TRADE THREAD III ~July 9 - July 15

[beck72]

Beck,

 

You can't be serious? You don't try to pull that play on Derek Lee earlier this year if you don't have passion.  Did you see that pick off play the other day against TB? Uribe cares. He has passion.

He didn't gain as much weight that people tend to believe. I seen him at soxfest, he looked a little heavier, but thats what camp is for, to get back in shape.  Frank has never come in overweight? Uribe is the only player to come in overweght?

Uribe is hitting the following against these possible playoff pitchers :

Johan santana  .267

Randy Johnson .273

kenny Rogers  .300

Mike Mussina .429

Curt Schilling .238

Matt Clement  .333

 

These pitchers pretty much hold the opposition to under a .250 BA. He's Not exactly an easy out.  Maybe it's just me.

Johan santana  .235

Randy Johnson .263

Curt Schilling .111

Kenny Rogers .271

Mike Mussina .260

no at bats vs clement

 

What about A.J.?  who is batting .247  What about  Gooch who Batted .244 In June  and  .250 In july so far.  Uribe is hitting .333 in July so far. Like I said he is up and down.  Dye is just as streaky as uribe. No one is calling for Dye's head because he is hot right now. Dye hit .175 in april and can very well do it again in October.  Last year Uribe hit .289 in August and .353 in September.  Uribe will be a  strong finisher. Vizquel is hitting .219 the last 3 years in september. Guess what? he is another year older.

 

 

Uribe doesn't bunt? move runners over? hit sacrafice flys?

 

Why uribe out and not crede? I bet most people would rather have uribe at bat in a game tying/winning situation  over crede.

I dont know how much passion and energy he can possibly have for a team he didn't even want to sign with a 1/2 year ago.

 

The sox tried very hard to upgrade at SS in the offseason, even after Uribe's break out yr. I don't think he's wowed them this yr so far. IMO, Vizquel could help. With Ozzie saying they could use another bat, I don't see where else they could upgrade.

[SoxFan1]

Beck,

 

You can't be serious? You don't try to pull that play on Derek Lee earlier this year if you don't have passion.  Did you see that pick off play the other day against TB? Uribe cares. He has passion.

He didn't gain as much weight that people tend to believe. I seen him at soxfest, he looked a little heavier, but thats what camp is for, to get back in shape.  Frank has never come in overweight? Uribe is the only player to come in overweght?

Uribe is hitting the following against these possible playoff pitchers :

Johan santana  .267

Randy Johnson .273

kenny Rogers  .300

Mike Mussina .429

Curt Schilling .238

Matt Clement  .333

 

These pitchers pretty much hold the opposition to under a .250 BA. He's Not exactly an easy out.  Maybe it's just me.

Johan santana  .235

Randy Johnson .263

Curt Schilling .111

Kenny Rogers .271

Mike Mussina .260

no at bats vs clement

 

What about A.J.?  who is batting .247  What about  Gooch who Batted .244 In June  and  .250 In july so far.  Uribe is hitting .333 in July so far. Like I said he is up and down.  Dye is just as streaky as uribe. No one is calling for Dye's head because he is hot right now. Dye hit .175 in april and can very well do it again in October.  Last year Uribe hit .289 in August and .353 in September.  Uribe will be a  strong finisher. Vizquel is hitting .219 the last 3 years in september. Guess what? he is another year older.

 

 

Uribe doesn't bunt? move runners over? hit sacrafice flys?

 

Why uribe out and not crede? I bet most people would rather have uribe at bat in a game tying/winning situation  over crede.

I dont know how much passion and energy he can possibly have for a team he didn't even want to sign with a 1/2 year ago.

Wow. He PWNED you with logic and stats.

[rangercal]

The sox tried very hard to upgrade at SS in the offseason, even after Uribe's break out yr. I don't think he's wowed them this yr so far. IMO, Vizquel could help. With Ozzie saying they could use another bat, I don't see where else they could upgrade.

They could upgrade at 3rd. Vizquel was not going to bump uribe out of the lineup. Uribe played 2nd last year, remember? Vizquel was replacing Valentin , not Uribe. If we signed Vizquel we would not have signed Iguchi. Uribe was not the reason we were pursuing Vizquel last year.

[beck72]

Wow. He PWNED you with logic and stats. 

I've got stats also that show Vizquel hits better vs likely playoff opponents, like Minn, Boston and LAA.

 

Logic, to each his own. But few can argue that Uribe would likely be a better hitter for the sox than Vizquel.

[SoxFan1]

I've got stats also that show Vizquel hits better vs likely playoff opponents, like Minn, Boston and LAA.

Would ya mind showing the to us maybe????

[beck72]

They could upgrade at 3rd. Vizquel was not going to bump uribe out of the lineup.  Uribe played 2nd last year, remember? Vizquel was replacing Valentin , not Uribe.  If we signed Vizquel  we would not have signed Iguchi. Uribe was not the reason we were pursuing Vizquel last year.

Except Ozzie has given Crede his stamp of approval. he hasn't done that w/ Uribe.

 

The sox seem to have had their doubts about Uribe heading into this season, for SS or 2b. Iguchi has proven himself this yr. Uribe still has some questions about him.

 

The larger point is, Vizquel is the type of hitter that is needed on this team. Another guy in the Pods and Iguchi mold. We'll see if that type of hitter is added in the days and weeks ahead.

[Chisoxfn]

I'll be the first to pose a question or two. So here goes:

1] how would you feel about a trade involving basically, Omar Vizquel and Juan Uribe?

2] Would it take say a bullpen arm like Bajenaru along with Uribe to make it worth SF's while?

3] Would SF even want Uribe [though getting a 25 yr old who can start at both SS and 2B is hard to find]?

Good lord...if the Sox traded the two straight up I'd be sick, let alone give something else. Juan Uribe >>>> Omar Vizquel (when were talking about trade value...Giants would make that deal in a heartbeat and I don't think the Sox would). However, the Sox could potentially give up a guy like Uribe if they were also getting Schmidt. Personally I'd go more for picking up Zach Day and packaging him with a couple minor leaguers for AJ.

[That funky motion]

Where do people get this s*** from. Crede will be here next year, he's arbitration eligible. Either the Sox will give him a new 1 year/multi year contract or he'll go to arb. and get nothing from the arbitrator. Crede will be here next year.

People get this s*** from Crede having a s***ty year after year. His agent is Boras! This team has show it will let someone go,when they can replace him with someone cheaper. What has Crede done in your eyes to receive anything from the Sox? Uribe will look great at 3rd!

[DukeNukeEm]

I dont think we would trade just for Vizquel,  Only way we get him in my opinion is if we also get Schmidt which than would involve much more.  But since Schmidt hasnt impressed scouts at all and the giants asking price... I dont see a trade happening with the Giants at all.

 

Id like KW to sell the farm for a real ace though.  Find out what it would take to get guys like Halladay, Oswalt, possibly Rogers, Zito, Burnett, Sheets, Oliver Perez, Vazquez, and Odalis Perez.

 

Some of those pitchers would be really hard to get but if any of those teams would be willing to deal do whatevr it takes to get them.  Halladay and Sheets are very unlikely with Sheets just signing a contract but hey stranger things have happened.  And I know for a fact Oliver Perez isnt untouchable due to the fact I think Ken Rosenthal or whatevr said the only 2 untouchables for the pirates are Jason Bay and Jack Wilson... might of been another but wasnt Perez.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I'd give my right arm for Oliver Perez. His craziness would fit right in here.

[beck72]

Would ya mind showing the to us maybe????

I've put it elsewhere, but here goes.

career numbers:

Vizquel vs Bos: .237/.270/.316

LAA: .343/.416/.455

Minn: .347/.387/.459

Uribe vs Bos: .205/..250/.341

LAA: .191/.186/.244

Minn: .257/.296/.419

[Chisoxfn]

I agree with the idea that Uribe fits better than Crede. Crede cant play Ozzie ball,he's slow and is not going to be here next year anyway!

I'm starting to see Crede make the adjustments and I think he's going to be big for the club down the stretch. Unless the Sox get Chavez and Zito in some blockbuster deal, I don't see anyone other than Crede starting at 3rd for the Sox.

[SoxFan1]

I've put it elsewhere, but here goes.

career numbers:

Vizquel vs Bos: .237/.270/.316

            LAA: .343/.416/.455

            Minn: .347/.387/.459

Uribe vs Bos: .205/..250/.341

          LAA: .191/.186/.244

          Minn: .257/.296/.419

It doesn't make sence. Rangercal offers stats showing he pwns some pitcher but does that mean he blows vs the rest???

[beck72]

Would ya mind showing the to us maybe????

 

The biggest numbers that jump out at me this year is Omar's splits vs RHP, a big weak area for the sox: .329/.390/.410

[rangercal]

Good lord...if the Sox traded the two straight up I'd be sick, let alone give something else.  Juan Uribe >>>> Omar Vizquel (when were talking about trade value...Giants would make that deal in a heartbeat and I don't think the Sox would).  However, the Sox could potentially give up a guy like Uribe if they were also getting Schmidt.  Personally I'd go more for picking up Zach Day and packaging him with a couple minor leaguers for AJ.

If uribe is used in a package to aquire an ace, then I am all for it. Straight up for vizquel? Why don't we just trade Rowand straight up for griffey and Garland Straight up for Randy Johnson while we're at it. Im sure we could trade a young guy on our 25 man for mesa too.

[beck72]

It doesn't make sence. Rangercal offers stats showing he pwns some pitcher but does that mean he blows vs the rest???

Selective stats to back up someone's opinion?! No way would someone do that?

[SoxFan1]

The biggest numbers that jump out at me this year is Omar's splits vs RHP, a big weak area for the sox: .329/.390/.410

Aaron is s***ty vs righties right? PK is good against them? Every player has his preferences. I think all this team really could use is an inning eater at the end of the rotation.

[beck72]

If uribe is used in a package to aquire an ace, then I am all for it.  Straight up for vizquel? Why don't we just trade Rowand straight up for griffey and Garland Straight up for Randy Johnson while we're at it.  Im sure we could trade a young guy on our 25 man for mesa too.

 

The larger point is, could a deal involving those two key figures be made? It could include a LHP like Scott Erye, other players, who knows.

[Chisoxfn]

It doesn't make sence. Rangercal offers stats showing he pwns some pitcher but does that mean he blows vs the rest???

Thats precisely it. A team has way more than just one pitcher. Plus just think, Juan's stats are often times based heavily on last years performances. Its not like he played in the AL for years and years like Omar did.

[rangercal]

I've put it elsewhere, but here goes.

career numbers:

Vizquel vs Bos: .237/.270/.316

            LAA: .343/.416/.455

            Minn: .347/.387/.459

Uribe vs Bos: .205/..250/.341

          LAA: .191/.186/.244

          Minn: .257/.296/.419

did I mention vizquel is hitting .219 in september the last 3 years? Should we get Robbie Alomor again while we're at it? I bet he has good #'s vs Bos Min and LAA. That doesn't mean you trade a 25 y/o shortstop for him!

[Chisoxfn]

The larger point is, could a deal involving those two key figures be made? It could include a LHP like Scott Erye, other players, who knows.

I mentioned Scott Eyre once. He has good numbers, Sox are at least semi familiar with him, and I'm sure the Giants would be willing to deal him for 2 mid-level guys.

[rangercal]

Selective stats to back up someone's opinion?! No way would someone do that?

Like Omars Career #'s 5 years past his prime are not selective?

[Steve9347]

I'd give my right arm for Oliver Perez.  His craziness would fit right in here.

 

Oliver Perez is s***. His ERA is over 6, and he's had one decent year. He's having horrible control issues, is on the DL right now because he broke his foot, and his fastball is not travelling at all. f*** that.

[rangercal]

Oliver Perez is s***.  His ERA is over 6, and he's had one decent year.  He's having horrible control issues, is on the DL right now because he broke his foot, and his fastball is not travelling at all.  f*** that.

you serious???

I guess you gave up on .500 pitcher Dontrelle Willis last year?

[DukeNukeEm]

Oliver Perez is s***.  His ERA is over 6, and he's had one decent year.  He's having horrible control issues, is on the DL right now because he broke his foot, and his fastball is not travelling at all.  f*** that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He's 2-f***ing-3.

 

This kid is so special if you ask me. Maybe he needs to get out of Pittsburgh and come to Chicago. But his competitive nature isnt going to put up with his play for long.

 

If you say Oliver Perez is s***, you should watch basketball, or something else.

Edited July 9, 2005 by DukeNukeEm

[Steve9347]

He's 2-f***ing-3.

 

This kid is so special if you ask me.  Maybe he needs to get out of Pittsburgh and come to Chicago.  But his competitive nature isnt going to put up with his play for long.

 

If you say Oliver Perez is s***, you should watch basketball, or something else.

 

Wow, I guess we're building for the future now. If you want a hothead who can't find the strike zone or stay healthy this year, you're crazy. Yes, that deal might look good next year, but unfortunately, I would like the White Sox to try to win the World Series this year. I don't want to build for the future.

 

PS you'll be watching basketball a lot sooner if we depend on Oliver Perez to be a contributor on this team; like say after the first round of the playoffs.

Edited July 9, 2005 by Steve9347