-10.

 

That being said, I don't see any way to possibly be able to move him unless maybe we're willing to pay him to pitch for another team, but then again, maybe we'd be better off with that.

[ObamaKnowsBest]

Yes Contreras is very iffy to me. I trust McCarthy more than him. If we made a trade i dont think McCarthy will be traded away because i dont think Ozzie and Kenny trust Contreras either. But what to do with him I have no idea.!!!

[3E8]

I know his record is 3-5 now, but what would it be if our team hadn't bailed him out and gotten him into no decision situations?  Anywhere else and Contreras would probably be about 2-10.

Actually he would probably be at least .500 on other teams considering he ranks 92 out of 108 in the entire MLB in run support at 3.87 runs per nine innings.

 

Not trying to make excuses though because last night was brutal. And now that I think about it, maybe his demeanor and lullaby approach on the mound contribute to lackluster offensive performances.

[Chisoxfn]

I too feel that there is no way that we can have Contreras continue starting like that.  I know baseball is a team sport, but last night's loss can be put squarely on his shoulders.  I know his record is 3-5 now, but what would it be if our team hadn't bailed him out and gotten him into no decision situations?  Anywhere else and Contreras would probably be about 2-10.

 

That being said, I don't see any way to possibly be able to move him unless maybe we're willing to pay him to pitch for another team, but then again, maybe we'd be better off with that.

What are you talking about. Early in the season he continually got screwed out of wins by the bullpen. Jose has pitched very well this season. I know he struggled last night and can be tough to watch, but his numbers have been good and he's kept the club in most games.

 

Its frustrating to watch him, I'll admit, but thats probably because we all have seen the potential he has and expect to see it. I know I've seen a few starts this year where I'm just in awe at how he pitches. Problem is once he gets into a jam he's gonna struggle the rest of that inning. He just creates problems and needs to learn to pitch with some confidence.

[elrockinMT]

Contreras has pitched some real good games and then all of a sudden he has looked like a little league pitcher. Last night with 3 WP's and 7 walks just shows how fragile this guy is as far as consistency. He seems to be one where, if he isn't just right with everything then he falls apart. Let's hope we see this guy get turned around here by the third week of July at the latest, or I agree we need someone else. I am not convinced yet that McCarthy is the answer either simply becasue of his inexperience. Brandon has been rocked for 8 homers already.

[nitetrain8601]

What are you talking about.  Early in the season he continually got screwed out of wins by the bullpen.  Jose has pitched very well this season.  I know he struggled last night and can be tough to watch, but his numbers have been good and he's kept the club in most games. 

 

Its frustrating to watch him, I'll admit, but thats probably because we all have seen the potential he has and expect to see it.  I know I've seen a few starts this year where I'm just in awe at how he pitches.  Problem is once he gets into a jam he's gonna struggle the rest of that inning.  He just creates problems and needs to learn to pitch with some confidence.

 

My sentiments exactly.

[Ozzie Montana]

Contreras is either hit or miss. He is diminating or his is awful.

 

Actually he would probably be at least .500 on other teams considering he ranks 92 out of 108 in the entire MLB in run support at 3.87 runs per nine innings.

 

^^^This doesnt help his cause either. I would like to see some consistency out of him. Like going 6 or seven innings each start, give up 3 runs. Ozzie and Coop have to work on his confidence and consistency. I dont know how theyre gunna do it... but it has to be done.

Edited July 2, 2005 by Ozzie Montana

[wsox08]

I would give Contreras one or two more starts and if he can't find his control then I would send him down to AAA for a few more starts or until he is able to recover. Right now I would definitely lean towards McCarthy over Contreras... When is El Duque back?

[Ozzie Montana]

When is El Duque back?

 

Ozzie hasnt said when he's coming off the DL but here's the article.

 

 

"Hernandez not ready yet; McCarthy goes on Monday"

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-doug01.html

Edited July 2, 2005 by Ozzie Montana

[YASNY]

Every time we go out west, we get our asses kicked in the first game. It's jetlag, folks. The whole team was flat last night, Contreras included.

[wsox08]

Every time we go out west, we get our asses kicked in the first game.  It's jetlag, folks.  The whole team was flat last night, Contreras included.

Let's take the next two with Garland and Buehrle...

[Dick Allen]

Contreras may be the most frustrating pitcher the White Sox have ever had. If the guy had Roger Clemens' demeanor he would be a Cy Young candidate every season. I think its too soon to pull the plug on this guy. Next time out he may pitch a 2 hitter, and make everyone look foolish at the plate. Eventually, one of these outings has to make a difference in his mind. Someday he is going to realize guys can hit the ball and still make an out. As awful as he was last night, and he was awful, if Walker gets the guy out instead of walking him, Contreras only gives up 2 runs.

[Ozzie Montana]

Contreras may be the most frustrating pitcher the White Sox have ever had. If the guy had Roger Clemens' demeanor he would be a Cy Young candidate every season. I think its too soon to pull the plug on this guy. Next time out he may pitch a 2 hitter, and make everyone look foolish at the plate. Eventually, one of these outings has to make a difference in his mind. Someday he is going to realize guys can hit the ball and still make an out. As awful as he was last night, and he was awful, if Walker gets the guy out instead of walking him, Contreras only gives up 2 runs.

 

Agree 100%. If he gets it like Garland has gotten it this year he will be very nasty for hitters. Right now he's a decent number 5 pitcher.

[Milkman delivers]

What are you talking about.  Early in the season he continually got screwed out of wins by the bullpen.  Jose has pitched very well this season.  I know he struggled last night and can be tough to watch, but his numbers have been good and he's kept the club in most games. 

 

Its frustrating to watch him, I'll admit, but thats probably because we all have seen the potential he has and expect to see it.  I know I've seen a few starts this year where I'm just in awe at how he pitches.  Problem is once he gets into a jam he's gonna struggle the rest of that inning.  He just creates problems and needs to learn to pitch with some confidence.

 

That's the thing. The guy is like 35-40 years old and has been pitching since he was probably 14. He's not learning anything else. This is the pitcher that Jose Contreras is, but he's actually more of a thrower. He has no idea how to pitch and he's too pig-headed or scared to listen to the catcher.

 

The thing that scares me is that I don't trust him or McCarthy now. I really feel like we need another starter.

[sircaffey]

[/b]

 

That's the thing.  The guy is like 35-40 years old and has been pitching since he was probably 14.  He's not learning anything else.  This is the pitcher that Jose Contreras is, but he's actually more of a thrower.  He has no idea how to pitch and he's too pig-headed or scared to listen to the catcher.

 

The thing that scares me is that I don't trust him or McCarthy now.  I really feel like we need another starter.

 

Jose just can't do it. It's not a thing about not listening to the catcher. The catcher can tell Jose everything to do, but Jose just can not execute. AJ can't make Jose's arm throw the ball to his mitt.

[Balta1701]

Right now, I'm still willing to say that Jose has just had a bad month. He's gotten away from what he was doing earlier in the year, and is throwing far too many balls...thus getting him behind in the count and letting people hammer him.

 

The thing I'd say at this point is that everyone goes through good and bad times. The year the Marlins won the series, Dontrelle Willis had an ERA nearly 7 during August. Last year, several of Boston's starters were terrible in June.

 

I'll agree that Jose needs to be kept on a short leash, but he still should get some leeway. At least until after the AS break. Give him some time to work through this and try to get some control back.

 

If he keeps walking 6 guys in 4 innings, then I will come around to the "we need another starter" point of view. Yesterday's game was just intolerable. We beat ourselves because Jose (and a few others) couldn't throw strikes.

[Chisoxfn]

[/b]

 

That's the thing.  The guy is like 35-40 years old and has been pitching since he was probably 14.  He's not learning anything else.  This is the pitcher that Jose Contreras is, but he's actually more of a thrower.  He has no idea how to pitch and he's too pig-headed or scared to listen to the catcher.

 

The thing that scares me is that I don't trust him or McCarthy now.  I really feel like we need another starter.

There is a difference between pitching in the majors and pitching in Cuba. He's got issues and a lot of it may due to him not being comfortable. El Duque being in the clubhouse probably helps him but he's still developing himself. This is stuff thats between the ears and he's going to have to adjust to the way major league baseball is played.

 

I know most expected him to adjust more quickly (the Yanks sure did) but he's made strides this year. Just look at his numbers and compare them to previous 5th starters the Sox have had. Contreras may be in a funk, but I can't see how people can forget the way he pitched for most of this season thus far. The guy has been pretty damn solid and should have 6 or 7 wins if it weren't for crappy relief and zero run support in his games.

 

He causes a lot of problems, but he's not near as bad as a lot of you say he is. I'd be the first to say I don't like watching him pitch, but that doesn't mean he's an awful pitcher, in fact he's better than the major league average, imo.

 

And how the hell people are calling for El Duque to replace him I'll never know. Duque had a ridiculously high WHIP and not only walked too many batters, but he also gave up way too many hits. Maybe when he comes back Duque will pitch more like the Duque of old, but I'm not holding my breath and he's not a better option at this point than Jose.