TRADE THREAD III ~July 9 - July 15

[Texsox]

Dreamers and Schemers

Whispers and Shouts

Fords and Billy Beemers

Grins and Pouts

[beck72]

I'll be the first to pose a question or two. So here goes:

1] how would you feel about a trade involving basically, Omar Vizquel and Juan Uribe?

2] Would it take say a bullpen arm like Bajenaru along with Uribe to make it worth SF's while?

3] Would SF even want Uribe [though getting a 25 yr old who can start at both SS and 2B is hard to find]?

[YASNY]

I'll be the first to pose a question or two. So here goes:

1] how would you feel about a trade involving basically, Omar Vizquel and Juan Uribe?

2] Would it take say a bullpen arm like Bajenaru along with Uribe to make it worth SF's while?

3] Would SF even want Uribe [though getting a 25 yr old who can start at both SS and 2B is hard to find]?

 

They should be thrilled with an offer of Uribe for Vizquel ... straight up.

[beck72]

They should be thrilled with an offer of Uribe for Vizquel ... straight up.

I would think so as well. But you never know

[GoodAsGould]

I'll be the first to pose a question or two. So here goes:

1] how would you feel about a trade involving basically, Omar Vizquel and Juan Uribe?

2] Would it take say a bullpen arm like Bajenaru along with Uribe to make it worth SF's while?

3] Would SF even want Uribe [though getting a 25 yr old who can start at both SS and 2B is hard to find]?

 

 

I dont think we would trade just for Vizquel, Only way we get him in my opinion is if we also get Schmidt which than would involve much more. But since Schmidt hasnt impressed scouts at all and the giants asking price... I dont see a trade happening with the Giants at all.

 

Id like KW to sell the farm for a real ace though. Find out what it would take to get guys like Halladay, Oswalt, possibly Rogers, Zito, Burnett, Sheets, Oliver Perez, Vazquez, and Odalis Perez.

 

Some of those pitchers would be really hard to get but if any of those teams would be willing to deal do whatevr it takes to get them. Halladay and Sheets are very unlikely with Sheets just signing a contract but hey stranger things have happened. And I know for a fact Oliver Perez isnt untouchable due to the fact I think Ken Rosenthal or whatevr said the only 2 untouchables for the pirates are Jason Bay and Jack Wilson... might of been another but wasnt Perez.

[rangercal]

They should be thrilled with an offer of Uribe for Vizquel ... straight up.

I would not do it. Uribe plays good/bad in stretches. He proved that last year. Here we have a young ss with above average D who hit .283 and 23 hrs and has decent speed. You want to trade him straight up for the aging vizquel? Are you nuts? Uribe is not hurting us as much as people tend to think. If Vizquel were 2 years younger then yes. Plus why trade for a guy who didn't think much about signing here 7 months ago? I don't want him. I am also tired of getting former indians past their prime. People in cleveland are laughing at us.

[YASNY]

I would not do it. Uribe plays good/bad  in stretches.  He proved that last year.  Here we have a young ss with above average D who hit .283 and 23 hrs and has decent speed.  You want to trade him straight up for the aging vizquel? Are you nuts? Uribe is not hurting us as much as people tend to think.  If Vizquel were 2 years younger then yes.  Plus why trade for a guy who didn't think much about signing here 7 months ago? I don't want him.  I am also tired of getting former indians past their prime. People in  cleveland are laughing at us.

 

I wouldn't do it, either. I was just stating the Giants should be thrilled with an offer like that.

[beck72]

I'll put forth my opinions.

1] I think the Sox need another bat like Vizquel in order to go deep into the playoffs [that Ozzie just said another bat might be needed could be a sign--a bat off the bench wouldn't make that much of a difference. But SS is just about the only spot to get an everyday player in.] Think of what would happen if Pods or Iguchi went down. Vizquel fits that mold perfectly. With Ozuna a good backup for SS, he could give Vizquel time off. Also, Robert Valido seems 2 years away from helping out the sox. Uribe would be missed. But he doesn't seem the player he was in 2004 for whatever reason. And not the type of hitter a team can count on to produce in the playoffs, hitting against the best pitching in baseball. Omar would be fine for the next 2 yrs, and prob. the 3rd as well, for not much more than it would cost for Uribe.

2] A bullpen arm might be needed to sweeten the deal, to placate fans. Baj might be too high but another decent arm could help [look at Gary Majewski's success in the everett deal---even though he seemed like a AAAA guy]

3] SF could use help at SS and 2B. They have Durham for another yr at 2B. But no real prospects at either spot in AA or AAA. A guy with Uribe's defense and pop to his bat could be valuable somewhere, esp. for an old team that needs to get young

[beck72]

I would not do it. Uribe plays good/bad  in stretches.  He proved that last year.  Here we have a young ss with above average D who hit .283 and 23 hrs and has decent speed.  You want to trade him straight up for the aging vizquel? Are you nuts? Uribe is not hurting us as much as people tend to think.  If Vizquel were 2 years younger then yes.  Plus why trade for a guy who didn't think much about signing here 7 months ago? I don't want him.  I am also tired of getting former indians past their prime. People in  cleveland are laughing at us.

Ozzie just said the sox might need another bat. Where would that bat play? Who would be replaced? What position are the sox brain trust unhappy with? My bet is SS.

 

The "aging" Vizquel is having another .300 yr, hitting even better vs. RHP [ a very weak area for the sox]. I know Uribe is talented. But in order to win in the playoffs, IMO, a deal like this should be made to improve the club.

 

as far as the people in Clev. laughing at us, I don't think so and I don't care. I just care about the sox playing deep into Oct. And playing solid baseball for yrs to come. Vizquel could easily play another 2 yrs at a high level, the exact time Uribe's contract was up, and Valido could be ready.

[beck72]

BTW, doesn't Pablo Ozuna remind anyone of the 2004 Juan Uribe? I get the feeling at times he's a little complacent, and has lost a little of the hunger that made him exciting to watch last year. Didn't Uribe also come to camp a little overweight?

 

I may be off base. But if a move is made to get another SS like Vizquel here [could be that uribe would be a reserve, who knows--not likely with his new contract] there should be something to it

[upnorthsox]

I'll put forth my opinions.

1] I think the Sox need another bat like Vizquel in order to go deep into the playoffs [that Ozzie just said another bat might be needed could be a sign--a bat off the bench wouldn't make that much of a difference. But SS is just about the only spot to get an everyday player in.] Think of what would happen if Pods or Iguchi went down. Vizquel fits that mold perfectly. With Ozuna a good backup for SS, he could give Vizquel time off. Also, Robert Valido seems 2 years away from helping out the sox. Uribe would be missed. But he doesn't seem the player he was in 2004 for whatever reason. And not the type of hitter a team can count on to produce in the playoffs, hitting against the best pitching in baseball. Omar would be fine for the next 2 yrs, and prob. the 3rd as well, for not much more than it would cost for Uribe.

2] A bullpen arm might be needed to sweeten the deal, to placate fans. Baj might be too high but another decent arm could help [look at Gary Majewski's success in the everett deal---even though he seemed like a AAAA guy]

3] SF could use help at SS and 2B. They have Durham for another yr at 2B. But no real prospects at either spot in AA or AAA. A guy with Uribe's defense and pop to his bat could be valuable somewhere, esp. for an old team that needs to get young

 

Uribe, Harris, and a Munoz/Stewart/Adkins type for Vizquel and Scott Erye?

 

SF gets a young DP combo and we get the bat upgrade plus the lefty for the pen we need.

[beck72]

Uribe, Harris, and a Munoz/Stewart/Adkins type for Vizquel and Scott Erye?

 

SF gets a young DP combo and we get the bat upgrade plus the lefty for the pen we need.

 

I'd be weary of letting Harris go as he still could be good insurance in case Tad gets hurt this year.

[rangercal]

I wouldn't do it, either.  I was just stating the Giants should be thrilled with an offer like that.

sorry.

[upnorthsox]

I'd be weary of letting Harris go as he still could be good insurance in case Tad gets hurt this year.

 

So would I Beck, but either he or Timo is going anyhow and if you can package one up in a trade you're probably better off. There will be ute IFers out there after the deadline too.

[rangercal]

Ozzie just said the sox might need another bat. Where would that bat play? Who would be replaced? What position are the sox brain trust unhappy with? My bet is SS.

 

The "aging" Vizquel is having another .300 yr, hitting even better vs. RHP [ a very weak area for the sox]. I know Uribe is talented. But in order to win in the playoffs, IMO, a deal like this should be made to improve the club.

 

as far as the people in Clev. laughing at us, I don't think so and I don't care. I just care about the sox playing deep into Oct. And playing solid baseball for yrs to come. Vizquel could easily play another 2 yrs at a high level, the exact time Uribe's contract was up, and Valido could be ready.

You dont trade a young ss when is stock is low. Uribe brings to the table what #'s don't show. Passion and energy that rubs off on everyone around him. I swear, I see uribe having the most fun out there. I would rather have him right now then vizquel. Uribe wants to be on this team. I can't say the same for vizquel. You really think Uribe's bat is hurting us? One good month for Uribe will put him close to .300. We still have an entire half of baseball to go. Dye was hitting .216 and is now over .270. Rowand was stuggling too. We still have close to 80 games left. I am willing to bet Uribe will have a stronger 2nd half then Omar Vizquel. I see old players have good 1st halves all the time, then they just fizzle down the stretch because 162 games is a lot. We should have stuck with rowand at cf in 2003 and we should stick with Uribe in 2005.

[beck72]

So would I Beck,  but either he or Timo is going anyhow and if you can package one up in a trade you're probably better off. There will be ute IFers out there after the deadline too.

True. At least Willie has a minor league option left

[upnorthsox]

You dont trade a young ss when is stock is low. Uribe brings to the table what #'s don't show. Passion and energy that rubs off on everyone around him. I swear, I see uribe having the most fun out there. I would rather have him right now then vizquel. Uribe wants to be on this team. I can't say the same for vizquel.  You really think Uribe's bat is hurting us? One good month for Uribe will put him close to .300. We still have an entire half of baseball to go.  Dye was hitting .216 and is now over .270.  Rowand was stuggling too. We still have close to 80 games left.  I am willing to bet Uribe will have a stronger 2nd half then Omar Vizquel. I see old players have good 1st halves all the time, then they just fizzle down the stretch because 162 games  is a lot.  We should have stuck with rowand at cf in 2003 and we should stick with Uribe in 2005.

 

Normally yes you don't trade low but we're trying to get to a WS so you sometimes have to do what's best at the moment. Uribe's hitting around his career avg right now, the fluke definitely appears to be last yr. I'm in no rush to trade him though but if you want upgrade a bat in the lineup and you are looking at what's available out there then he's the most logical choice.

[beck72]

You dont trade a young ss when is stock is low. Uribe brings to the table what #'s don't show. Passion and energy that rubs off on everyone around him. I swear, I see uribe having the most fun out there. I would rather have him right now then vizquel. Uribe wants to be on this team. I can't say the same for vizquel.  You really think Uribe's bat is hurting us? One good month for Uribe will put him close to .300. We still have an entire half of baseball to go.  Dye was hitting .216 and is now over .270.  Rowand was stuggling too. We still have close to 80 games left.  I am willing to bet Uribe will have a stronger 2nd half then Omar Vizquel. I see old players have good 1st halves all the time, then they just fizzle down the stretch because 162 games  is a lot.  We should have stuck with rowand at cf in 2003 and we should stick with Uribe in 2005.

 

I don't see the same passion from Uribe that he showed last year. Add in the fact that he was overweight coming onto camp, maybe the sox know something we fans don't.

 

My concern is Uribe being an easy out vs. good to very good pitching. the pitchers the sox will face in Oct. could make easy work of Uirbe. I don't see that with Vizquel. Uribe just doesn't seem to fit the sox brand of ball this yr with his bat. his glove yes. Just not his all or nothing bat. With Joe Crede in the same boat, the sox can only have one guy be a good glove, weaker, streaky bat.

 

Give Vizquel days off with Ozuna [showing the passion, hustle and energy Uribe showed last year, IMO] and he could be rested for Oct.

[beck72]

Normally yes you don't trade low but we're trying to get to a WS so you sometimes have to do what's best at the moment. Uribe's hitting around his career avg right now, the fluke definitely appears to be last yr. I'm in no rush to trade him though but if you want upgrade a bat in the lineup and you are looking at what's available out there then he's the most logical choice.

 

Well said. And it's not like the sox would be giving up the future. Vizquel could be very productive for the next 2 1/2 yrs. If the sox think Robert Valido can play in 2, 3 yrs, I'd say Uribe could be a very good trade chip for a big chance at winning the W.S. this yr and the next few yrs.

 

Uribe will probably never be a .300 hitter. The .280 looks like his best [and came while not playing everyday too]. If the sox can upgrade 50 points in avg, near 80-100 in OBP, and give them another #1 or #2 hitter to give them what Pods and Iguchi have this yr, I think the sox should jump at the chance. Esp. for a guy like Vizquel who by all accounts is a pro's pro

[YASNY]

A trade I'd lokk at trying to make would be to ship Timo and a mid-grade pitching propect to the Pirates for Lawton. He's on the block. The Pirates would save about $3M in salary and Timo could be Lawton's replacement. We'd upgrade that LH bat off the bench.

[rangercal]

Beck,

 

I don't see the same passion from Uribe that he showed last year.

You can't be serious? You don't try to pull that play on Derek Lee earlier this year if you don't have passion. Did you see that pick off play the other day against TB? Uribe cares. He has passion.

 

Add in the fact that he was overweight coming onto camp,

 

He didn't gain as much weight that people tend to believe. I seen him at soxfest, he looked a little heavier, but thats what camp is for, to get back in shape. Frank has never come in overweight? Uribe is the only player to come in overweght?

 

My concern is Uribe being an easy out vs. good to very good pitching. the pitchers the sox will face in Oct. could make easy work of Uirbe.

Uribe is hitting the following against these possible playoff pitchers :

Johan santana .267

Randy Johnson .273

kenny Rogers .300

Mike Mussina .429

Curt Schilling .238

Matt Clement .333

 

These pitchers pretty much hold the opposition to under a .250 BA. He's Not exactly an easy out. Maybe it's just me.

 

I don't see that with Vizquel.

Johan santana .235

Randy Johnson .263

Curt Schilling .111

Kenny Rogers .271

Mike Mussina .260

no at bats vs clement

 

Uribe just doesn't seem to fit the sox brand of ball this yr with his bat. his glove yes

What about A.J.? who is batting .247 What about Gooch who Batted .244 In June and .250 In july so far. Uribe is hitting .333 in July so far. Like I said he is up and down. Dye is just as streaky as uribe. No one is calling for Dye's head because he is hot right now. Dye hit .175 in april and can very well do it again in October. Last year Uribe hit .289 in August and .353 in September. Uribe will be a strong finisher. Vizquel is hitting .219 the last 3 years in september. Guess what? he is another year older.

 

Just not his all or nothing bat.

Uribe doesn't bunt? move runners over? hit sacrafice flys?

 

With Joe Crede in the same boat, the sox can only have one guy be a good glove, weaker, streaky bat.

Why uribe out and not crede? I bet most people would rather have uribe at bat in a game tying/winning situation over crede.

 

 

Give Vizquel days off with Ozuna [showing the passion, hustle and energy Uribe showed last year, IMO] and he could be rested for Oct.

I dont know how much passion and energy he can possibly have for a team he didn't even want to sign with a 1/2 year ago. Edited July 9, 2005 by rangercal

[That funky motion]

I agree with the idea that Uribe fits better than Crede. Crede cant play Ozzie ball,he's slow and is not going to be here next year anyway!

Edited July 9, 2005 by That funky motion

[knightni]

I agree with the idea that Uribe fits better than Crede. Crede cant play Ozzie ball,he's slow and is not going to be here next year anyway!

I bet that Crede WILL be here next year.

 

He is still cheap and won't be a free agent for another season.

[upnorthsox]

I bet that Crede WILL be here next year.

 

He is still cheap and won't be a free agent for another season.

 

Make that another 3 seasons.

[Kalapse]

I agree with the idea that Uribe fits better than Crede. Crede cant play Ozzie ball,he's slow and is not going to be here next year anyway!

Where do people get this s*** from. Crede will be here next year, he's arbitration eligible. Either the Sox will give him a new 1 year/multi year contract or he'll go to arb. and get nothing from the arbitrator. Crede will be here next year.