TRADE THREAD III ~July 9 - July 15

[Dick Allen]

What is wrong with everyone.  I didnt know this was Kenny Rogers love time.  The guy flat out blows down the stretch and in postseason play.  With respect to Kyle.

 

Kenny Rogers Postseason numbers

 

3 division series(4 games pitched, 2 started) with a record of 0-1, 7.7 innings pitched, and ERA of 7.04, 11 hits, 6 Earned Runs, 5 BB, 10 K

 

2 Championship series (4 games pitched, 2 starts) with a 0-2 record, 10.7 innings pitched,  7.59 ERA, 16 hits, 9 Earned Runs, 9 BB, 5 K

 

World Series (9 games pitched, 5 games started) with a 0-3 record, 20.3 innings, 32 hits, 20 earned runs, 16 BB, 15 Ks

El Duque is proven a better player in the situation.  Kenny Rogers is missing ALOT of games and is a notoriously slow second half player.  With respect to everyone, Kenny Rogers sucks at the end of the year and in the clutch.  He is NOT the solution.

 

I think Rogers is going to fall off the second half. I also don't think there's a chance in hell El Duque will make it through the second half without being DL'd again. KW is going to have to bring in reinforcements. Standing pat is not the right thing to do, and is not one of his characteristics. The goal is the world championship. Money is not an issue. Barring injuries, I think the White Sox 25 man roster is going to be looking a lot stronger on August 1st than it is right now, and its not too bad right now.

[RockRaines]

I think Rogers is going to fall off the second half. I also don't think there's a chance in hell El Duque will make it through the second half without being DL'd again. KW is going to have to bring in reinforcements. Standing pat is not the right thing to do, and is not one of his characteristics. The goal is the world championship. Money is not an issue. Barring injuries, I think the White Sox 25 man roster is going to be looking a lot stronger on August 1st than it is right now, and its not too bad right now.

We dont need El Duque to pitch every 5th day in the 2nd half. We need him for the playoffs, to start and win the decisive game. And to pitch a few innings here and there down the stretch. If we get another starter, then he got to be better than what we have in the playoffs. As of right now, you are looking at MB, Garland, Freddy and El Duque in the playoffs, I am VERY comfortable with that if we make it.

[Dick Allen]

We dont need El Duque to pitch every 5th day in the 2nd half.  We need him for the playoffs, to start and win the decisive game.  And to pitch a few innings here and there down the stretch.  If we get another starter, then he got to be better than what we have in the playoffs.  As of right now, you are looking at MB, Garland, Freddy and El Duque in the playoffs, I am VERY comfortable with that if we make it.

 

El Duque is aging quickly. His batting average against this year is almost .300. He does have a 9-3 career post season record. However, he is 1-3 since 2001. Expecting him to be the savior this postseason would not be wise IMHO. This is not the Orlando Hernandez of 1998. His shoulder is beat up. Cunning and guile can only get you so far when you can't spot your pitches.

Edited July 12, 2005 by Dick Allen

[Milkman delivers]

El Duque is aging quickly. His batting average against this year is almost .300. He does have a 9-3 career post season record. However, he is 1-3 since 2001. Expecting him to be the savior this postseason would not be wise IMHO. This is not the Orlando Hernandez of 1998. His shoulder is beat up. Cunning and guile can only get you so far when you can't spot your pitches.

 

Wow, that stat from 2001 on really sucks. Why the f*** did we get him to help us in the postseason when he hasn't been good in the postseason for 4 years? Seriously, what the f***? That just pisses me off.

[Guest JimH]

Wow, that stat from 2001 on really sucks.  Why the f*** did we get him to help us in the postseason when he hasn't been good in the postseason for 4 years?  Seriously, what the f***?  That just pisses me off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe look a little deeper than the 1-3 record? By the way, one win is more wins than the White Sox have had in the postseason in almost 12 years.

[Milkman delivers]

Maybe look a little deeper than the 1-3 record?  By the way, one win is more wins than the White Sox have had in the postseason in almost 12 years.

 

In 2001, he had a 3.18 ERA in the ALDS, 7.20 in the ALCS, and 1.42 in the WS. In 2002, he had a 2.84 ERA in the ALDS. In the 2004 ALCS, he had a 5.40 ERA.

 

That's pretty inconsistent still.

[CYGarland]

I need a better understanding of why they play baseball, is it to win the world series? How many times do we have a team like this? I mean a legit chance with real good pitching? The Twins are not the same this year, and the Tribe may only be two pitchers away next year.Time to strike. Screw the farm.

 

Remember- Borchard,myette, olivo,stumm, wing, Ruffcorn, Snopek,Rauch, Caruso,Pearson,Scott Christman, MarK Johnson,Leifer,Dallearo,Honel, Tim Hulet, Joel Skinner, Kenny Williams,JimSiwy,Tony Menendez, Russ Morman, Tom Forrester,Ken Patterson, Melido Perez,Adam Peterson,Johnny Ruffin, Ramon Garcia,Rod Bolton,Brandon Wilson,Steve Schrenk,Brian Boeringer,Jeff Abbott,Greg Norton,Luis Andujar,Mckay Christiansen,mario Valdez, Josh Paul,Tom Fordam,Brian Simmons,Lorenzo Barcelo, Jason Dellero,kevin Bierne,pat denaker,Matt Ginter,Brian West,Corwin malone, Dennis Ulacia,TIm Hummel,Felix Daiz, and on and on and and On. 

 

You see I had to hear about all these guys at one time or another being within our top prospect list. If your a blue chip prospect then keep them if not they all suck.

I agree, the time is now. We have a good nucleus for a few years, and we just need to add a couple more pieces to the puzzle. If KW doesn't make a significant move, i will be very dissapointed!

[Guest JimH]

In 2001, he had a 3.18 ERA in the ALDS, 7.20 in the ALCS, and 1.42 in the WS.  In 2002, he had a 2.84 ERA in the ALDS.  In the 2004 ALCS, he had a 5.40 ERA.

 

That's pretty inconsistent still.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's over a three year period, and not enough to say consistent vs. inconsistent.

 

All I know is the guy has guts and it wouldn't bother me to see him on the mound in a big game.

[Chisoxfn]

El Duque is aging quickly. His batting average against this year is almost .300. He does have a 9-3 career post season record. However, he is 1-3 since 2001. Expecting him to be the savior this postseason would not be wise IMHO. This is not the Orlando Hernandez of 1998. His shoulder is beat up. Cunning and guile can only get you so far when you can't spot your pitches.

Why does everyone talk about what El Duque did 5 years ago. El Duque wasn't huge in the post-season last year for the Yanks and he's been lousy this season (despite his record).

 

If a guy doesn't show anything during the regular season than why should we all of a sudden expect him to kick butt in the post season. The past is the past and I have to think people need to move on.

 

Basically Dick, I agree with everything you said and I'm so sick of hearing the El Duque is clutch in the post-season argument. It was a solid signing simply because he's better than the prior 5th starters, but at the same time it was a stupid signing because El Duque isn't a good pitcher (unless he's been hurt this hole time and by all means I hope I'm proven wrong) and I shudder at the thought of him on the team next year.

 

All that said the Sox are going to need him to step up down the stretch, unless of course they acquire another starter, in which case I fully believe you can kiss Duque goodbye.

[Dick Allen]

Maybe look a little deeper than the 1-3 record?  By the way, one win is more wins than the White Sox have had in the postseason in almost 12 years.

 

El Duque is a lot older now. The league used to hit .230 against him when he posted those numbers. Maybe he rounds into form. I wouldn't count on it. There are some people who are under the impression that he is an automatic win in the postseason. I wonder if he'll even be available to pitch.

[Guest JimH]

El Duque is a lot older now. The league used to hit .230 against him when he posted those numbers. Maybe he rounds into form. I wouldn't count on it. There are some people who are under the impression that he is an automatic win in the postseason. I wonder if he'll even be available to pitch.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nothing is ever guaranteed, you are right.

[quickman]

Nothing is ever guaranteed, you are right.

 

 

to reiterate, chemistry is bulls*** and is the job of the manager and leaders of the team, the sox should do everything to make this team better including trading away any of there prospects for the right deal. Win now not later. Am I repeditive enough for you? Get omar visquel, Schmidt and whatever else you need. This team today is not good enough. And yes your views on Italian Beef are a bit over rated lately.

[Rowand44]

to reiterate, chemistry is bulls*** and is the job of the manager and leaders of the team, the sox should do everything to make this team better including trading away any of there prospects for the right deal. Win now not later. Am I repeditive enough for you? Get omar visquel, Schmidt and whatever else you need. This team today is not good enough. And yes your views on Italian Beef are a bit over rated lately.

Just because I disagree with you, remember after the first dray series how you told me the Twins would be in first place within a week???? You were wrong

[Southside hitmen]

Mark Redman Pirates

The Pirates have basically decided they won't be able to afford Redman when he becomes a free agent after this year, so they'll try to move him before July 31. Several teams are looking for pitching help and while Redman may not be their first choice, he might be the best starter of those available.

Potential Suitors: Marlins, Braves, Red Sox, Yankees, White Sox

[Rowand44]

Mark Redman Pirates

  The Pirates have basically decided they won't be able to afford Redman when he becomes a free agent after this year, so they'll try to move him before July 31. Several teams are looking for pitching help and while Redman may not be their first choice, he might be the best starter of those available.

Potential Suitors: Marlins, Braves, Red Sox, Yankees, White Sox

No thanks on Redman.

[Southside hitmen]

Joe Randa, Reds

Of all the Reds players likely to attract attention, Randa might be the most tradeable. Not only does he have affordable $2.15 million one-year deal, but the veteran has been perhaps the most consistent all-around contributor for the Reds this season.

Potential Suitors: Indians, White Sox

Edited July 13, 2005 by Southside hitmen

[Southside hitmen]

Eddie Guardado, Mariners

The team's bullpen ace is throwing well, and racking up saves on a mediocre team that isn't thinking about this season any more. with so many teams needing closing teams, Seattle could get a nice return for this veteran.

Potential Suitors: Red Sox, Braves, White Sox

[GreatScott82]

Joe Randa, Reds

  Of all the Reds players likely to attract attention, Randa might be the most tradeable. Not only does he have affordable $2.15 million one-year deal, but the veteran has been perhaps the most consistent all-around contributor for the Reds this season.

Potential Suitors: Indians, White Sox

No thanks to Randa. Crede is a human vacuum at 3B.

Yes to Burnett or Schmidt.

Maybe to Vizquel- (as long as he doesnt cost too much) They can have Uribe or Harris and thats it.

[DBAHO]

Guardado was throwing about 85 on Sunday when Jason and I saw him. Never has been a stuff guy though.

[CWSGuy406]

As far as the El Duque signing this past offseason, I think everyone here knows I was a fan of it. Looking in hindsight, it's good that Kenny had his sights set on two of the better pitchers (as far as bang for your buck) in El Duque and Matt Clement. I wish he would have made a better attempt at grabbing Wade Miller as a swingman type, but there's not too much to complain about this offseason.

 

Anyways -- Hernandez still can pitch (or pitch well, I should say). Just, he's not gonna be an innings eater, and I hope that Ozzie realizes that. If he's at 95 pitches, and it's a tie game -- at this point, it really doesn't matter if he's not in line for the win -- we gotta protect that arm.

 

136 ERA+ in 2004 (84 2/3 IP), 120 ERA+ in 2002 (146 IP). I don't think he's that good anymore -- but I still think he can be a real big help down the stretch. And if we don't acquire a starter, I want El Duque out there for Game 4 -- unless it's an elimination game. Over Contreras, of course.

[knightni]

Joe Randa, Reds

  Of all the Reds players likely to attract attention, Randa might be the most tradeable. Not only does he have affordable $2.15 million one-year deal, but the veteran has been perhaps the most consistent all-around contributor for the Reds this season.

Potential Suitors: Indians, White Sox

The Indians don't need a 3b.

[Chisoxfn]

Sounds like you agree with my post above (#275).  But what do you do about 3B?  Happy with Ozuna?  Willing to rely on Crede's back?  Where's Herb Perry when you need him?

One thing I differ on. I don't trade Juan Uribe. No if's ands or buts. He's way too valuable to this club. I'd give up prospects or whatever else, keep Juan and let him play 3rd, ss, and 2nd to keep the rest of the guys fresh and if anyone goes down for an extended period in the infield you have Juan to plug in.

 

Than in 2006, the Sox can move Omar somewhere else to re-open a starting spot for Juan if they'd like.

[GoodAsGould]

The Indians don't need a 3b.

 

 

go look at aaron boone's stats.

[knightni]

go look at aaron boone's stats.

They can move Casey Blake back to 3b.

[beck72]

Burnett Trade talks heat up

July 13

Miami Herald (registration required): "The Chicago White Sox are believed to be the team most aggressively pursuing the pitcher, who will become a free agent after the season. But the Baltimore Orioles have also renewed attempts to woo the Marlins, offering a package centered on reliever Jorge Julio, while the Toronto Blue Jays entered the sweepstakes this week."

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the article doesn't say anything more about who the Sox would trade. though another FLA article mentioned a Marlins scout attended the A's series