TRADE THREAD III ~July 9 - July 15

[Guest JimH]

He is a serviceable 3B, but in no means a defensive stud.  He can play both corners of the IF and the OF.  His defense is def not his strong suit.  But his hitting is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He'll hit better than he has so far this year, no doubt. But he's marginal - at best - at 3B. That is not the guy you want at 3B, there's a reason why the D-Rays of all people moved him from third. He'll play there in an emergency for them, that's it. Which is very telling to me. OF and 1B, sure, he'll do fine there.

[RockRaines]

He'll hit better than he has so far this year, no doubt.  But he's marginal - at best - at 3B.  That is not the guy you want at 3B, there's a reason why the D-Rays of all people moved him from third.  He'll play there in an emergency for them, that's it.  Which is very telling to me.  OF and 1B, sure, he'll do fine there.

Exactly, he is in no means a replacement 3B. But a replacement 1B? I think so, I for one, would like to see us go a different direction than Konerko. He is a fan fav, but his numbers are hardly that of a good clean up hitter.

[VAfan]

Okay, if Aubrey Huff is back on the radar screen, should the Sox send Ross Gload to TB as the biggest part of the deal? Huff comes in and backs up Konerko and Crede for the rest of the season and gives us a tryout to see if we want to sign him instead of meeting Konerko's unreasonable demands in the offseason.

 

Huff's not good enough defensively to hold down 3B full-time, but he's a better choice than Ozuna this year.

[RockRaines]

Okay, if Aubrey Huff is back on the radar screen, should the Sox send Ross Gload to TB as the biggest part of the deal?  Huff comes in and backs up Konerko and Crede for the rest of the season and gives us a tryout to see if we want to sign him instead of meeting Konerko's unreasonable demands in the offseason.

 

Huff's not good enough defensively to hold down 3B full-time, but he's a better choice than Ozuna this year.

For some reason though, I think they are grooming Dye as the 1B of the future

[GoodAsGould]

Okay, if Aubrey Huff is back on the radar screen, should the Sox send Ross Gload to TB as the biggest part of the deal?  Huff comes in and backs up Konerko and Crede for the rest of the season and gives us a tryout to see if we want to sign him instead of meeting Konerko's unreasonable demands in the offseason.

 

Huff's not good enough defensively to hold down 3B full-time, but he's a better choice than Ozuna this year.

 

 

Lol main piece Ross Gload? They will demand top prospects for Huff and probably since we dont have a Scott Kazmir prospect it would take multiple top prospects.

[Guest JimH]

Okay, if Aubrey Huff is back on the radar screen, should the Sox send Ross Gload to TB as the biggest part of the deal?  Huff comes in and backs up Konerko and Crede for the rest of the season and gives us a tryout to see if we want to sign him instead of meeting Konerko's unreasonable demands in the offseason.

 

Huff's not good enough defensively to hold down 3B full-time, but he's a better choice than Ozuna this year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This board needs to stop going off so halfcocked on all these trade scenarios, there are absolutely no reports whatsoever that I or anyone else here seems to have seen re: Aubrey Huff and the White Sox.

 

Why do you say he is back on the radar screen?

 

Ross Gload as a centerpiece? C'mon. Your credibility just took a whopper hit with that one, this is not the whitesox.com board.

 

Not to mention Chuck Lamaar says both Baez and Huff fit into their 2006 plans. He is notorious for demanding a kings ransom for his players. Ross Gload? Normally I ignore posts like this but this one is way out there ...

[RockRaines]

This board needs to stop going off so halfcocked on all these trade scenarios, there are absolutely no reports whatsoever that I or anyone else here seems to have seen re: Aubrey Huff and the White Sox.

 

Why do you say he is back on the radar screen?

 

Ross Gload as a centerpiece?  C'mon.  Your credibility just took a whopper hit with that one, this is not the whitesox.com board.

 

Not to mention Chuck Lamaar says both Baez and Huff fit into their 2006 plans.  He is notorious for demanding a kings ransom for his players.  Ross Gload?  Normally I ignore posts like this but this one is way out there ...

Whoa whoa whoa Jim, I thought Quick jumped in to use your computer all of a sudden. The reason that I brought up Huff in the first place, was that there was an article on ESPN that suggested TB is looking to bring up Delmon Young soon, and its weel known that there may be no room for Huff in their plans.

 

Gload would not be a centerpiece, but our prospects would be. OF'ers would not be the major draw, so it would have to be several arms. I would still do it though.

[JUGGERNAUT]

I'm going to make two posts because there are two discussions going on & they both have bearing on trade discussions. The first is RF vs ZR.

 

Range Factor is nothing more than a calculation of an individual player's value. As someone pointed out that can be easily influenced by not only the home stadium, but the division, & league of the player.

 

It has very little comparative value.

 

Zone Rating is more along the lines of Sag's RPG & NPERA. It's based on a Markov Chain analysis where all players data is considered over time. The zone is not determined arbitrarily as some suggest. It's based on the best players to ever field a given position. The combination of those players strengths (N,S,E,W) defines the maximum zone for each position.

 

ZR is of course influenced by factors like RF (home, division, league) but to a much smaller degree. It's more influenced by the game taken as a whole over time.

 

I don't see any value to RF because the individual data means more. Nor do I see value in just using ZR. You really should look at the top 6 categories: IP, TC, F%, ZR, DP, & A.

 

If you just want a short story then:

middle IF: TC, DP, ZR & OF: TC, ZR.

 

Why? If you have a high error rate it's going to hurt your ZR. If you have

a high assist rate it will help your ZR. That drops off F%, & A. Likewise if you're playing more often you will help your TC's. Your ability to play more is dependant on both your glove & your bat. It makes a difference to the total defensive play of a team.

 

This is where I disagree with Ozzie when it comes to awarding gold gloves.

What you do with the bat counts. If you are a great defensive player but a poor hitter you won't be able to play as often & that will hurt the team defensively when you don't. Chavez deserves the gold gloves because he's both a great bat & great glove. You can depend on him to be there day in & day out.

 

Crede on the other hand as proven to be a great glove but a weak bat. During slumps you are likely to sit him & that hurts your defense. You can't depend on him to be there day in & day out. If he wants to win a GG he needs to hit consistently enough to warrant the playing time to boost his TC's.

[Steve9347]

in case anyone is interested, I just found a really good website that posts all trade rumors that they find, and is more extensive than the ESPN Insider that charges.

 

You can click a link for a certain team's rumors, or just go with the newest. It's pretty neat. My apologies beforehand if anyone has posted this information within the last five years, because I know people here tend to jump all over someone for such a mistake.

 

Pro Sports Daily

[JUGGERNAUT]

It's mid-season so let's look at our strength's a weaknesses & who's available: Omar, Griffey Jr

 

Omar $12.5M/3 yr deal w SFG vs Uribe $9.5M/3 yr deal w CWS.

 

Omar is an avg hitter vs LHers & a great hitter vs RHers.

Uribe is a great hitter vs LHers & a poor hitter vs RHers.

 

Both are solid defensively. Even at 38 Omar is on par with Uribe.

 

Griffey Jr is a great hitter vs LHers & a great hitter vs RHers.

Rowand is a great hitter vs LHers & an average hitter vs RHers.

 

You can look up the stats yourself.

 

The greatest weakness on the team is the ability to hit & score runs off of RHers. That supercedes are apparent weakness in the bullpen.

 

If we were to get KGJ we don't have to trade Rowand. We can keep him as insurance against KGJ's health & as a super-sub OF. This trade makes Perez expendable.

 

Likewise if we get Omar we don't have to trade Uribe. We can keep him an insurance against Omar's age & as a super-sub IF. This trade makes Ozuna & Harris expendable.

 

The net cost for $2005 is about $7M in additional payroll. Well within reason of a WS budget run.

 

The new Sox lineup:

Pods, Iguchi, Omar, Griffey, Thomas, Koney, Dye, AJ, Crede

The new Sox bench:

Widger, Everett, Gload, Rowand, Uribe

 

That stacks up with anybody in the game including STL & the NYY.

 

That put's us in the low 80's range. There is still a few million left for long relief help in the pen. A guy that is near starter quality that can give you

3 strong innings of relief on any given night. Of course it be expected to rest the next night.

 

There are guys like around the league. You call them 3-4 inning starters.

Prior to this year, Garland might have been considered one. Guys who

usually break down in the 4th & 5th after 3 solid innings of work. That's what this team really needs the most pitching wise.

 

Consider Sun's game. The Sox are winning 5-4 going into the 7th.

The short starter type guy can get you through that inning & into the 9th for your closer.

 

To find these guys just look at starters who have great numbers for their 1st 3 innings or first 45 pitches. They usually don't cost much to trade for.

I'll scour the teams to create a list.

 

The rotation:

Buerhle, Garcia, Garland, Contra, El Duque

The bullpen:

solid short starter, Cotts, Politte, Hermanson, Marte/Jenks, Shingo/Vizc

 

It's a lot better than it has been this past month.

[VAfan]

This board needs to stop going off so halfcocked on all these trade scenarios, there are absolutely no reports whatsoever that I or anyone else here seems to have seen re: Aubrey Huff and the White Sox.

 

Why do you say he is back on the radar screen?

 

Ross Gload as a centerpiece?  C'mon.  Your credibility just took a whopper hit with that one, this is not the whitesox.com board.

 

Not to mention Chuck Lamaar says both Baez and Huff fit into their 2006 plans.  He is notorious for demanding a kings ransom for his players.  Ross Gload?  Normally I ignore posts like this but this one is way out there ...

 

Okay, I'll admit I haven't scouted TB or what their trade demands have been in the past. But isn't Huff gone for nothing if they don't trade him in the next 2-3 weeks? They don't seem to be in a position to demand much. And Gload is a lefty 1B-OF guy like Huff who comes very cheap. I'm sure they would want prospects, but I can't imagine them getting any A-list guys.

 

The reason Huff hasn't been on our radar screen is in part because I think KW is satisfied with Crede's defense and hasn't been looking for a backup 3B that much (despite all the earlier Randa rumblings). But with Crede showing back tightness (which might flare up again at any time) and Ozuna showing he's not ready to take over 3B on a regular basis, I would think a guy like Huff would suddenly make a lot more sense -- but not in addition to Gload. Thus, if we made a move for Huff (whatever it might take), I can't see us keeping Gload too. At least not on the major league club this year. Does that clarify?

[RockRaines]

It's mid-season so let's look at our strength's a weaknesses & who's available: Omar, Griffey Jr

 

Omar $12.5M/3 yr deal w SFG vs Uribe $9.5M/3 yr deal w CWS.

 

Omar is an avg hitter vs LHers & a great hitter vs RHers.

Uribe is a great hitter vs LHers & a poor hitter vs RHers.

 

Both are solid defensively.  Even at 38 Omar is on par with Uribe.

 

Griffey Jr is a great hitter vs LHers &  a great hitter vs RHers.

Rowand is a great hitter vs LHers & an average hitter vs RHers.

 

You can look up the stats yourself. 

 

The greatest weakness on the team is the ability to hit & score runs off of RHers.  That supercedes are apparent weakness in the bullpen.

 

If we were to get KGJ we don't have to trade Rowand.  We can keep him as insurance against KGJ's health & as a super-sub OF.  This trade makes Perez expendable. 

 

Likewise if we get Omar we don't have to trade Uribe.  We can keep him an insurance against Omar's age & as a super-sub IF.  This trade makes Ozuna & Harris expendable.

 

The net cost for $2005 is about $7M in additional payroll. Well within reason of a WS budget run.

 

The new Sox lineup:

Pods, Iguchi, Omar, Griffey, Thomas, Koney, Dye, AJ, Crede

The new Sox bench:

Widger, Everett, Gload, Rowand, Uribe

 

That stacks up with anybody in the game including STL & the NYY.

 

 

 

 

 

EH, count me out on both Omar and Broken body Griffey. We wouldnt even pay that much for Omar in the offseason, I dont see us doing it now, and Jr is a defensive downgrade in the OF. They wont replace A-row, he is a well liked player and GREAT defensive OF'er.

[VAfan]

It's mid-season so let's look at our strength's a weaknesses & who's available: Omar, Griffey Jr

 

Omar $12.5M/3 yr deal w SFG vs Uribe $9.5M/3 yr deal w CWS.

 

Omar is an avg hitter vs LHers & a great hitter vs RHers.

Uribe is a great hitter vs LHers & a poor hitter vs RHers.

 

Both are solid defensively.  Even at 38 Omar is on par with Uribe.

 

Griffey Jr is a great hitter vs LHers &  a great hitter vs RHers.

Rowand is a great hitter vs LHers & an average hitter vs RHers.

 

You can look up the stats yourself. 

 

The greatest weakness on the team is the ability to hit & score runs off of RHers.  That supercedes are apparent weakness in the bullpen.

 

If we were to get KGJ we don't have to trade Rowand.  We can keep him as insurance against KGJ's health & as a super-sub OF.  This trade makes Perez expendable. 

 

Likewise if we get Omar we don't have to trade Uribe.  We can keep him an insurance against Omar's age & as a super-sub IF.  This trade makes Ozuna & Harris expendable.

 

The net cost for $2005 is about $7M in additional payroll. Well within reason of a WS budget run.

 

The new Sox lineup:

Pods, Iguchi, Omar, Griffey, Thomas, Koney, Dye, AJ, Crede

The new Sox bench:

Widger, Everett, Gload, Rowand, Uribe

 

That stacks up with anybody in the game including STL & the NYY.

 

That put's us in the low 80's range.  There is still a few million left for long relief help in the pen.  A guy that is near starter quality that can give you

3 strong innings of relief on any given night.  Of course it be expected to rest the next night. 

 

There are guys like around the league.  You call them 3-4 inning starters.

Prior to this year, Garland might have been considered one.  Guys who

usually break down in the 4th & 5th after 3 solid innings of work.  That's what this team really needs the most pitching wise.

 

Consider Sun's game.  The Sox are winning 5-4 going into the 7th.

The short starter type guy can get you through that inning & into the 9th for your closer.

 

To find these guys just look at starters who have great numbers for their 1st 3 innings or first 45 pitches.  They usually don't cost much to trade for.

I'll scour the teams to create a list.

 

The rotation:

Buerhle, Garcia, Garland, Contra, El Duque

The bullpen:

solid short starter, Cotts, Politte, Hermanson, Marte/Jenks, Shingo/Vizc

 

It's a lot better than it has been this past month.

 

 

I'm with you on acquiring Vizquel, but I don't see the Sox carrying Uribe's $9 million for a utility infielder, and I don't see the Giants accepting less than Uribe in exchange. We could do better than Ozuna/Harris as utility guys, but I don't see us spending millions there.

 

As for Griffey, the idea is completely untenable. Rowand is one of the effort guys who is a centerpiece of our current success. He hits very well with men in scoring position, and he plays a great defensive center field. And his numbers last year were better than Griffey's have been in a very long time. Give Rowand a chance. He's a better second half player and may come on like Dye has.

 

If you want another lefty bat at least some of the time, I think the Sox should consider going after Aubrey Huff. He can spell Konerko, but he can also spell Crede. And he's another guy who is finally picking it up after a lousy beginning.

[3E8]

The new Sox lineup:

Pods, Iguchi, Omar, Griffey, Thomas, Koney, Dye, AJ, Crede

The new Sox bench:

Widger, Everett, Gload, Rowand, Uribe

 

The rotation:

Buerhle, Garcia, Garland, Contra, El Duque

 

The bullpen:

solid short starter, Cotts, Politte, Hermanson, Marte/Jenks, Shingo/Vizc

For what we would be getting I really don't like the amount of minor league talent it would realistically take. You've added Omar Vizquel, Ken Griffey Jr., and a solid short starter to our team while only subtracting Harris, Ozuna, and Perez.

 

Who are you advocating we give up from the farm? Because with only those three players made expendable, it's going to take much more to obtain what you want via trade.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 11, 2005 -> 07:40 PM)

EH, count me out on both Omar and Broken body Griffey.  We wouldnt even pay that much for Omar in the offseason, I dont see us doing it now, and Jr is a defensive downgrade in the OF.  They wont replace A-row, he is a well liked player and  GREAT defensive OF'er.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Griffey is not broken down anymore and he has stayed healthy all year. He would be a great acquisition as we need lefthanded power. Rowand is good defensively, not great. he still gets a lot of bad jumps. I am by no means saying he is a bad CFer, just saying he is not great. He may be better suited for the corner OF positions. Griffey is much better than him defensively, no doubt about it. Rowand is well-liked and no one is saying to get rid of him, someone just speculated that the position could be upgraded and I agree it would be a major upgrade to get someone like Griffey so we are better against right handed pitching. You can even have him as an insurance DH in case Big Hurt can't get through the whole season. I would be all for that move.

 

Omar is also a big upgrade. He is equal to Uribe in the field, but will provide us with one more on base kind of guy at the bottom of the order. I would much rather have Omar's bat than Uribe's and he is equal to him defensively, so why not make that move? We may not have to pay all of his salary if we trade for him, so I don't think that is really an issue.

 

I think we can also get Jason Schmidt in the same Omar deal. This would help move the Count to the long reliever slot.

 

Jay Witasik from Colorado is another reliever I would like to have that should not cost very much.

 

I would be absolutely thrilled with:

 

LF Pods

2B Iguchi

CF Griffey Jr - replaces Timo

DH Hurt

1B Konerko

C AJ

RF Dye

3B Crede

SS Vizquel - replaces Pablo

 

BENCH

Rowand

Uribe

Crazy Carl

Gload - replaces Willie

Widger

 

Pitchers

Buehrle

Garcia

Schmidt - replaces el duque

Garland

Contreras

Cotts

Witasik - replaces viz

Politte

Hermanson

Marte -relpaces shingo

 

but it will never happen, and I am not even sure we should make so many moves with a team that has this much chemistry.

[Steve9347]

WHY BOTHER TALKING ABOUT IT. THE CHICAGO WHITE SOX WILL NEVER ACQUIRE KEN GRIFFEY, JR! IT'S JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! KW IS SATISFIED WITH AROW IN CENTERFIELD, AND SO IS EVERYONE ELSE. THERE WILL NEVER BE A JUNIOR GRIFFEY ON THE WHITE SOX!

[SoxFan1]

WHY BOTHER TALKING ABOUT IT.  THE CHICAGO WHITE SOX WILL NEVER ACQUIRE KEN GRIFFEY, JR!  IT'S JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!  KW IS SATISFIED WITH AROW IN CENTERFIELD, AND SO IS EVERYONE ELSE.  THERE WILL NEVER BE A JUNIOR GRIFFEY ON THE WHITE SOX!

Prozac! Buddy....relax.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Jul 11, 2005 -> 08:18 PM)

WHY BOTHER TALKING ABOUT IT.  THE CHICAGO WHITE SOX WILL NEVER ACQUIRE KEN GRIFFEY, JR!  IT'S JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!  KW IS SATISFIED WITH AROW IN CENTERFIELD, AND SO IS EVERYONE ELSE.  THERE WILL NEVER BE A JUNIOR GRIFFEY ON THE WHITE SOX!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

WOWIE WOW!

[KevHead0881]

WHY BOTHER TALKING ABOUT IT.  THE CHICAGO WHITE SOX WILL NEVER ACQUIRE KEN GRIFFEY, JR!  IT'S JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!  KW IS SATISFIED WITH AROW IN CENTERFIELD, AND SO IS EVERYONE ELSE.  THERE WILL NEVER BE A JUNIOR GRIFFEY ON THE WHITE SOX!

 

Lets use our silent voices.

[SoxFan1]

Lets use our silent voices. 

No no no no.....it's "inside" voices! :headshake

 

[KevHead0881]

No no no no.....it's "inside" voices!  :headshake

 

 

That might be too much to ask.

[SoxFan1]

That might be too much to ask.

[RockRaines]

Griffey is not broken down anymore and he has stayed healthy all year. He would be a great acquisition as we need lefthanded power. Rowand is good defensively, not great. he still gets a lot of bad jumps. I am by no means saying he is a bad CFer, just saying he is not great. He may be better suited for the corner OF positions. Griffey is much better than him defensively, no doubt about it.

 

 

I almost choked on a snickers when I read this. You have got to be kidding me

[JUGGERNAUT]

If you don't believe KGJ is available .. read & learn:

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/mlb/reds/rumors.html

 

What exactly am I suppose to hope for with Rowand?

His whole career he has proven to be a mid 800s OPS hitter vs LHers & a mid 700's OPS hitter vs RHers. In 2004 with a monster 2nd half he exceeded that. Rising to high 800's vs RHers & mid 900's vs LHers. But he started that surge in June. This June he went into a slump & the Knights are not an option to get him back on track.

 

With Griffey you are getting a player with a career avg of high 800's vs LHers & high 900's vs RHers. Do you know what that means? If Griffey just approaches his career numbers he still produces more than Rowand's career best. At US Cell he should flourish. Put another way Griffey's career numbers vs RHers are better than Thomas' career numbers.

 

I don't even think Aaron would blink twice at the possibility of the White Sox getting Griffey. He's like the best cure imaginable for solving our weakness against RHers.

 

I think you are dead wrong in the CWS not keeping Uribe if they trade for Omar. Cutting him lose now saves you $7.3M over the next 2 yrs but only about $1M this year. That $1M is more than reasonable to keep him around as a super-sub IF. The same can be said of Rowand.

 

Here's the formula your adopting to win the World Series:

Trade for all-star caliber talent to replace good starters.

Move the good starters to the bench.

Trade the bench with ml prospects.

 

That strategy keeps your chemistry intact while you upgrade your lineup.

As for the ml prospects say goodbye to Gonzalez & at least Sweeney. Both of them are likely to be future all-stars. But that won't help you win a WS in 2005.

Edited July 11, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[Steve9347]

If you don't believe KGJ is available .. read & learn:

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/mlb/reds/rumors.html

 

I will use my 6-inch voice for this one.

 

It's not that I don't believe that Junior Griffey is available, I'm sure he is. Not only that, but I think it would be awesome to have Griffey Jr. and Frank Thomas in the same lineup. Those two were MVP candidates in the mid-90's. However, I know that he will never end up on the Chicago White Sox, and talking about it is mundane and uninformed.

 

If you're going to talk trade rumors, talk about plausible ones, mmmK?

Edited July 11, 2005 by Steve9347