TRADE THREAD II ~ July 2 - July 8

[AngelasDaddy0427]

Is this a joke? Jamie Moyer should be Plan A... At least his career isn't over like Schmidts is. I'd be willing to bet he has much more in the tank. KW needs to go after him.

[Steve Bartman's my idol]

If the Schmidt deal is really dead, which I don't for a second believe, then who else might the Sox decide to add before the trade deadline? 

 

What about Jamie Moyer?  With the Boone release, I think the M's are going to shift into serious sell-off territory very soon, and Moyer is still a marketable commodity.  For us he would provide fine insurance against a Contreras/El Duque meltdown in the second half, and he would likely give us a better #4 starter option in the playoffs than either of our Cuban pitchers.  Plus, what can he cost? 

 

If the Sox ate the rest of his contract, he may be had for a couple of second-tier prospects.  I'm not saying he's great, because he hasn't pitched well outside Seattle this year, but I think with the Contreras/El Duque/McCarthy situation, KW will need to do something to shore up the starting pitching before the deadline.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

mentioned this 2 weeks ago

[That funky motion]

How are his post season #? More importantly,how does he pitch on the west coast!

[aboz56]

I would probably make this about Plan C.

 

I don't think he puts us over the top and if El Duque can pitch, I'd take him in a heartbeat over Moyer.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 05:48 PM)

Is this a joke? Jamie Moyer should be Plan A... At least his career isn't over like Schmidts is. I'd be willing to bet he has much more in the tank. KW needs to go after him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Moyer:

7-3

4.57 ERA

1.48 WHIP

.80 GO/AO

How exactly is this an improvement over what we have now and what we are willing to give up for him?

[AngelasDaddy0427]

...and you think Schmidt is worth it? Who's far worse in the NL!

At least we wouldn't have to pay a Kings ransom for Moyer like we would Schmidt. Plus he's be healthier down the stretch then El Duque...

[aboz56]

...and you think Schmidt is worth it? Who's far worse in the NL!

At least we wouldn't have to pay a Kings ransom for Moyer like we would Schmidt. Plus he's be healthier down the stretch then El Duque...

That's the only plus to dealing for Moyer, it wouldn't take much to get him.

[Balta1701]

Doesn't this belong in the "Trades" thread?

[aboz56]

Doesn't this belong in the "Trades" thread?

I think it got locked.

 

We need a forum for just trade stuff.

 

Jas, get on this, PRONTO!

 

[AngelasDaddy0427]

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 04:59 PM)

That's the only plus to dealing for Moyer, it wouldn't take much to get him.

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So already being used to the AL and being almost sure to outpitch Schmidt through the rest of the year aren't other plusses. I mean i'm not saying we run out and get him (he doesn't get me that excited either to be honest) but if KW is dead set on getting another starter at least get one that has some shot of getting the job done and staying healthy for us.

[RockRaines]

not worth it while anthrax is trolling around. We will get nothing but unmentionable drabble and all around board spam.

[Wedge]

If the Schmidt deal is really dead, which I don't for a second believe,

 

What leads you to this belief?

[aboz56]

So already being used to the AL and being almost sure to outpitch Schmidt through the rest of the year aren't other plusses. I mean i'm not saying we run out and get him (he doesn't get me that excited either to be honest) but if KW is dead set on getting another starter at least get one that has some shot of getting the job done and staying healthy for us.

He is not having that great of a year and he plays in a pitcher friendly park.

 

I'd give up a mid level prospect but not much else to get him.

 

Even then, I don't know if I have him on the playoff roster if Duque is healthy.

[hi8is]

who or what is the antrax entity you are speaking of, i dont know what your all talking about

 

i cant seem to read any of his posts, oh wait... i guees my eyes are selectivly deleting crap that isnt worth reading

 

this selective reading is nice - you ALL should try it

 

seriously

[ZoomSlowik]

Please no on Moyer. I really don't see him as an upgrade. At least Contreras has good stuff, and El Duque has a good playoff track record. Plus I think even El Duque throws harder than he does. Moyer is basically the stereotypical lefthanded junk baller that teams use as a 4 or 5 starter, only he is a 1 or 2 starter in Seattle.

[VAfan]

What leads you to this belief?

 

What leads me to believe the Schmidt deal is not dead is that the parties protested too much when the story broke. I think both sides are still in evaluation mode. The Giants want to keep shopping for a better offer while the Sox still aren't sure Schmidt isn't damaged goods.

[VAfan]

Please no on Moyer. I really don't see him as an upgrade. At least Contreras has good stuff, and El Duque has a good playoff track record. Plus I think even El Duque throws harder than he does. Moyer is basically the stereotypical lefthanded junk baller that teams use as a 4 or 5 starter, only he is a 1 or 2 starter in Seattle.

 

I would agree Moyer is a risk, but a different kind of risk - can he pitch outside Seattle? On the plus side the guy will not get a sore arm like El Duque, and his head is always going to be in the game unlike Contreras.

 

I think KW and Ozzie realize now that McCarthy cannot be the answer this year if El Duque has any more arm troubles, and I don't think they have much faith in Munoz (though he was pitcher of the week) or anyone else at AAA to be an emergency 5th starter.

 

My gut feeling about Moyer is that he will be a better pitcher again if put on a championship team. His last good year was 2003. It was a run of 3 great years for him from 2001-03. In each year Seattle was competitive. When the team dropped off, Moyer nosedived too.

 

I don't see Moyer as a savior that will necessarily put us over the top. But he's a savvy pitcher who might get it together for one last hurrah. He pitched very well in the postseason in 2001, so I see him as potentially better than El Duque and definitely better than Contreras in postseason starts.

[ZoomSlowik]

I would agree Moyer is a risk, but a different kind of risk - can he pitch outside Seattle?  On the plus side the guy will not get a sore arm like El Duque, and his head is always going to be in the game unlike Contreras. 

 

I think KW and Ozzie realize now that McCarthy cannot be the answer this year if El Duque has any more arm troubles, and I don't think they have much faith in Munoz (though he was pitcher of the week) or anyone else at AAA to be an emergency 5th starter. 

 

My gut feeling about Moyer is that he will be a better pitcher again if put on a championship team.  His last good year was 2003.  It was a run of 3 great years for him from 2001-03.  In each year Seattle was competitive.  When the team dropped off, Moyer nosedived too. 

 

I don't see Moyer as a savior that will necessarily put us over the top.  But he's a savvy pitcher who might get it together for one last hurrah.  He pitched very well in the postseason in 2001, so I see him as potentially better than El Duque and definitely better than Contreras in postseason starts.

 

I really don't see Moyer as enough of an improvement over Duque/Contreras to warrant making a trade, and our 5th starter isn't really that important from here on out, especially with Hernandez back shortly after the break.

[beck72]

I would agree Moyer is a risk, but a different kind of risk - can he pitch outside Seattle?  On the plus side the guy will not get a sore arm like El Duque, and his head is always going to be in the game unlike Contreras. 

 

I think KW and Ozzie realize now that McCarthy cannot be the answer this year if El Duque has any more arm troubles, and I don't think they have much faith in Munoz (though he was pitcher of the week) or anyone else at AAA to be an emergency 5th starter. 

 

My gut feeling about Moyer is that he will be a better pitcher again if put on a championship team.  His last good year was 2003.  It was a run of 3 great years for him from 2001-03.  In each year Seattle was competitive.  When the team dropped off, Moyer nosedived too. 

 

I don't see Moyer as a savior that will necessarily put us over the top.  But he's a savvy pitcher who might get it together for one last hurrah.  He pitched very well in the postseason in 2001, so I see him as potentially better than El Duque and definitely better than Contreras in postseason starts.

 

If the sox can't strike a deal for an "ace" type SP [which could very well happen, few guys are out there and they have some big question marks around them] I could see them opting for a veteran having a down year who has had postseason experience [ala Moyer, Glavine, Lieter--guys on one yr contracts].

 

I think the risk is less for a guy who has proven himself in the past and getting better results for the 2nd half [as long as they are throwing well, healthy]

[VAfan]

I really don't see Moyer as enough of an improvement over Duque/Contreras to warrant making a trade, and our 5th starter isn't really that important from here on out, especially with Hernandez back shortly after the break.

 

I would disagree about having a reliable 5th starter. If El Duque were to go down again, and Contreras were to continue his recent meltdown, that would put a lot more pressure on Buerhle/Garcia/Garland and might force the team to press and get away from what has propelled us to being 30 games over .500. As good as we have been, we haven't won anything yet, and we don't have that much room for error. I wouldn't be willing to pay a lot for someone like Moyer, but I think if a better pitcher doesn't come along he could be a very positive addition.

[Guest JimH]

Did Javier Vazquez ever sign a new deal with the Diamondbacks?

[Chisoxfn]

Did Javier Vazquez ever sign a new deal with the Diamondbacks?

No, he never had to. He was in the 2nd year of the extension the Yankees gave him. Of course because he was dealt at the end of the year he has the right to demand a trade, per the collective bargaining agreement (IIRC).

 

Of course he seems to be happy in Arizona.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Wow! 30 games over .500 & you guys are going at each other's throats as if the Twinkees were 2 gb. They are 9.5 gb & with another in Angel town they could be 10.5 gb after today.

 

I think you should start getting used to the real possibility the White Sox will have 60W & a 10 gm lead over the 2nd place Twinkees by the start of the All-Star game. When you consider this team's home record since 2000 & the home schedule in the 2nd half it's not reasonable to believe this team will not finish with less than 95 wins. The offense has always come alive at home & this year is no different. We have the edge in pitching so being 10 gm over .500 in the 2nd half is very reasonable.

 

DYK the White Sox are 23-9 since Thomas' arrival?

 

Therefore all focus of trade talk should be directed towards beating the Angels or the Red Sox in the post season.

 

At Chicagosports.com the favorite seems to be AJ Burnett of the Marlins.

At this time Florida is 3.5 gb of the NL WC will plenty of games left vs Atlanta & the other WC contenders to win it. I think AJB is a pipe dream.

 

Basically when Ozzie says the guys they are interested in are still in contention & haven't decided whether to be buyers or sellers he's telling the the truth. Consider Lilly of the TBJ. Toronto is 5 gb of Twins for the AL WC. They have plenty of games left with the teams in front. That means the White Sox are not likely to even pry Lilly away.

 

Lilly has good numbers against the Angels, Red Sox, NYY, Bal, & Cle. He's suspect against Min & Oak but the past two yr's his 2nd half ERA has been mid-high 3's. Like Radke he's a slow starter but really turns it on in the 2nd half.

 

He also has post-season experience & has started a big game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/players/...=6223&year=2003

 

You can get by the first round with 3 starters. The teams most likely to face the CWS in the ALCS are LAA, BOS, & NYY. Lilly has good solid experience against all 3. Lilly features a good fastball, solid changeup & an effective curve ball.

 

We got El Duque so that he can pitch for us in the post-season. This is a winning strategy because he has such a radical delivery where he releases the ball all over the place. Any one following him in the rotation benefits. But if he's not good to go then Lilly is a better option than Contra.

 

Lilly can be used as a SP or RP. He succeeded in his short stint as a RP years ago &

his first 30 pitches are solid.

Pitches 1-15 54AB .204BAA .623OOP

Pitches 16-30 57AB .263BAA .774OOP

 

If not El Duque then the next best thing is slotting a solid LH with some playoff experience between Garcia & Garland.

Edited July 6, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[Guest JimH]

No, he never had to.  He was in the 2nd year of the extension the Yankees gave him.  Of course because he was dealt at the end of the year he has the right to demand a trade, per the collective bargaining agreement (IIRC).

 

Of course he seems to be happy in Arizona.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks Jason. Personally he is the type of guy I see KW going after. Arizona is in the thick of things I suppose, 4.5 games out, but 3 games under .500 and further back in the wild card.

 

If Vazquez can demand a trade, AZ might be willing to part with him now. Purely speculation on my part but the AZ scouts have been tailing the White Sox. Jenks is up now and if he can perform, a bullpen guy may be a trade bullet. AZ would love to get ahold of Brian Anderson too. Lots of potential matches between the D-Backs and the White Sox.

[AngelasDaddy0427]

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jul 5, 2005 -> 05:04 PM)

He is not having that great of a year and he plays in a pitcher friendly park.

 

I'd give up a mid level prospect but not much else to get him.

 

Even then, I don't know if I have him on the playoff roster if Duque is healthy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You know what. I totally agree with you.

This is one of the reasons I can't get people slobbing all over "has been" Schmidt. He's worse with no hope of getting better and people are willing to give up top prospects for him because he was an ace 2 years ago.

No Moyer doesn't get me excited either. There is no way in heck that Schmidt is worth more then Moyer considering Moyer is the better pitcher and healthier at this point.

 

Honestly I wouldn't package more then Joe Borchard and a couple of low level prospects for either one of them but thats just me.