Contreras

[VAfan]

Of course it was nice to see Jose get back on track tonight with a win. "Only" 3 walks and 1 long ball - his two biggest weaknesses. But of course it was against lowly Tampa Bay.

 

Who here thinks that this will start a run of good starts in the second half? Or do you think it is just a blip on his slide to a 5+ ERA? Or something in between?

[ChWRoCk2]

Of course it was nice to see Jose get back on track tonight with a win.  "Only" 3 walks and 1 long ball - his two biggest weaknesses.  But of course it was against lowly Tampa Bay.

 

Who here thinks that this will start a run of good starts in the second half?  Or do you think it is just a blip on his slide to a 5+ ERA?  Or something in between?

i think contreras will be fine, hes pitching as well as the best fourth starters in the league, i expected worse from him to tell ya the truth, if anything he gets better

[Rowand44]

He's perfectly fine as a 4th starter.

[DBAHO]

Contreras hasn't pitched that great at home, but he looked pretty good tonight. And those Devil Rays hit McCarthy pretty hard, and Garcia didn't have his best game last night. So yes, Contreras should be in our rotation in the 2nd half.

[wsox08]

Contreras will be fine... His control was improved this start and he will pick up... I promise..

[sox-r-us]

Jose will be fine. Again, the problem with Jose is the same as the problem with Garland (before this season). People have very high expectations from Jose based on his stuff. Maybe some day he will develop the consistency that goes with the stuff....but for now if fans would realize that Jose will have his bad days but still be good to pitch 6 to 7 innings >75% of the time he starts and not give up more than 3/4 runs in those starts, then we would all be fine.

 

Lower your expectations of Jose and we will all be fine. The guy could easily have 6-8 wins if the O had delivered like they have delivered for Jon this year. He is doing an admirable job of burning through the innings and resting our BP.

 

And he will have off days....that is ok.

[Capn12]

FYI it was 2 HRs that The Count of 3 and 2 gave up.

[YASNY]

Jose Contreras is better than a lot of guys who could be acquired as a number 4 starter. I can live with him holding down that spot.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I think Jose will be alright. Honestly, other than i'd say 3 starts, he's been awesome.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I think Jose will be alright. Honestly, other than i'd say 3 starts, he's been awesome. El Duque is who I would be worried about.

[Balta1701]

I can't think of a single team in the big leagues I'd rather be right now. Not a 1.

 

Think about this...we have 2 genuine number 1 starters and a genuine number 2 starter in Mark "God" Buehrle, Big Jon, and Freddy. We then have a 4th starter who is not lights out every single time, but who can a.) shut the opposition down completely on any given night and b.) gives us a chance to win in more than half the games he pitches.

 

And finally, we have a #5 guy who is currently our only starting pitcher with health questions, and he has started over 30 games in the playoffs in his career.

 

I couldn't be happier about our starting rotation.

[Y2HH]

Everyone has bad starts...hopefully Contreras finally realized that he needs to show that fastball otherwise they will sit back and wait on his hanging forks.

[tonyho7476]

Of course it was nice to see Jose get back on track tonight with a win.  "Only" 3 walks and 1 long ball - his two biggest weaknesses.  But of course it was against lowly Tampa Bay.

 

Who here thinks that this will start a run of good starts in the second half?  Or do you think it is just a blip on his slide to a 5+ ERA?  Or something in between?

 

Tampa Bay can hit...their problems are the bullpen...so 2 earned runs was good. Plus, he didn't really get himself in a lot of trouble yesterday...and it also seemed to coincide with him throwing more fastballs for striikes.

 

I think he will have a good second half and an ERA in the high 3s. I think he learned some things about himself last night. Mainly, throw the fastball for strikes to set up the Forkball.

[ceffa2000]

Hey question for everybody in regards to Contreras:

 

Do you think it becomes a big problem that Contreras hasn't learned much English yet?

 

My reasoning behind this question: So much with Contreras' pitching performances seems to have to do with whats going on in his head. As much, if not more, as any starting picther on our team, if he doesn't have his best stuff rolling on a given night, he psyches himself out of the game and gets into serious trouble. I don't know how much English Jose actually is able to speak but it must be hard for Coop and AJ to get points across to him like they can with other pitchers.

 

We have seen through the season how AJ is able to light a fire under some pitchers when they aren't pitching where they are supposed to. (An earlier Freddie game for instance) If this part of AJ's game is taken out, how much does it hurt his ability to calm Jose down? Same with Coop.

 

Now, I know Ozzie is able to talk to him and get him settled down during a game. Jose has complete trust in Ozzie and he said recently that he is the most comfortable in Chicago than he has ever been.

 

Just wanted to know if anybody has thought the same thing and if anybody had any other observations/thoughts about this. Thanks.

[SnB]

Contreras is a rocky starter, true.

But the majority of the time, he gets the job done. Every once and awhile he'll completely lose it, but for a 4 starter, I'll take that.

 

We have a perfect 3 man rotation for the playoffs without him. I'm not worried.

[YASNY]

I think we have enough guys around ... including the manager ... that can speak to Jose.

[Y2HH]

Yea, I think only Duque and Uribe can speak to him. Other than that, I would assume AJ thinks talking to the Count is as good as talking to a wall.

[GoodAsGould]

Yea, I think only Duque and Uribe can speak to him.  Other than that, I would assume AJ thinks talking to the Count is as good as talking to a wall.

 

 

Dont forget Timo Perez! And even if Contreras cant understand AJ he can still get his message across with how he says it you know.

[YASNY]

Yea, I think only Duque and Uribe can speak to him.  Other than that, I would assume AJ thinks talking to the Count is as good as talking to a wall.

 

Do they not speak Spanish in Cuba? All our latino players and coaches should have no trouble communicating with Contreras.

[ceffa2000]

That sounds better. I forgot how many other players that we have on the team that can speak Spanish. Maybe AJ can take crash courses in Spanish over the All-Star break.

[VAfan]

Wow, not a single negative comment - nor even a lingering doubt - among anyone who has posted so far.

 

I don't want to rain on the parade, but my sense is:

 

1. Contreras is a servicable 4th or 5th starter because he's healthy and seems to pitch well enough to win about half of the time. He can even occasionally pitch a great game.

 

2. He's completely unreliable, however, especially against good teams, so he's essentially worthless in the postseason. (Over the last three years he's 0-1 v. LAA (21.00 ERA) and 1-4 v. Bos (13.50 ERA).) I wouldn't even have him on the roster if we still have him.

 

I guess I also remain concerned that our top 3 pitchers may not be able to win a series against Boston or the Angels by themselves. Buehrle and Garland have essentially zero experience in the postseason (Buehrle pitched 2/3 of an inning in relief), and Garcia is a very good pitcher but can be beaten by good hitting teams.

 

So I hope KW is still looking for that 4th, reliable, guy who will win for us in the ALDS, ALCS, and WS. Contreras is not it. And if we had a separate post about El Duque, I don't think he's it either.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Wow, not a single negative comment - nor even a lingering doubt - among anyone who has posted so far. 

 

I don't want to rain on the parade, but my sense is:

 

1.  Contreras is a servicable 4th or 5th starter because he's healthy and seems to pitch well enough to win about half of the time.  He can even occasionally pitch a great game.

 

2.  He's completely unreliable, however, especially against good teams, so he's essentially worthless in the postseason.  (Over the last three years he's 0-1 v. LAA (21.00 ERA) and 1-4 v. Bos (13.50 ERA).)  I wouldn't even have him on the roster if we still have him. 

 

I guess I also remain concerned that our top 3 pitchers may not be able to win a series against Boston or the Angels by themselves.  Buehrle and Garland have essentially zero experience in the postseason (Buehrle pitched 2/3 of an inning in relief), and Garcia is a very good pitcher but can be beaten by good hitting teams. 

 

So I hope KW is still looking for that 4th, reliable, guy who will win for us in the ALDS, ALCS, and WS.  Contreras is not it.  And if we had a separate post about El Duque, I don't think he's it either.

 

 

It was just one month ago today that Jose was sitting on a 3.13 era. He went into a funk. But how surprised can you really be? For the most part, Jose has been good. He was cheated of atleast 3 wins earlier in the seaosn when he was pitching lights out. If his era were to remain around 4 or even lower, could anybody really complain? The guy is our 4th if not 5th best starter. As far as the playoffs go? What team uses a 5 man rotation in the playoffs? Jose would undoubtedly be moved to the pen. Leaving us with Buehrle, Garica, Garland, and Hernandez as our playoff rotation.

 

You say Buehrle/Garland/Garica have no playoff experience? And? What should we do, trade for 3 or 4 guys that do? It doesn't work that way. There's not a whole lot of quality starting pitching on the market. We're one of the few teams in baseball that can say we sport 5 legitimate starters. We don't need to trade away the farm when we already have a solid 5 man rotation.

[VAfan]

It was just one month ago today that Jose was sitting on a 3.13 era.  He went into a funk. But how surprised can you really be?  For the most part,  Jose has been good.  He was cheated of atleast 3 wins earlier in the seaosn when he was pitching lights out.  If his era were to remain around 4 or even lower,  could anybody really complain?  The guy is our 4th if not 5th best starter.  As far as the playoffs go?  What team uses a 5 man rotation in the playoffs?  Jose would undoubtedly be moved to the pen.  Leaving us with Buehrle,  Garica,  Garland,  and Hernandez as our playoff rotation. 

 

You say Buehrle/Garland/Garica have no playoff experience?  And?  What should we do,  trade for 3 or 4 guys that do?  It doesn't work that way.  There's not a  whole lot of quality starting pitching on the market.  We're one of the few teams in baseball that can say we sport 5 legitimate starters.  We don't need to trade away the farm when we already have a solid 5 man rotation.

 

I think Contreras earlier in the season was pitching about as well as he can. And if you look at his numbers over his short MLB career, he has now fallen into form by following a good month with a bad one. Basically he's a pitcher with good stuff who can't harness it consistently. He's not a guy I would be confident in trotting out in a game 4 of the ALDS or ALCS. I also think he would be worthless in the bullpen in the postseason. So if we haven't traded him, I would just leave him off the postseason roster.

 

But I also think it is critical to our postseason success that we have a 4th starter that will have a big edge over anyone our opponents will trot out for that game. Because even if Buerhle/Garcia/Garland go 2-1, winning that 4th game can make all the difference. Contreras doesn't give us that edge, nor does El Duque. We need someone better than the Angels' Paul Byrd and the BoSox' Tim Wakefield to put up some names of who we might face.

 

Do you think Contreras is better than both of them in a big game in their home ballparks knowing that both the Angels and BoSox have murdered him in the past? The Sox can't just hope Contreras gets magically better by then. They need to make a plan now for beating those teams and those pitchers if we want to make it to the World Series.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I think Contreras earlier in the season was pitching about as well as he can.  And if you look at his numbers over his short MLB career, he has now fallen into form by following a good month with a bad one.  Basically he's a pitcher with good stuff who can't harness it consistently.  He's not a guy I would be confident in trotting out in a game 4 of the ALDS or ALCS.  I also think he would be worthless in the bullpen in the postseason.  So if we haven't traded him, I would just leave him off the postseason roster.

 

He had a stretch of 4 starts where he pitched poorly in 3 of them. Besides that, he's been good.

 

But I also think it is critical to our postseason success that we have a 4th starter that will have a big edge over anyone our opponents will trot out for that game.  Because even if Buerhle/Garcia/Garland go 2-1, winning that 4th game can make all the difference.  Contreras doesn't give us that edge, nor does El Duque.  We need someone better than the Angels' Paul Byrd and the BoSox' Tim Wakefield to put up some names of who we might face.

 

Once again, nobody uses a 5 man rotation in the post-season. Contreras would be in the pen. And you do know El Duque's career playoff record is like 9-3?

 

Do you think Contreras is better than both of them in a big game in their home ballparks knowing that both the Angels and BoSox have murdered him in the past?  The Sox can't just hope Contreras gets magically better by then.  They need to make a plan now for beating those teams and those pitchers if we want to make it to the World Series.

 

Jose has had 2 pretty good starts against the Angels this year. He's given up just 5 earned runs in 13 innings. And yeah, the Red Sox have owned him. But like I said, he'd be in the pen come playoff time anyway.

Edited July 7, 2005 by Jordan4life_2005

[Balta1701]

Didn't I hear that Jose had an absolutely dominating start against Boston at some point last year?

 

Also on the spanish issue...um...don't we have a manager who also can get through to Jose? (There's a reason Ozzie ends up coming out instead of Cooper when Jose walks 2 guys)