TRADE THREAD III ~July 9 - July 15

[Guest JimH]

Quick's modem is down, he is asking me to type this for him, we are on the phone.

 

The Cards did not try to get Eckstein, they had to get a SS to replace Renteria. Bosox and Yankees have not traditionally been scrappy.

 

By the way, he also says a giant "f*** you" to everybody on this site, he hates all of you.

[Chisoxfn]

D-backs had a horribly overage lineup, except for the 1-2 punch, but were still very overmatched on paper.  The Angels were extremely overmatch, not only in the lineup but in the bullpen, starting rotation.  The Marlins were overmatched in every level of the playoffs, but were very together and motivated, which helped them prevail.  If you remember correctly, one of the reason that the Yankees starting winning WS titles, was because the team was cohesive and scrappy, it wasnt until after that time period that they started really buying whole teams.

As far as the Angels go, that bullpen was an asset. They had Donnelly, Weber (who was kicking butt that year), Percy and the well known emergence of Frankie Rodriguez. Donnelly and Weber had few rough games in the post-season but that pen was a strength and has been a strength ever since.

 

Won't disagree with you on the Dbacks lineup, however, never underestimate what two horses can do for a team in the playoffs cause RJ and Curt were insane.

 

And your right on the Yanks. The other big thing is they didn't just have a bunch of guys that could hit hr's, they also had guys willing to move people around and play to their roles. Right now they are stuck with quite a few players that just don't play smart baseball and it hurts them. They also are sagged with a lot of past talents who are not in their prime anymore.

[Kyyle23]

Its funny how you completely ignore the rest of the post.  The reason he is good in the 1st half is because he is fresh.  Thats where the 20 day suspension comes in.  To keep him fresh for the 2nd half.

 

Its Funny how you ignore his post all-star break numbers being significantly worse than his pre all-star game numbers.

 

So you welcome a pitcher with baggage and a 20 game suspension, on the hunch that Rogers wont be his regular second half self?

 

Thats a pretty big gamble on the Gambler. Ill pass

[RockRaines]

Quick's modem is down, he is asking me to type this for him, we are on the phone.

 

The Cards did not try to get Eckstein, they had to get a SS to replace Renteria.  Bosox and Yankees have not traditionally been scrappy.

 

By the way, he also says a giant "f*** you" to everybody on this site, he hates all of you.

tell him his seats suck then.

[quickman]

Tell that to the Marlins, Angels, Diamondbacks etc etc etc

 

 

All these teams won the world series with superstars on there team. I hope you do not think that the Whitesox have a better team than any of these three.

[Guest JimH]

tell him his seats suck then.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think you just did Rock

[RockRaines]

I think you just did Rock 

hahaha, cheap shots

[quickman]

I'm with you, Cards are the best team in baseball (especially if Mulder pitches like he can).  Thats not a knock on the Sox at all, rather a tribute to how good I think the Cards are. 

 

However, the addition of Jason Schmidt and Omar Vizquel or players of that magnitude could definately even up the playing field and put the Sox on par with the Cards (they wouldn't have the offense, but that pitching staff would be very nice).

 

 

We are on the same page.

[RockRaines]

All these teams won the world series with superstars on there team. I hope you do not think that the Whitesox have a better team than any of these three.

we have 4 all stars, how many did the Angels, D-backs and Marlins have?

[GoodAsGould]

we have 4 all stars, how many did the Angels, D-backs and Marlins have?

 

I think we are comparable teams to the Angels and Marlins... but D-Backs basicly won the series because of RJ/Schilling not because the rest of the team.

[southsider2k5]

tell him his seats suck then.

 

And Willie Harris=MVP

[Chisoxfn]

I think we are comparable teams to the Angels and Marlins... but D-Backs basicly won the series because of RJ/Schilling not because the rest of the team.

If the Sox get Jason Schmidt and he pitches like he's capable (thats obviously a question-mark) than they do will have the ability go into the playoffs and potentially dominate based on pitching.

 

Personally I'd like to see the Sox add Schmidt, Vizquel, and a quality reliever. If they do that they'd have 4 good starters (Contreras as the 5th and into the pen in the playoffs) as well as a very strong pen (especially if they could add a guy like Everyday Eddie) and a very solid lineup. Just imagine moving Guchi down to the 6th spot with Vizquel in the 2 hole. Guchi is the type of player that could produce at a higher clip (production wise) if moved down. Not to say Guchi isn't a good 2 hole hitter (he is) but he could also have a lot of success in a more production oriented spot, imo.

 

I think Kenny should go all out and there are only a few pieces I'd really hold onto. Brandon McCarthy is one of the guys I'd like to see the Sox keep, but the only can't trade guy I have is Chris Young (I'll deal other guys).

[quickman]

we have 4 all stars, how many did the Angels, D-backs and Marlins have?

 

 

We have allstars but I wouldn't say we have superstars. I don't think Garland is a superstar, or Pods. Allstars to me mean they had good first halves. LEts just end this because we disagree and nothing you or I will say will convince me otherwise. I say you need to get better players, you say they are good as they stand. I will be more than happy to say your right..but your not!

[SHAFTR]

D-backs had a horribly overage lineup, except for the 1-2 punch, but were still very overmatched on paper.  The Angels were extremely overmatch, not only in the lineup but in the bullpen, starting rotation.  The Marlins were overmatched in every level of the playoffs, but were very together and motivated, which helped them prevail.  If you remember correctly, one of the reason that the Yankees starting winning WS titles, was because the team was cohesive and scrappy, it wasnt until after that time period that they started really buying whole teams.

 

The Diamondbacks, outside of Luis Gonzalez, had a rather unspectacular lineup. The Schilling/Johnson thing really helped them out.

 

The Angels had a great, great bullpen that year. They had a very good line-up as well.

Spiezo, Glaus, Anderson, Salmon and Fullmer all had very good years. Their rotation featured 4 guys who had ERAs in the 3s.

 

The Marlins had some great years from Pudge, Derrek Lee, & Lowell along with the shot in the arm Pierre and Cabrera were giving them by getting better and better as that year went on. AIn the rotation, Redman, Willis and Becket all had ERAs under 3.5. Pavano and Penny were average, at worst (ERAs in the low 4s).

 

The yankees were still probably better, but these teams still had quite a bit of talent.

[quickman]

If the Sox get Jason Schmidt and he pitches like he's capable (thats obviously a question-mark) than they do will have the ability go into the playoffs and potentially dominate based on pitching.

 

Personally I'd like to see the Sox add Schmidt, Vizquel, and a quality reliever.  If they do that they'd have 4 good starters (Contreras as the 5th and into the pen in the playoffs) as well as a very strong pen (especially if they could add a guy like Everyday Eddie) and a very solid lineup.  Just imagine moving Guchi down to the 6th spot with Vizquel in the 2 hole.  Guchi is the type of player that could produce at a higher clip (production wise) if moved down.  Not to say Guchi isn't a good 2 hole hitter (he is) but he could also have a lot of success in a more production oriented spot, imo. 

 

I think Kenny should go all out and there are only a few pieces I'd really hold onto.  Brandon McCarthy is one of the guys I'd like to see the Sox keep, but the only can't trade guy I have is Chris Young (I'll deal other guys).

 

 

YES YEs and I don't care which minor league players they trade.

[Chisoxfn]

We have allstars but I wouldn't say we have superstars. I don't think Garland is a superstar, or Pods. Allstars to me mean they had good first halves. LEts just end this because we disagree and nothing you or I will say will convince me otherwise. I say you need to get better players, you say they are good as they stand. I will be more than happy to say your right..but your not!

Only superstar the Sox may have is Frank Thomas and who knows with that. If Frank gets his average up to the .275 range at the end of the season and stays healthy he could have a major impact the way he's clobbering the ball (power wise).

 

Big big if though and once again I agree though. Other teams are going to get better, Sox will too (Kenny has the guts...hopefully it will pan out).

[ZoomSlowik]

All these teams won the world series with superstars on there team. I hope you do not think that the Whitesox have a better team than any of these three.

 

I would say that this year's Sox team was better than all of those teams as a whole. The Angels were not a loaded team by any stretch of the imagination. Their lineup was built around guys like Troy Glaus, Garrett Anderson, Darin Erstad, and David Eckstein. So basically their lineup now, minus Vlad and adding Glaus. Not exactly superstar laden. Their starting staff was even worse, with guys like Jared Washburn, Kevin Appier, and Ramon Ortiz. The only thing I'd call solid on that team was the bullpen, and I certainly wouldn't call anyone they had a superstar. The Marlins were similar. Their starters were highly mediocre in the regular season outside of Dontrelle's excellent start, and they had a patchwork bullpen. Willis, Beckett, Pavano, and Redman might be considered decent players now, but not at that time. As for their lineup, the closest thing they had to a superstar was Pudge. They had some solid guys like Pierre, Castillo, Lee, and Lowell, and Cabrera was a 20 year old rookie. It's better than our lineup, but only moderately. As for the D-Backs, they had three good players: Johnson, Schilling, and Louis Gonzalez. The rest of their lineup and rotation was a joke. Kim was the only credible reliever, and he damn near blew the series for them. All of those teams beat much more talented Yankees' teams.

 

Outside of getting another decent hitter on the left side of the infield, the Sox don't have a ton of holes to fill. Their bullpen has been excellent, and their starters have the best ERA of any in the AL. I like how we'd matchup against any team we could face excluding the Cards. I don't think you could ask for much more.

Edited July 12, 2005 by ZoomSlowik

[quickman]

The Diamondbacks, outside of Luis Gonzalez, had a rather unspectacular lineup.  The Schilling/Johnson thing really helped them out. 

 

The Angels had a great, great bullpen that year.  They had a very good line-up as well.

Spiezo, Glaus, Anderson, Salmon and Fullmer all had very good years.  Their rotation featured 4 guys who had ERAs in the 3s.

 

The Marlins had some great years from Pudge, Derrek Lee, & Lowell along with the shot in the arm Pierre and Cabrera were giving them by getting better and better as that year went on.  AIn the rotation, Redman, Willis and Becket all had ERAs under 3.5.  Pavano and Penny were average, at worst (ERAs in the low 4s).

 

The yankees were still probably better, but these teams still had quite a bit of talent.

 

 

And we don't have a guy hitting over 300. We do have pitching though and thats what we need.

[Guest JimH]

YES YEs and I don't care which minor league players they trade.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sounds like you are having sex over there, take it easy on yourself. You know what I'm sayin'.

[Chisoxfn]

And we don't have a guy hitting over 300. We do have pitching though and thats what we need.

Exactly, make what got you to this point stronger (ie the rotation and pen) while adding a guy like Vizquel to pump a little juice into the lineup.

 

The move makes sense cause Uribe can turn into an ultimate platoon guy (and he will still play in probably 4 games a week between 3rd, SS, and 2B) and is a great backup plan if anyone goes down. Ozuna as the last guy off the bench (with stellar speed).

[Milkman delivers]

imagine moving Guchi down to the 6th spot with Vizquel in the 2 hole.

 

I don't know if I like that idea. Iguchi has been perfect in the 2 slot. If Vizquel comes in, he should be down in the order, possibly 9th to be able to have Vizquel, Pods, and Iguchi up in order.

[quickman]

I don't know if I like that idea.  Iguchi has been perfect in the 2 slot.  If Vizquel comes in, he should be down in the order, possibly 9th to be able to have Vizquel, Pods, and Iguchi up in order.

 

 

Milkman normally I would agree 100% and I just still might, but the option of moving iguchi down plays to iguchis natural hitting style. This is the very first year he has ever batted second, and he is still adjusting, Doing well I might add. I think this scenerio gives us tremendous flexability.

[Balta1701]

Milkman normally I would agree 100% and I just still might, but the option of moving iguchi down plays to iguchis natural hitting style. This is the very first year he has ever batted second, and he is still adjusting, Doing well I might add. I think this scenerio gives us tremendous flexability.

He's still adjusting and doing an incredible job. Why would we want to make him adjust to something else?

[Chisoxfn]

I don't know if I like that idea.  Iguchi has been perfect in the 2 slot.  If Vizquel comes in, he should be down in the order, possibly 9th to be able to have Vizquel, Pods, and Iguchi up in order.

I could buy that method. I just feel Iguchi is made to be a .280 hitter with 15-20 Hr's and good gap power. If he moves to a production spot I think you'll see that come out and at the same time the Sox will be sliding in a better version of Iguchi (the 2 hole hitter Iguchi) emerge in the 2 spot in Omar Vizquel (who flat out can handle a bat with the best of them).

 

To me its basically allowing Iguchi to play more of his game down in the lineup while the Sox also upgrade to a little better 2 hole hitter in Omar (and its hard to do much better than Guchi has).

 

As far as Huff goes, I wouldn't trade for him unless they want him at 1B or OF. No way should the Sox ruin what has helped them (ie a good defense). Just like if they trade a reliever they better be acquiring as good of one or a better one because the bullpen is also a large part to why the team is where it is at this point in the season.

[Milkman delivers]

I could buy that method.  I just feel Iguchi is made to be a .280 hitter with 15-20 Hr's and good gap power.  If he moves to a production spot I think you'll see that come out and at the same time the Sox will be sliding in a better version of Iguchi (the 2 hole hitter Iguchi) emerge in the 2 spot in Omar Vizquel (who flat out can handle a bat with the best of them).

 

To me its basically allowing Iguchi to play more of his game down in the lineup while the Sox also upgrade to a little better 2 hole hitter in Omar (and its hard to do much better than Guchi has).

 

As far as Huff goes, I wouldn't trade for him unless they want him at 1B or OF.  No way should the Sox ruin what has helped them (ie a good defense).  Just like if they trade a reliever they better be acquiring as good of one or a better one because the bullpen is also a large part to why the team is where it is at this point in the season.

 

Would Vizquel be as unselfish as Iguchi has been? I know Omar is a great hitter and can do little things, but I don't know exactly how he is with going 0-1 by hitting behind the runner.