TRADE THREAD II ~ July 2 - July 8

[VAfan]

I agree with most of this (though I'd happily have Loiaza back for Contreras). As I've said repeatedly, I think some version of Contreras-Uribe for Schmidt-Vizquel is still the best move the Sox could make at the trade deadline.

 

 

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Time and room for Sox to see more of that Ken-do attitude

 

 

Thursday, July 7, 2005

 

 

 

For all its offense, Boston may not have an ace or a closer, what with Curt Schilling and Keith Foulke in limbo. The New York Yankees have turned soft — since when does owner George Steinbrenner congratulate his third-place team after a birthday victory? The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim have three more words in their name than quality starters. Does Minnesota still have a team?

 

If ever there were a time for White Sox general manager Ken Williams to put the pedal to the metal and acquire the one or two pieces it takes to complete the championship puzzle, then the 24 days that remain before the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline are it. Because the South Side may never have a better chance to witness a World Series for the first time in 46 years than the present.

 

"What may be able to change minds in this city is for us to win it all," said Williams, who knows blood when he smells it. "That's what I care about. I've been in this city for 20 years, so I know what it's all about. For our fans and for us, the big picture is what we look at."

 

As Chet Coppock reported on Sporting News Radio last Sunday, a Sox investor indicated the team was on the verge of a deal with San Francisco that would send pitcher Jason Schmidt to the South Side, a report another team executive would not deny.

 

If healthy — and that's a big if — Schmidt would join Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland and Freddy Garcia in the deepest rotation in the big leagues. "I want a top-of-line starter," K-Will said. "You know me better than to want anything less than that."

 

Indications are that Schmidt or any other newly acquired fourth starter would also pitch out of the bullpen in the postseason.

 

(Remember what starter-turned-reliever Josh Beckett did for Florida against the Cubs in Game 7 of the NLCS two years ago? Then in the World Series, Beckett started Game 6 and threw a two-hit shutout against the Yankees as the Marlins clinched the title.)

 

The deal could be expanded to include shortstop Omar Vizquel, who, like Sox manager Ozzie Guillen, is a Venezuela native. Vizquel wasn't yet available, according to a team source, but that could change if and when the fourth-place Giants decide to call it a season before the end of the month.

 

"I prefer to fly stealth," was all Williams would say Wednesday about the trade speculation.

 

The Sox had Vizquel at the top of their wish list last winter, only to have the Giants step in with a better offer. Shortstop Juan Uribe has been a disappointment thus far, while Omar the Playmaker remains as consistent as ever at 38.

 

Indeed, Sox Nation should have complete faith in whatever Williams does in the next three weeks, because the guy has turned chopped steak into filet mignon for two years now.

 

Start with free-agent pitcher Shingo Takatsu, who was signed for a mere $1 million. All he did was save 19 games. After a couple of down months this season, Takatsu appears to have his frisbee back in order again. Garcia was acquired in return for catcher Miguel Olivo and outfielder Jeremy Reed, a pair of prospects. Reed turned out to be a keeper, but Garcia would be the staff ace on almost any other team except this one. Esteban Loaiza for Jose Contreras? Call it no worse than a wash.

 

Last offseason it was more of the same. Free agent A.J. Pierzynski was signed for $2.25 million. What? Two million bucks? For a catcher who is on pace to hit 20-plus homers and calls one of the best games around? Free agent Tadahito Iguchi arrived as a virtual unknown. Now Iguchi rates one of the best second baseman in the AL, a $2.3 million bargain. Yet another free-agent steal, pitcher Dustin Hermanson, has converted 21 of 22 save opportunities at last check. Not bad for $2 million, huh?

 

Then there's outfielder Jermaine Dye, whose $4 million salary is one-third that of Magglio Ordonez, the guy he replaced. The critics who screamed that Ordonez should be re-signed at all costs have been very quiet lately.

 

The only significant move that can be even remotely questioned is the one that sent slugger Carlos Lee to Milwaukee in return for outfielder Scott Podsednik and pitcher Luis Vizcaino. Yet, as dominant as Lee has been for the Brewers, Podsednik has been hell on wheels, a symbol of the speed-and-defense makeover that took place last winter. Where would the Sox be without Sco-Po to wreak havoc at the top of the order?

 

That K-Will has pulled this off on a $75 million payroll tells me he's misplaced as a baseball general manager. The guy should be in charge of the national budget.

 

Yet for all his success, Williams finds himself in a prickly situation at the moment. His team has a fairly comfortable 10½-game lead in the AL Central, not to mention the best record in the bigs. But while Williams keeps one eye on the next pitch, he has to focus the other on the postseason.

 

Problem is, as much as Williams wants to tweak the roster, he has to be careful not to disrupt team chemistry, which ranks on the short list of reasons for team success this season.

 

For instance, the Sox could make a pitch for Cincinnati center fielder Ken Griffey Jr., who at last check was on a pace for 30 home runs and 100-plus RBI and appears to be over his injury problems. Griffey is a left-handed swinger and has loads of postseason experience, both of which the Sox lack.

 

But if you acquire Griffey, what do you tell Aaron Rowand, a guy who has run through the wall for you the last three seasons?

 

Well, it's like this, Aaron: We really do appreciate all you've done for us, but we have a chance to acquire a future Hall of Famer who can make us better. So why don't you grab some bench for a while?

 

"We have to be careful here, but nothing will change the fact that we've set our sights on the playoffs," K-Will said. "If we're fortunate enough to get there, then we'll focus on even greater things."

 

It's time for Ken Williams to work some more of his magic.

[nitetrain8601]

OMFG! This is the biggest pipe-dream in the history of the universe but if the Sox could somehow do this and have a rotation of:

 

Buehrle

Garcia

Garland

Schmidt

Burnett

 

.........:faints:

 

You're reading wrong I think. It says that if the Marlins don't get the ideal package, they would keep Damaso and take the prospects that come with him and combine them with their own prospects and trade for Jason Schmidt.

[RockRaines]

OMFG! This is the biggest pipe-dream in the history of the universe but if the Sox could somehow do this and have a rotation of:

 

Buehrle

Garcia

Garland

Schmidt

Burnett

 

.........:faints:

Did they mean the Marlins could get Schmidt, because if it was us, I would Die. That would be the best rotation I have ever seen.

[WilliamTell]

OMFG! This is the biggest pipe-dream in the history of the universe but if the Sox could somehow do this and have a rotation of:

 

Buehrle

Garcia

Garland

Schmidt

Burnett

 

.........:faints:

 

 

lol I'd like to see the batting lineup after those trades.

[3E8]

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[DBAHO]

Did they mean the Marlins could get Schmidt, because if it was us, I would Die.  That would be the best rotation I have ever seen.

Yes they are talking about the Marlins not the White Sox. And why would you take out Contreras out of the rotation after the way he's pitched in the last 2 months, and last night?

[SoxFan1]

Schmidt - YES

Vizquel - YES

Griffey - NO

 

This really tickled my spine:

 

"As Chet Coppock reported on Sporting News Radio last Sunday, a Sox investor indicated the team was on the verge of a deal with San Francisco that would send pitcher Jason Schmidt to the South Side, a report another team executive would not deny."

 

BOOYA b****ES!

[Guest JimH]

Wasn't this posted once already today?

 

Not to be fussy or anything but isn't the trade stuff supposed to go in the weekly trade thread?

[SoxFan1]

Yes they are talking about the Marlins not the White Sox. And why would you take out Contreras out of the rotation after the way he's pitched in the last 2 months, and last night?

My fault guys. I misread. I thought they meant the Sox would be able to spare some preospects and get Schmidt too.

[sircaffey]

My fault guys. I misread. I thought they meant the Sox would be able to spare some preospects and get Schmidt too. 

 

That would quite worthless anyway. If anything was left, Wagner would be my first choice. But that rotation would be the best in quite some time.

Edited July 7, 2005 by sircaffey

[VAfan]

I highly disagree. Loaiza is pitching in a pitcher's ballpark in the NL. Give him 1 more run that would be scored on him in the AL and he has a worse ERA than Contreras. Minus the last 3 of the last 4 starts, Contreras has a way better ERA than Loaiza.

 

Since Loiaza's not available, it's a side point not worth quibbling over. But you don't see Loiaza walking 7 guys in one game with 3 wild pitches to boot.

[nitetrain8601]

Since Loiaza's not available, it's a side point not worth quibbling over.  But you don't see Loiaza walking 7 guys in one game with 3 wild pitches to boot.

 

And yet pitching in the AL, he more than likely not would have worse numbers than Contreras.

[He_Gawn]

^ You dont see Bmac doing that either.

[Balta1701]

Loaiza's problem last year was that he couldn't keep the ball in the ballpark when he wasn't pitching in a pitcher's ballpark.

 

This year...he's in more of a pitcher's ballpark, and keeping the ball in the park more.

 

In fact...he has a 5.24 ERA outside of Washington.

[Sam]

Willie Harris is unmovable as a backup 2b.  Ozuna?  Of course not.  Everett?  Widger?  Shingo?

If the sox acquire two arms before the deadline, I think Harris is the one to send down. He has been with us since 2001 and has yet to "breakout". Nothing special there.

 

Ozuna can do it all. He's more consistent than Harris, and he can play 2B, SS and even the outfield. Everett's 11 HR gives us some pop off the bench. You obviously can't send Widger down because that leaves us with only one catcher.

Edited July 7, 2005 by Sam

[nitetrain8601]

If the sox acquire two arms before the deadline, I think Harris is the one to send down. He has been with us since 2001 and has yet to "breakout". Nothing special there.

 

Ozuna can do it all. He's more consistent than Harris, and he can play 2B, SS and even the outfield. Everett's 11 HR gives us some pop off the bench. You obviously can't send Widger down because that leaves us with only one catcher.

 

You mean, you're not confident in Paul's catching abilities??

[hammerhead johnson]

I think people just get wowed with his "stuff", which of course is why KW traded for Jose Contreras last year

 

Jose Contreras is ancient. Hell yes people were wowed by his stuff when he was in his prime.

 

I'm wowed by Burnett's stuff, and I have yet to determine how this is a bad thing?

 

Of course you don't want him on your team for $10 to $12 M per when you have Buehrle/Garland/Garcia plus a bunch of other guys that need to be signed in the near future, not to mention the "small things" to take care of as dybber noted.

 

But if I'm a team like the Tigers or Indians let's say, and I have some money to work with, AJ for $10 M per year is a good deal as he is now entering his prime (28-32). As stated, he had an 87% quality start percentage entering July, he strikes out an even 9 batters per 9 IP, his WHIP is very respectable (1.22, was lower going into July), he allows 2.3 walks per game (not terrible), he has 99 hits allowed in 113 IP, etc. Am I putting too much weight in his 2005 stats? I don't think so, as he's just now entering his prime (sorry for reiterating). Remember, it's not a bad thing to pitch 6 innings every time out and hand it over to your bullpen, unless you're Atlanta or somebody and you have jack s*** to work with. With an 87% quality start percentage going into July, he should have more than just 5 wins. 14 quality starts, 5 f***ing wins? Therefore, you'll never hear me talking about win totals, as that has sooo much to do with how your offense and bullpen performs. I'll take WHIP and ERA every freaking time. Ben Sheets and Randy Johnson had literally two of the best seasons in teh history of pitching last year, but they both won less than 15 games.

 

EDIT: Johnson went 16-14, Sheets went 12-14

Edited July 7, 2005 by hammerhead johnson

[AngelasDaddy0427]

First off... even single one of those players makes us WORSE... Griffey because his contract is a joke and he'll be hurt in less then a week tops. Schmidt because he's already hurt and lost all his good stuff about a year ago. ...and Vizquel.. Lets just say his slight boost in offense he might give us wouldn't be worth making the range weaker in the IF by a ton and being stuck with him for 2 more years while he gets worse and worse...

Sorry but no thanks...

[greasywheels121]

Schmidt - YES

Vizquel - YES

Griffey - NO

 

This really tickled my spine:

 

"As Chet Coppock reported on Sporting News Radio last Sunday, a Sox investor indicated the team was on the verge of a deal with San Francisco that would send pitcher Jason Schmidt to the South Side, a report another team executive would not deny."

 

BOOYA b****ES!

 

And Ned Colletti, the assistant GM of the Giants said "Trading Jason Schmidt in no way would put this team in a better position. We have no intentions of trading [schmidt]. All talk is just that: talk."

[VAfan]

Vizquel certainly is hitting well vs RHP, a Sox weakness. In 210 AB's, he's hitting .329/.390/.410.

 

Exactly. And Ozuna is hitting about the same against lefties. They would make a perfect pairing at SS, and Ozuna could still spell Crede at 3B.

[VAfan]

4. Griffey Jr. (For Rowand? Thats the dumbest trade rumor I have heard in the history of life) Nobody wants Mr. Potato Chip Cracky Bones on our team. Quit living in the past people.

 

That is hilarious.

 

I confess to floating Mr. Potato Chip Cracky Bones at one point, but it wasn't to replace Rowand, it was to consider replacing Dye when he was below the Mendoza line and Everett hadn't shown he could play the field. Needless to say I'm not suggesting that any more.

[AngelasDaddy0427]

I think some of you really need to read this....

IT'S NOT 2003. Schmidt is one of the worst pitchers in the NL in a pitchers park this year. HOW ON EARTH CAN YOU EXPECT HIM TO COME TO THE CELL AND DO BETTER. I realize his name is all shiny and stuff BUT HE'S NO LONGER AN ACE. EVEN IF WE GOT HIM (WHICH WOULD BE IN NO WAY WORTH ANYTHING OF QUALITY) HE WOULDN'T EVEN MAKE THE PLAY OFF ROSTER BECAUSE HE'S JUST NOT THAT GOOD!

 

Ok...Rant over....

[AngelasDaddy0427]

That would be the KW fired immediately and blackballed from baseball trade....

I mean why would JR take on such an awful contract when Rowand is one of the most consistant players on the team on both sides of the field...

[Rowand44]

That would be the KW fired immediately and blackballed from baseball trade....

I mean why would JR take on such an awful contract when Rowand is one of the most consistant players on the team on both sides of the field...

Gotta stick up for your man crush, jeckle

[qwerty]

That would be the KW fired immediately and blackballed from baseball trade....

I mean why would JR take on such an awful contract when Rowand is one of the most consistant players on the team on both sides of the field...

 

Mr consistent has a .724 ops as a whole and has hit .250 verse rightie with a .675 ops.

 

His defense may be consistent but his offense? It sucks. I know, i know... he is clutch.

Edited July 7, 2005 by qwerty