Clemens Rumor

[aboz56]

THe only thing I read was that he was unlikely to approve a deal to the White Sox.

 

That was in the Daily Southtown I believe and also on ESPN Insider.

[ZoomSlowik]

How many AL teams score more runs than us???

 

As far as pitching between Mark and Freddy, he is the BEST pitcher in the NL right now, probably in the whole league.  How can you say he will just be ok if he came to the AL.  The guy is flat out dominating people.  His ERA is under 2, that unbelieveable.

 

And for the minor leaguers, you entirely missed the point, im saying you cant guarantee they will pan out, for the MB Garland and A-row, we have tons of highly regarded prospects who have failed, how bout Borchard, Olivo.  There are 2 sides to the coin.  Im saying i dont care about the next few years, I want us to have the best chance to win now, if we dont, then fine, we lost.  But I want KW to give us the best players to get to the WS now.

 

You missed the entire point of my ERA statement. The fact that only three NL teams have scored more runs than the Sox tells you that there are not as many runs scored in the NL, meaning that AL teams generally have a higher run output. This means that Clemens ERA would be higher if he comes to the AL. AL pitchers rarely finish with ERA's under 3, much less one. His ERA won't stay that low all year, especially if he switches leagues. His ERA last year was 2.98, and nothing has changed. My statement was that his ERA would be somewhere between Mark and Freddy's ERA right now, which would put him somewhere in the 2.60-3.25 area. Isn't that pretty good? Wasn't Santana's ERA about 2.65 last year, which was considered one of the more dominant seasons in the AL in a while? Expecting him to finish with an ERA this low is ansanine, Maddux is the only guy in the last ten years I can think of finishing with an ERA under two. Clemens has never done it in his career, so I doubt he finally does it when he turns 42. But he'd still be better than most. I'd rather not give up the thin level of talent we have above AA for a half season from an expensive pitcher, and as I said, there's no telling whether or not he really makes a big improvement in our chances to win. There's some improvement, but he's just about as likely to come up with a middling start as our other pitchers.

[DBAHO]

This is what Kotex Boy said in his latest piece;

 

I don't see Roger Clemens, if on the market, approving a deal to the South Side, recalling a previous Sox regime that was more interested in Jaime Navarro in the late '90s.

 

And then there's this;

 

In an interview with ESPN last month, Clemens, who refused to commit to playing the entire 2005 season with the Astros, said he would permit a trade only to the Yankees.

[Dick Allen]

You mean like K-Rod didn't help the Angels?

The Sox don't have a K-Rod in the minors. Face it, so far when the Sox needed pitching help they have turned to BMac who seemed to get progressively worse every start, and Kevin Walker who has as much business wearing a White Sox uniform as I do. That's not promising. Maybe the pitching staff will continue to perform at its current level. It probably wouldn't be wise to assume this. The White Sox are going to need to add to their pitching depth THIS season, and from the looks of it, that help is not going to come from Charlotte or Birmingham. KW is going to have to go out and get it, and its going to cost him some prospects. Maybe a couple of these guys that are dealt will turn out to be good players eventually. But they can't help this year. Most people aren't too upset with Carlos Lee not being here, and look at what he's doing. Chances are small the guys the White Sox give up will ever put up the numbers Carlos Lee puts up.

[CanOfCorn]

The Sox don't have a K-Rod in the minors. Face it, so far when the Sox needed pitching help they have turned to BMac who seemed to get progressively worse every start, and Kevin Walker who has as much business wearing a White Sox uniform as I do. That's not promising. Maybe the pitching staff will continue to perform at its current level. It probably wouldn't be wise to assume this. The White Sox are going to need to add to their pitching depth THIS season, and from the looks of it, that help is not going to come from Charlotte or Birmingham. KW is going to have to go out and get it, and its going to cost him some prospects. Maybe a couple of these guys that are dealt will turn out to be good players eventually. But they can't help this year. Most people aren't too upset with Carlos Lee not being here, and look at what he's doing. Chances are small the guys the White Sox give up will ever put up the numbers Carlos Lee puts up.

 

I understand what you are saying, but players can put it together. Whether it's an arm angle adjustment, a batting stance adjustment or a headspace adjustment, sometimes things click. Jenks could be that guy. Baj could be that guy. Or not on any of them. You still have to decide who is worth keeping and who is worth trading to get what you need. But to say that everyone is available and we should trade them because we don't know what they will do...that will just decrease their value. Might as well not have a farm system at all then.

[RockRaines]

I understand what you are saying, but players can put it together.  Whether it's an arm angle adjustment, a batting stance adjustment or a headspace adjustment, sometimes things click.  Jenks could be that guy.  Baj could be that guy.  Or not on any of them.  You still have to decide who is worth keeping and who is worth trading to get what you need.  But to say that everyone is available and we should trade them because we don't know what they will do...that will just decrease their value.  Might as well not have a farm system at all then.

And im saying that aquiring a proven major leaguer is a better bet than trying to fix a minor leaguer who is unproven.

[nitetrain8601]

It's funny because it seems like most of those in support of trading for Schmidt are against trading for Clemens.

 

Lol I agree. Clemens is one of those super health freaks. I guarentee anyone he's in better shape than 90% of ballplayers out there. Can't believe people would actually reject the Rocket.

 

Realistically I don't see him coming here, but it's worth an inquiry. He could be the guy that makes this team sexy. Andy Pettite would be a guy I look at. He wouldn't cost as much as the other guys(Burnett & Shcmidt). He has a decent ERA as well.

[Steff]

This is what Kotex Boy said in his latest piece;

And then there's this;

 

 

Thanks DBAHO.

[DBAHO]

Thanks DBAHO.

That's ok Steff, I knew there was something on it, but it's been discussed so much, it was actually pretty hard to find where he actually said it.

[Steff]

That's ok Steff, I knew there was something on it, but it's been discussed so much, it was actually pretty hard to find where he actually said it. 

 

 

I don't pay enough attention to the what if's so I honestly had no idea.

 

 

Weird he said it last month... were there talks about it back then..? Although.. last month was only 5 days ago.

[CanOfCorn]

And im saying that aquiring a proven major leaguer is a better bet than trying to fix a minor leaguer who is unproven.

 

Then it can't be risk=reward. There's much less risk in dealing an unproven minor leaguer for the proven major leaguer. Sticking with the team we have now is a much bigger risk. No one thinks this team can continue this pace (except for us Sox fans of course ). Getting a Schmidt or Clemens or anyone that is "proven," is a watering down of risk.

[nitetrain8601]

I understand what you are saying, but players can put it together.  Whether it's an arm angle adjustment, a batting stance adjustment or a headspace adjustment, sometimes things click.  Jenks could be that guy.  Baj could be that guy.  Or not on any of them.  You still have to decide who is worth keeping and who is worth trading to get what you need.  But to say that everyone is available and we should trade them because we don't know what they will do...that will just decrease their value.  Might as well not have a farm system at all then.

 

Yeah, I hear where you're coming from, but Frankie had it when you saw him pitch. I think Jenks can be that guy in the bullpen, but as far as starting, no one can come in. BMac has proven he can't be that type of guy. El Duque has been oft injured. Clemens is a game changer just like Pods, cept a lot better.

[DBAHO]

I don't pay enough attention to the what if's so I honestly had no idea.

Weird he said it last month... were there talks about it back then..? Although.. last month was only 5 days ago.

With the way the Astros were playing before the last few weeks, a lot of people thought it was a certainity that he would be dealt, since there was an agreement b/w McLane and Clemens that he would be dealt to a world series contender if the Astros were out of the playoff race. But with the way they've been playing lately, and considering it might only take around 85-90 wins for the NL Wild Card, I don't think they'll trade him.

[RockRaines]

Then it can't be risk=reward.  There's much less risk in dealing an unproven minor leaguer for the proven major leaguer.  Sticking with the team we have now is a much bigger risk.  No one thinks this team can continue this pace (except for us Sox fans of course ).  Getting a Schmidt or Clemens or anyone that is "proven," is a watering down of risk.

Wrong, in your eyes its risking the future, and I say its going for the immediate reward.

Edited July 5, 2005 by RockRaines

[sircaffey]

Things change. If Clemens wants to go out on top, what's his best chance? The Sox, Yanks, or Astros? The Yanks are struggling around .500 with management pissed off, rumors running rampit, etc. He could have easily changed his mind.

[CanOfCorn]

Wrong, in your eyes its risking the future, and I say its going for the immediate reward.

 

Getting a number 1 starter isn't as risky as staying put. That's all I'm saying. Not even thinking about the future.

[RockRaines]

On another note, I read today that Billy Wagner is asking for a trade to a contender because he is contimplating retirement.

[CanOfCorn]

On another note, I read today that Billy Wagner is asking for a trade to a contender because he is contimplating retirement.

 

 

Really, where'd you see that?

[GreatScott82]

This trade has a 25-75 chance of happening. We have to start hoping that Houston starts losing. Right now they are 6 games back in the wild card chase. You figure if they can go 10 back by the all-star break- Houston wouldn't hesitate to trade him. I say if Houston goes 10 back by the break- there is a 50-50 chance of the Rocket flying on over to the south-side. So we have to cheer for Houston to lose!!

[DBAHO]

On another note, I read today that Billy Wagner is asking for a trade to a contender because he is contimplating retirement.

I think the Red Sox will have him pretty high on their "Guys to trade for" list at the moment.

[BobDylan]

I suspect the Stros would take no less than Anderson, BMAC and Sweeney or Young.

 

I don't think it'd take that much. He's very, very good and a proven winner in the post-season, but he's what, 41 years old? The Randy Johnson deal wasn't overwhelming and for whatever reason, Randy was more coveted than Clemens.

[ChWRoCk2]

I don't think it'd take that much. He's very, very good and a proven winner in the post-season, but he's what, 41 years old? The Randy Johnson deal wasn't overwhelming and for whatever reason, Randy was more coveted than Clemens.

ugh, were not getting clemens, so put this topic to rest, as good as he is and as much as you all want him he costs too much and hes not worth it for one year

[SpringfieldFan]

I think we need to pull for the Astros to win. Get Clemens off the market. In fact, I would like Schmidt, Oswalt, etc. all off the market. If they are on the market, it is more likely they will end up on a contender other then the Sox (i.e. BOS, NYY StL...), and that spells trouble for the Sox if we are really looking to win the WS.

Edited July 5, 2005 by SpringfieldFan

[That funky motion]

I think we need to pull for the Astros to win.  Get Clemens off the market.  In fact, I would like Schmidt, Oswalt, etc. all off the market.  If they are on the market, it is more likely they will end up on a contender other then the Sox (i.e. BOS, NYY StL...), and that spells trouble for the Sox if we are really looking to win the WS.

Great point!

[PutItOnTheBoard]

I think Clemens would reject a trade here, he ony wants to go to Boston or New York

thats kinda what im thinkin too....it would be great if we could somehow land clemens but i think its a long,long shot at best...plus his contract is just rediculous