Let It Be Known

[AddisonStSox]

Let it be known, I'm officially in the "I don't wish to see an upper-tier starting pitcher acquired before the deadline" camp. Perhaps this is because Count turned in such a great outing last night, perhaps its because I have been hitting the kool-aid much more than usual since last night, but I truly believe Contreras and Hernandez will be more than enough to get us to the post-season--a place where 3 dynamite starting pitchers can get you a pennant.

 

Rather than cripple the 2006 Sox and beyond by trading any of the Sox top, oh, I don't know, 4 or 5 prospects, let's hold on to them and see what happens.

 

Now, some of you may remember me calling to "trade the youngsters" and, to an extent, that still applies. I think Kenny may be able to get a guy like Joe Kennedy, Ted Lilly, Mark Redman, etc. by trading some talented A-ball prospects but leaving the crucial pieces of the future in tact.

 

Is there anyone else in this camp?

 

Acquire a starting pitcher? Sure. Robbing Peter to pay Paul? No thanks.

[Y2HH]

Getting TO the postseason is almost a given at this point.

 

It's STAYING in the postseason once there, and finishing it.

 

As it stands, I don't see this team staying together after this season unless Reinsdorf opens the wallet...all the salarys are going to take huge jumps except for those already signed long term.

 

We need another pitcher, and I don't think it's a starter we need, but an elite pensmen...

 

Getting to the postseason isn't enough...been there, done that.

[Y2HH]

Added to that, this team is good...very good, better than most, but dispite our #1 record, I do not think it's the best team in baseball.

 

We have to proove that.

[AddisonStSox]

It's important to note I've also adopted this stance because I just don't see a upper-tier starting pitcher available at the deadline that will drasticly improve the ballclub?

 

Schmidt? No. Not only would you have to give up an arm and a leg for him, but his stuff isn't Schmidt-esq this season. His arm is falling off and I just don't see him as the guy to get the Sox over the proverbial hump.

 

Zito? Well, he may not be going anywhere. If the A's stay in the race, and it looks like that may have a puncher's chance, I doubt Beane will be a seller. Even if Zito becomes available, is he the guy to lead the charge to the promised land? Boy, I don't know.

 

Clemens? Please.

 

A.J. Burnett? Now, that may be a guy to seriously consider.

 

Other than that, what else is out there in terms of dynamite starting pitching?

 

I really do think Kenny is going to make a move before the deadline--in fact, it's almost a given--but I don't really think the blockbuster to put the Sox over the top is out there.

[Wedge]

Getting TO the postseason is almost a given at this point.

 

It's STAYING in the postseason once there, and finishing it.

 

As it stands, I don't see this team staying together after this season unless Reinsdorf opens the wallet...all the salarys are going to take huge jumps except for those already signed long term.

 

We need another pitcher, and I don't think it's a starter we need, but an elite pensmen...

 

Getting to the postseason isn't enough...been there, done that.

 

Who on this team is not signed for 2006?

 

Garland, but he goes through Arbitration

Konerko

AJ

 

Anyone else?

 

EDIT: I am also in the "Don't get a elite starting pitcher unless the price is dirt cheap" camp

Edited July 7, 2005 by Wedge

[BlackBetsy]

The Count turned in a great outing last night? That was news to me. I saw him give up a couple of gopher balls and walk 3 guys in 6 innings of work. Luckily, Crawford bailed him out by getting picked off in the first (he would have scored ahead of Huff's homer) or his ERA would have went UP in this game.

 

If the Sox have a chance at a game 1 or game 2 starter in the playoffs without destroying the future of the franchise, they should take it.

 

As of this morning, they would face the Red Sox in the ALDS.

[Rowand44]

Who on this team is not signed for 2006?

 

Garland, but he goes through Arbitration

Konerko

AJ

 

Anyone else?

 

EDIT: I am also in the "Don't get a elite starting pitcher unless the price is dirt cheap" camp

AJ is arbitration eligible as well. Carl and Frank have options that won't be picked up though Frank will most likely get a reworked contract. Politte has a option that will be picked up. Shingo's a free agent and that would be it my friend.

[Hideaway Lights]

Hey Rowand44, if you didn't have Frank labeled as "the power" and Pods labeled as "the speed" in your signature picture, I honestly would have no idea which was which

[Punch and Judy Garland]

Contreras wasn't THAT good last night. He left a lot of pitches over the plate that the Rays failed to do things with. A better team would have parked 2-3 more balls. His command was mildly better but it was a shaky performance.

[Rowand44]

Hey Rowand44, if you didn't have Frank labeled as "the power" and Pods labeled as "the speed" in your signature picture, I honestly would have no idea which was which 

I know that's why I had deploder do that. I figured people would have trouble knowing which was which

[Rowand44]

Contreras wasn't THAT good last night. He left a lot of pitches over the plate that the Rays failed to do things with. A better team would have parked 2-3 more balls. His command was mildly better but it was a shaky performance.

Maybe, but lets not forget that the drays aren't a bad hitting club. Anyways, because of Jose's stuff when he's throwing fastballs and getting ahead in the count he can get away with plenty of mistakes.

[shakes]

Ted Lilly looked good again last night. His curveball is nasty.

 

I'm not saying he's the answer, but he could help and may come fairly cheap.

[AddisonStSox]

Contreras wasn't THAT good last night. He left a lot of pitches over the plate that the Rays failed to do things with. A better team would have parked 2-3 more balls. His command was mildly better but it was a shaky performance.

 

Upon further review, it wasn't a great outing and shouldn't have been label as such. However, Contreras did what he had to do to keep the Sox competitve and the team responded with a W. If he is capable of delievering similar starts from now until October, the Sox should have NO PROBLEM getting to the post-season.

 

The post-season, in and of itself, is a beast of its own. If El Duque comes as advertised--Big game, post-season starter--the Sox may already have the roster to win a pennant. Let's be honest, the Sox stand a better chance against a team like the Red Sox compared to the Rangers--a team that will simply thump you to death.

 

I fear Kenny may have to lose either a) a contributing member of the 2005 roster or, to a lesser degree, b ) a critical piece to the 2006 plans and beyond for a starter that may or may not do anything to dramatically improve the team with the best record in baseball.

[Hideaway Lights]

On topic, I think Contreras simply CANNOT be relied on for anything long term. I would be surprised if he compiles 10 wins this season. He's too inconsistent and generally mediocre. His pitch count is always high, and he always seems to be either in trouble or on the edge of trouble.

 

I am hoping we save Hernandez until August and then start handling him with kid gloves.

 

The fact of the matter is that unless Garland somehow falls off completely, Contreras really won't figure into the postseason much anyway. He has too little control to come out of the pen except in long relief. In a five game series it would go Buehrle/Garland/Garcia/Buehrle/Garland and in a seven game it would Buehrle/Garland/Garcia/Hernandez/Buehrle/Garland/Garcia

 

I agree with you that would probably don't need to deal for a starter, but not because Count is pitching necessarily well. I think our rotation is set for the postseason, and with a 10.5 game lead and the first two WC teams within our division, we probably can coast into the postseason.

Edited July 7, 2005 by Hideaway Lights

[southsideirish71]

Maybe, but lets not forget that the drays aren't a bad hitting club.  Anyways, because of Jose's stuff when he's throwing fastballs and getting ahead in the count he can get away with plenty of mistakes.

 

 

The count pitched better last night, but lets not go overboard here before we declare him ready for the 2nd half. This guys MO for years has been he looks great against crappy teams, then craps the bed against good teams. He will face the RedSox this month. Lets see what he does against them. I still am not comfortable with him starting any playoff games.

[Rowand44]

The count pitched better last night, but lets not go overboard here before we declare him ready for the 2nd half.  This guys MO for years has been he looks great against crappy teams, then craps the bed against good teams.  He will face the RedSox this month.  Lets see what he does against them.  I still am not comfortable with him starting any playoff games.

I've said before I'm perfectly fine with him being the 4th starter and he's a pretty damn good 4th starter but I wouldn't want him being a playoff starter either.

[tonyho7476]

Ted Lilly looked good again last night. His curveball is nasty.

 

I'm not saying he's the answer, but he could help and may come fairly cheap.

 

I'm with you...Lilly might be the way to go..pitching good

[CanOfCorn]

The other interesting thing about this year is that the teams that have been the sellers recently, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Detroit and to a lesser extent Baltimore, Toronto and Cleveland, are all closer to contending this year or down the road with the prospects they've received. So no one knows if they are going to trade players or keep them. Mark Redman is a great example. I would love to get this guy. He has finally learned how to pitch, but do the Pirates want to lose him. They have the makings of a pretty good rotation with him, Wells, Van Bent...Bento...you know the guy. And a good nucleus with Jason Bay, Craig Wilson, Jack Wilson and Mackowiak. I know Kenny likes to make a big splash early, but it makes me nervous because teams are probably going to wait longer which means it will take more to pry a player away.

 

The easiest teams to pry someone away from would be KC, Colorado and Tampa Bay...but are there any players on Colorado or TB that we would want?

[Rowand44]

The other interesting thing about this year is that the teams that have been the sellers recently, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Detroit and to a lesser extent Baltimore, Toronto and Cleveland, are all closer to contending this year or down the road with the prospects they've received.  So no one knows if they are going to trade players or keep them.  Mark Redman is a great example.  I would love to get this guy.  He has finally learned how to pitch, but do the Pirates want to lose him.  They have the makings of a pretty good rotation with him, Wells, Van Bent...Bento...you know the guy.  And a good nucleus with Jason Bay, Craig Wilson, Jack Wilson and Mackowiak.  I know Kenny likes to make a big splash early, but it makes me nervous because teams are probably going to wait longer which means it will take more to pry a player away.

 

The easiest teams to pry someone away from would be KC, Colorado and Tampa Bay...but are there any players on Colorado or TB that we would want?

Mark Redman is a perfect example of prospering from the national league. He's a very good pitcher in the nl and an average pitcher in the al.

[Wedge]

I'm with you...Lilly might be the way to go..pitching good

 

Yup. He'd be a good arm to get. Also, to whoever called Contreras shaky... I'd hate to hear what you'd call Schmidt after one of his outings!

[AddisonStSox]

The other interesting thing about this year is that the teams that have been the sellers recently, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Detroit and to a lesser extent Baltimore, Toronto and Cleveland, are all closer to contending this year or down the road with the prospects they've received.  So no one knows if they are going to trade players or keep them.  Mark Redman is a great example.  I would love to get this guy.  He has finally learned how to pitch, but do the Pirates want to lose him.  They have the makings of a pretty good rotation with him, Wells, Van Bent...Bento...you know the guy.  And a good nucleus with Jason Bay, Craig Wilson, Jack Wilson and Mackowiak.  I know Kenny likes to make a big splash early, but it makes me nervous because teams are probably going to wait longer which means it will take more to pry a player away.

 

The easiest teams to pry someone away from would be KC, Colorado and Tampa Bay...but are there any players on Colorado or TB that we would want?

 

Great post as you've mentioned a few things I'm sure a lot of us were thinking.

 

Redman really is a guy I'd love to have. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but he should also have some post-season expierence should he not?

 

However, I don't know if we can paint with a broad brush and say the longer you have to wait to make a trade, the harder it is to pry certain players away. In fact, I'd have to argue it's the opposite--at least some of the time. If Kenny were to go ahead and try to trade for that coveted starter now, he would have a much more difficult time that waiting until the deadline when some teams may be looking to sell. It's like Hawk said, now, it's all about patience and waiting for exactly the right moment to make the deal.

 

I think the days of the drastic fire-sale may be few and far between. With teams like Col, Pit, TB, Cin, etc. looking towards the future with a pretty good core of young guys--acquire via PAST deadline moves--they may not be looking to sell save nasty contracts, free agents, and such.

[C_LEE45]

Ted Lilly looked good again last night. His curveball is nasty.

 

I'm not saying he's the answer, but he could help and may come fairly cheap.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

aj burnett look good

[Rowand44]

Great post as you've mentioned a few things I'm sure a lot of us were thinking.

 

Redman really is a guy I'd love to have.  Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but he should also have some post-season expierence should he not?

 

However, I don't know if we can paint with a broad brush and say the longer you have to wait to make a trade, the harder it is to pry certain players away.  In fact, I'd have to argue it's the opposite--at least some of the time.  If Kenny were to go ahead and try to trade for that coveted starter now, he would have a much more difficult time that waiting until the deadline when some teams may be looking to sell.  It's like Hawk said, now, it's all about patience and waiting for exactly the right moment to make the deal. 

 

I think the days of the drastic fire-sale may be few and far between.  With teams like Col, Pit, TB, Cin, etc. looking towards the future with a pretty good core of young guys--acquire via PAST deadline moves--they may not be looking to sell save nasty contracts, free agents, and such.

Redman's era the last 4 years:

 

4.21

3.59

4.71

3.76

 

Can you guess which two years were in the al??

[Jordan4life_2007]

Why is everybody pickin on Jose? Damn. It was less then a month ago that the guy had an era of 3.13. He went into a little funk. Does that surprise anybody? He's our 4th if not 5th best starter. He's been cheated out of atleast 3 wins earlier this season. Honestly, I've been very happy with Jose to this point. If he can keep his era around 4 and give us a chance to win most of the time, I'm more than happy. The guy we need to worry about is Hernandez.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I called Contreras shaky. Yes Schmidt has been shaky this year for a big part of it, there is no question about it. Jason's track record is much better as he was better than Loaiza and Halladay in 03 but he clearly isn't that pitcher this year and health is the obvious reason why. Scmidt being shaky doesn't mean Contreras isn't, which makes the point of your post rather muddled.