Milkman delivers Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 03:33 PM) But from the reaction here, I'd guess that everyone is perfectly consistent except Willie. After all, we've been told that it's guaranteed the Sox would have won the game w/ Iguchi playing. B/c he's never, ever failed to execute, I suppose. Kind of like his flawless fielding to start the year. I understand your point, but Iguchi definitely wouldn't have f***ed up so many times. Nobody can prove it, but everyone knows it's true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 yes I expect more out of a fifth outfielder. It's ok to struggle that badly if you are a young player with upside but Timo is not young. I'd rather see Borch out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 01:42 PM) I understand your point, but Iguchi definitely wouldn't have f***ed up so many times. Nobody can prove it, but everyone knows it's true. I don't know where to find this stat to check, but I'm pretty sure that Hawk/DJ said during the game on Wednesday that Gooch was leading the league in productive outs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 03:47 PM) I don't know where to find this stat to check, but I'm pretty sure that Hawk/DJ said during the game on Wednesday that Gooch was leading the league in productive outs. Even with his decline in average recently, he'd probably still be batting .300 if he was a selfish hitter. Someone else said that before, and I believe it. The guy is all about fundamentals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 08:37 PM) Here's the key...their roles on THIS TEAM aren't going to change. Timo Perez will not start many games in front of Pods, Rowand, and Dye. Willie Harris will not start many games in front of Iguchi. These 2 have specific jobs; they are late inning replacements/pinch hitters and guys who do not get many at bats. If they can not produce in the limited at bats, then they are hurting the team by taking away the roster spot of someone who could produce with limited playing time, like a Gload or a Jenks. They're not going to put up better numbers than the guys in front of them. We all know that. But if they can't put up better numbers than the guys who could take their roster spot, then there's no reason for them to stay on the roster. But you're not going to learn anything about them from 70 abs. We don't know any more about these 2 than we did at the beginning of the season. All this 'looky looky at the ops now!' is silly. And good Lord, how much bitterness can you have b/c someone had one bad day. The most electrons are spilled here over the least important issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 08:42 PM) I understand your point, but Iguchi definitely wouldn't have f***ed up so many times. Nobody can prove it, but everyone knows it's true. So it's guaranteed that he would have moved Pods over safely twice? Despite his recent appetite for strikeouts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 03:55 PM) So it's guaranteed that he would have moved Pods over safely twice? Despite his recent appetite for strikeouts? No, but he certainly wouldn't have messed up as many times as Harris did. Willie f***ed up like 3 or 4 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 01:52 PM) But you're not going to learn anything about them from 70 abs. We don't know any more about these 2 than we did at the beginning of the season. All this 'looky looky at the ops now!' is silly. And good Lord, how much bitterness can you have b/c someone had one bad day. The most electrons are spilled here over the least important issue. If your goal is to learn about a player, then they should be in the minors where they can play every day. If your goal is to win a world series, then you shouldn't have people up on your roster to "Learn about" them. You should have people up on your roster because they can perform in the job they need to do. If we need a left handed bat off the bench and Harris can't handle it, it's time for someone else to get Harris's job. We can learn about them and give them a lot more at bats in AAA. The goal is not to learn about anyone. The goal is to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 01:55 PM) So it's guaranteed that he would have moved Pods over safely twice? Despite his recent appetite for strikeouts? He had a man on 2nd with less than 2 outs 3 times, and a man on 2nd with 2 outs 1 time. Each time there was less than 2 outs...Everett hit a fly ball or a base hit that would have knocked in the run if the guy was at 3rd. 2 productive outs generates 2 runs. 2 hits generates 2 runs. 1 hit and 1 productive out generates 2 runs. Any combination of that would have done so. I can't give you a guarantee that he'd have moved them over any more than I can guarantee you a world series win. But after yesterday's debacle, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt who I trust more to do that job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 09:02 PM) If your goal is to learn about a player, then they should be in the minors where they can play every day. If your goal is to win a world series, then you shouldn't have people up on your roster to "Learn about" them. You should have people up on your roster because they can perform in the job they need to do. If we need a left handed bat off the bench and Harris can't handle it, it's time for someone else to get Harris's job. We can learn about them and give them a lot more at bats in AAA. The goal is not to learn about anyone. The goal is to win. I'm referring to the posters here, tossing the 2005 stats around, not the team. I think Sox management has had their mind made up on both players -- whether they can handle their roles -- for quite a while now. But arguments being made for one or the other based on 70-odd abs each are ludicrous. Who's going to be convinced by that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 That is a big part of what the Sox have done this year so far. On most days, this team is capable of getting him over and getting him in. I believe Hawk said the other day that Carl and Uribe are 1-2 in Sac Flies. Frank always gets a bunch. Iguchi is the king of getting people over. Hell, even Crede has had some sac flies. Only 2 of that I can think have done poorly in thias category are AJ and PK. Uribe - 8 SF Carl - 6 SF Crede - 4 SF Iguchi - 4 SF Pods - 3 SF Rowand - 2 SF Thomas - 2 SF PK - 1 SF AJ - 1 SF Thats a total of 31. That is 31 manufactured runs. Not counting the SB's, WP's, sac bunts, etc. Little things kids, little things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 On top of that, I'd say that A.J. is probably the unluckiest player on the team in terms of having his balls fall just foul or having his lined shots go right to someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 02:55 PM) So it's guaranteed that he would have moved Pods over safely twice? Despite his recent appetite for strikeouts? Honestly, I'd say it's pretty close to a guarantee, he always gets the job done when he has to, always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 9, 2005 -> 06:14 PM) Honestly, I'd say it's pretty close to a guarantee, he always gets the job done when he has to, always. His ability to slap a grounder to or past the 2B all the time is like Franks ability to hit HR's all the time...it is a given and that is what we know he wants to do and frequrently succeeds. If anyone really wants to argue that Willie did something right last night.....uhhh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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