3 Way trade????

[3E8]

So let me just make sure of this...

 

One of the big reasons people have said we can't use El Duque is that he gives up too many baserunners...he has a WHIP of 1.63, etc.

 

Zach Day has a WHIP of 1.83.  In a national league pitcher's park.

1. This season's stats are too small a sample size. He's started just 5 games. In those games his WHIP was actually better than Duque's. In 2003 his WHIP was 1.45 and 2004 his WHIP was 1.39.

 

2. Day = groundball pitcher, Duque = flyball pitcher. I know which I'd rather have in the Cell

 

3. Day has promise, El Duque has none. He's in his upper 30's and I think he's becoming weaker. Day is young at 27 and has shown to be an above average pitcher in the past with little MLB experience.

 

4. I have no idea if we could unload Duque's contract on anybody. But Day makes a tenth of what Duque does.

 

5. Can't say much about injuries because Day has never pitched a full season. But something tells me when Duque comes off the DL he won't spend the whole second half injury free either.

[White Sox Josh]

If its that simple what's with his ERA over 6.00 and all the walks? Its not like he's pitching for Tampa. He's got a pretty good defensive infield in Washington.

he had a 3.60 ERA last year before he got hurt. His career ERA isn't that bad. I believe it's in the low 4's.

[beck72]

If the sox want to get a consistent SP/ long relief guy for this year, Day isn't exactly it. He looks and sounds like a trading chip, not a guy who can help this year.

[Rowand44]

Day's got a good arm and has been a pretty solid pitcher in his career. I wouldn't mind him but I don't want to give up much to get him. It doesn't sound like Colorado wants much in return for Wilson so we'll see I guess. Beck could be right as well though, maybe Day would be used as part of a deal for someone like Burnett where the Marlins would want a starting pitcher in return since they're still in the race.

[wsox08]

he sounds like he could help out the team as a #5 starter or a long reliever aka when Contreras struggles. I wouldn't give top prospects for him, but his sinkerball and his pitching have always looked "good" to me.

[WSFAN35]

If Day comes to the Sox, he will be a 6th starter. spelling Duque and whoever else needs rest. Getting him is a good move because he's a young pitcher with promise who can take over the 5th spot next year.

[wsox08]

If Day comes to the Sox, he will be a 6th starter. spelling Duque and whoever else needs rest.  Getting him is a good move because he's a young pitcher with promise who can take over the 5th spot next year.

[Dick Allen]

1.  This season's stats are too small a sample size.  He's started just 5 games.  In those games his WHIP was actually better than Duque's. In 2003 his WHIP was 1.45 and 2004 his WHIP was 1.39.

 

2.  Day = groundball pitcher, Duque = flyball pitcher.  I know which I'd rather have in the Cell

 

3.  Day has promise, El Duque has none.  He's in his upper 30's and I think he's becoming weaker.  Day is young at 27 and has shown to be an above average pitcher in the past with little MLB experience.

 

4.  I have no idea if we could unload Duque's contract on anybody.  But Day makes a tenth of what Duque does.

 

5.  Can't say much about injuries because Day has never pitched a full season.  But something tells me when Duque comes off the DL he won't spend the whole second half injury free either.

 

 

Pitchers with a lot of promise who make $360,000 a year on first place teams usually are not available. Day walks a lot of guys. His numbers haven't been too impressive. A lot of people on this board says you have to add a run to NL pitcher's ERA's to determine how they will do in the AL. It all comes out very bad. It would mean he has a career AL equivalent ERA of 5.31. If they are trading for him to use as a chip for something better, that's great. To trade for him to actually contribute is far fetched. I agree with you about El Duque. I don't think he's ever been healthy this season, and I would be shocked if he doesn't go on the DL again. I think KW can do better than Day.

[Rowand44]

Pitchers with a lot of promise who make $360,000 a year on first place teams usually are not available. Day walks a lot of guys. His numbers haven't been too impressive. A lot of people on this board says you have to add a run to NL pitcher's ERA's to determine how they will do in the AL. It all comes out very bad. It would mean he has a career AL equivalent ERA of 5.31. If they are trading for him to use as a chip for something better, that's great. To trade for him to actually contribute is far fetched. I agree with you about El Duque. I don't think he's ever been healthy this season, and I would be shocked if he doesn't go on the DL again. I think KW can do better than Day.

That might be why he's looking at Day though so he can do better.

[Whitewashed in '05]

I am not against acquiring Day as long as we don't give up too much. Obviously if KW is looking at this guy during our great season he sees something in him he thinks he can improve. Count rebounded great in his last start and its because of the staff that made him throw more fastballs and gave him confidence.

 

Hanging around Buehrle and Garland will help him out a ton, especially when u can compare him and Garland. If they both have some of the same mental issues that keeps them from being good and KW thinks he can fix it why not? If he doesn't work out, release him. I don't mind this move at all, being around great pitching like we have will make you change.

 

I remember what the big 3 said in Oakland, they all said their season was like a big competition, everyone tried to out-do each other on the mound. Like I said if KW thinks they can fix him, im all for it.

[Jake]

Don't put all your faith in Coop.

 

I talked to a guy who left professional baseball a couple years ago because of an injury, and he now works for the NPA (National Pitching Association) that is commanded by Tom House. Tom House is the only pitching coach that is actually employed by Major League Baseball. Japan and Cuba also have been known to consult him for pitching help. He is best known for teaching Mark Prior his motion. Anyways, this guy said of Major League pitching coaches, 2-5 actually know what they're doing. He said many were good themselves, and think their way is automatically right for everyone. Many stick to old and harmful mantras which hurt pitches. So don't think Coop is necessarily a miracle worker.

 

BTW, Kris Honel went to this Tom House guy after his injury for a lesson, and after House attempted to change his motion Honel decided to leave. Hmm.

[S720]

If we have the chance to get Schmidt, we definitely have to get him. If we want to win the WS, we have to get another quality starting pitcher and another quality batter. If you're going to ask me who, Hell no, I don't know know who? That's KW 's job.

[CWSGuy406]

Average at best?

 

Age 24 - ERA+ = 115

Age 25 - ERA+ = 119

Age 26 - ERA+ = 105

 

Seems to me he's been nothing but above average, not to mention very young, and very cheap.  f*** sending him elsewhere.  I've admired him as a pitcher and watched his starts for awhile now, so I'm a little jaded on this issue.

 

I know I'm late on this, but I've come to trust your analysis -- sign me up, if it only takes a mid-level prospect or two -- or even Harris.

 

Three seasons with an ERA+ above average, and entering his prime? Hell yeah, I'd love it.

[ChWRoCk2]

If Day comes to the Sox, he will be a 6th starter. spelling Duque and whoever else needs rest.  Getting him is a good move because he's a young pitcher with promise who can take over the 5th spot next year.

thats really the only reason why i see day as a fit, i dont know if i would throw him at home from the way hes pitched so far this year though, id rather have him switch around with cotts and all

[upnorthsox]

If the Sox are giving about 4M dollars plus prospects so this trade can go through. I think we are going to get alot more back than just Zach Day

 

IIRC you can only send $1 mil in cash with a player unless it's the balance of a signing bonus which then you are obligated to send.

[GoodAsGould]

IIRC you can only send $1 mil in cash with a player unless it's the balance of a signing bonus which then you are obligated to send.

 

 

Didnt the yanks send us 2 million for Contreras's contract? Or is that different since they are paying for part of his contract rather than giving money.

[upnorthsox]

Didnt the yanks send us 2 million for Contreras's contract?  Or is that different since they are paying for part of his contract rather than giving money.

 

They sent the $3 mil that remained of Joses' signing bonus, we still have to pay his $7 mil this yr and $8 mil next yr.

 

That $1 mil limit may be more by now and the commish can always approve a bigger amount but he's been hesitant to do so(that was one of the reasons the ARod to Boston deal fell thru). Now things got weird with the Sosa deal which makes me unsure but I believe they were able to send all that money because it involved a trade clause bonus and not just straight salary.

[3E8]

Pitchers with a lot of promise who make $360,000 a year on first place teams usually are not available. Day walks a lot of guys. His numbers haven't been too impressive. A lot of people on this board says you have to add a run to NL pitcher's ERA's to determine how they will do in the AL. It all comes out very bad. It would mean he has a career AL equivalent ERA of 5.31. If they are trading for him to use as a chip for something better, that's great. To trade for him to actually contribute is far fetched. I agree with you about El Duque. I don't think he's ever been healthy this season, and I would be shocked if he doesn't go on the DL again. I think KW can do better than Day.

I didn't say "a lot of promise", I'm wasn't projecting him to be more than a back of the rotation starter.

 

Someone compared Day to Saarloos earlier. Along with being similar pitchers their situations are also similar. He was young and cheap, was first a starter and then moved to the bullpen. He put up below average numbers, and I think Houston had the same 'what have you done for me lately' mentality so he was traded to Oakland. Now he's got a winning record and an ERA under 4.

 

Also, adding a run to an NL pitcher's ERA to determine what he'll do in the AL is unfair and wildly inaccurate. Sometimes it's higher, sometimes it's lower a la Saarloos, Millwood, Clement, Byrd etc. Who knows, maybe the pitcher matches up well against divisional opponents, maybe they feel very comfortable on the new home mound, maybe they click with the pitching coach.

 

All that being said, this is probably moot because I think this deal has died.

[YASNY]

They sent the $3 mil that remained of Joses' signing bonus, we still have to pay his $7 mil this yr and $8 mil next yr.

 

That $1 mil limit may be more by now and the commish can always approve a bigger amount but he's been hesitant to do so(that was one of the reasons the ARod to Boston deal fell thru).  Now things got weird with the Sosa deal which makes me unsure but I believe they were able to send all that money because it involved a trade clause bonus and not just straight salary.

 

It was the MLBPA that put the screws to the ARod to Boston deal, not the commish.

[upnorthsox]

It was the MLBPA that put the screws to the ARod to Boston deal, not the commish.

 

True, in the end it was the MLBPA but IIRC one of the hangups early was that Texas wanted Boston to pay a big chunk of Manny's contract and they had to get the commish's approval to do that. I believe that's what led Boston to try to get ARod to adjust his contract which then brought the MLBPA into the scene. That all seems so long ago now.