What about Al Leiter as cheap option?

[quade36]

Marlins designate Leiter for assignment

Club has 10 days to trade or release the left-hander

By Joe Frisaro / MLB.com

 

PHILADELPHIA -- Al Leiter, one of the most reliable left-handed pitchers in baseball for the past decade, had his second stint with the Marlins come to an end on Thursday when he was designated for assignment.

 

The Marlins have 10 days to either trade Leiter or grant him his outright release.

 

"He's a real pro, a good guy," Marlins manager Jack McKeon said Thursday. "He feels probably as bad as anybody. He's an all-around class guy. I think we all hate to see him go."

 

The 39-year-old Leiter, who signed as a free agent last December, was expected to provide leadership to a relatively young rotation while offering big-game experience.

 

While Leiter provided insights to a talented staff that includes Dontrelle Willis, Josh Beckett and A.J. Burnett, the veteran left-hander never got into a pitching groove. From the beginning of Spring Training, through 17 games with the Marlins (including 16 starts), Leiter lacked consistency.

 

After suffering a loss to the Cubs on Sunday at Dolphins Stadium, Leiter watched his record fall to 3-7 while his ERA rose to 6.64. Falling behind batters was a constant problem, as evident by the fact Leiter walked 60 batters in 80 innings, while he gave up 88 hits.

 

Even before Leiter signed a one-year deal worth $8 million with the Marlins, he was leaning toward this being his final season.

 

A respected veteran with a lifetime 158-127 record, Leiter played a crucial role in the Marlins winning the World Series in 1997. On May 11, 1996, he tossed the first no-hitter in Marlins history, blanking the Rockies 11-0.

 

But this season his bread-and-butter pitch, his cut fastball, wasn't finding the mark. Scouts noted that his pitches were starting to flatten out and he wasn't as deceptive as he had been.

 

The Marlins were leaning toward starting Leiter on Monday at Arizona, but those plans changed after he gave up six runs (five earned) in three-plus innings to the Cubs on Sunday.

 

Along with releasing Leiter, the Marlins called up left-hander Jason Vargas from Double-A Carolina. McKeon said that Vargas will start Monday's game at Arizona.

[tonyho7476]

Too pukey...let me illustrate...

 

:puke

Edited July 14, 2005 by tonyho7476

[FLsouthsider]

Leiter is waaaaaay off his game and somewhat uncharacteristically walking guys left and right. I'd stay away from this one, unless we can get him in the announcer's booth.

[CanOfCorn]

Leiter is waaaaaay off his game and somewhat uncharacteristically walking guys left and right. I'd stay away from this one, unless we can get him in the announcer's booth.

 

Nope. He's done. Great competitor, great color guy. Arm fell off.

[DukeNukeEm]

He'll come back to the Marlins in the booth.

[Wedge]

You know, his stats don't look too much worse from Schmidt's...

 

is everybody off the Schmidt bandwagon yet?

[Punch and Judy Garland]

We might learn a little bit about Schmitty tonight with that AS rest against the Dodgers.

[Wedge]

We might learn a little bit about Schmitty tonight with that AS rest against the Dodgers.

 

Maybe, but I don't think Schmitty has done much this season to suggest that he's over his arm problems and that it's worth trading two major league pitchers for him.

[southsideirish]

:puke

[Punch and Judy Garland]

Well, clearly he isn't 100 percent healthy. How close to that can he come? He was better than Loaiza and Halladay in 03-he was probably the game's best pitcher. IF he can somehow learn to deal with a little less velocity then he is a postseason series changer.

[Guest JimH]

It's something mechanical with Leiter IMO. He was very good last year with the Mets and gave them 30 starts. He's walking guys and his cut fastball is flat, that tells me he's got a release point or arm slot problem.

 

Last winter he only considered the Mets or the Marlins and he's pushing 40 so I don't expect he'd shop himself around the league but it wouldn't surprise me if some team picked him up to see if anything is left. This guy is a wily pro who can pitch in pressure situations. I would not write him off just yet.

[Guest JimH]

Well, clearly he isn't 100 percent healthy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You might be right but to my knowledge he hasn't complained of any health issues this year. We'll soon find out I suppose, but my guess is it's mechanical.

 

One thing about this though ... I wonder how much Leiter himself influenced this decision, i.e. did he go to them and say "hey, I just don't have it any more" or was it the Marlins making the decision unilaterally. If it was the Marlins decision, then some other team may talk him into giving it a go.

[Pauly8509CWS]

:puke

 

Well said

[AirScott]

Leiter's old, Schimdt's hurt. I take hurt over old when it comes to pitchers, because if/when Schmidt's 100% again, he's only 31 so he should go back to dominating. Leiter, even if his problems are mechanical, may be too old to take a chance on, and we'll probably hear him calling playoff games again come October.

[VAfan]

You know, his stats don't look too much worse from Schmidt's...

 

is everybody off the Schmidt bandwagon yet?

 

I still think Schmidt is a much more likely trade target then AJ Burnett. For one, the Giants, but not the Marlins, are out of the race. For another, the Giants might accept Contreras as part of the return package. Then we won't have any problem exercising Schmidt's option for 2006. And everyone would recognize that Schmidt has been a whole lot better than Burnett over the last 3 years. The only concern people have is his early-season decline in velocity. Yet the last game he pitched I saw and he didn't look like an injured pitcher to me, and he was firing pitches at 95 consistently through the middle innings and into the 7th.

 

Leiter? I'd take him for nothing if he'd accept a rehab assignment at AAA to see if he could be sorted out. Would he take that? I don't know.

[AnthraxFan93]

Lets just trade the Yankees For Jaime Wright..

[Y2HH]

Die. Even though that was "green"...die.

 

Lets just trade the Yankees For Jaime Wright..

[Wedge]

I still think Schmidt is a much more likely trade target then AJ Burnett.  For one, the Giants, but not the Marlins, are out of the race.  For another, the Giants might accept Contreras as part of the return package.  Then we won't have any problem exercising Schmidt's option for 2006.  And everyone would recognize that Schmidt has been a whole lot better than Burnett over the last 3 years.  The only concern people have is his early-season decline in velocity.  Yet the last game he pitched I saw and he didn't look like an injured pitcher to me, and he was firing pitches at 95 consistently through the middle innings and into the 7th. 

 

Leiter?  I'd take him for nothing if he'd accept a rehab assignment at AAA to see if he could be sorted out.  Would he take that?  I don't know.

 

I believe that most agreed that the price for Schmidt would be Contreras, BMac, and a prospect. That's pretty expensive for a guy that you're unsure if he'll be with you next year and if he can be healthy.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I watch the GIants on mlb.tv sometimes and they have mentioned how they try to buy him an extra day's rest and how they've tried not having him throw between starts to combat the tired shoulder (this was all in April).

[AngelasDaddy0427]

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jul 14, 2005 -> 04:39 PM)

I still think Schmidt is a much more likely trade target then AJ Burnett.  For one, the Giants, but not the Marlins, are out of the race.  For another, the Giants might accept Contreras as part of the return package.  Then we won't have any problem exercising Schmidt's option for 2006.  And everyone would recognize that Schmidt has been a whole lot better than Burnett over the last 3 years.  The only concern people have is his early-season decline in velocity.  Yet the last game he pitched I saw and he didn't look like an injured pitcher to me, and he was firing pitches at 95 consistently through the middle innings and into the 7th. 

 

Leiter?  I'd take him for nothing if he'd accept a rehab assignment at AAA to see if he could be sorted out.  Would he take that?  I don't know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe nothing but I think your smarter then that... I don't get why I have to type this until my fingers are sore though...

 

JASON SCHMIDT IS OVER! JUST ACCEPT IT! HE NEVER HAD A DECENT YEAR TILL HE WENT TO THE GIANTS!

 

A) Pitchers Park

B) Balco Land

 

Now his velocity is down, imagine that... ohh and he's back to being mediocore in the 4's again... Yet it's ok to trade Jose and prospects for him because he's a bigger name even though he will give us no better production and maybe even a little worse.... right? Ohh and Felix Diaz will thank you when him and BMAC are our 4th and 5th starters when him and El Duque are on the DL...

 

Now back to seeing a hundred more Jason Schmidt posts and doing this... :banghead

Edited July 15, 2005 by Jeckle2000

[VAfan]

I believe that most agreed that the price for Schmidt would be Contreras, BMac, and a prospect.  That's pretty expensive for a guy that you're unsure if he'll be with you next year and if he can be healthy.

 

Contreras yes (he can't pitch against Cleveland every game), but we wouldn't have to give up BMac. I'd let them have Brian Anderson though, because he's not going to beat out Dye this year or next, and after that Sweeney or Young might be ready.

 

And Jeckle 2000, this is why you would buy Jason Schmidt:

 

2002 SF 29 29 2 2 185.1 148 78 71 15 73 196 13 8 0 0 -- 3.45

2003 SF 29 29 5 3 208.2 152 56 54 14 46 208 17 5 0 0 -- 2.34

2004 SF 32 32 4 3 225.0 165 84 80 18 77 251 18 7 0 0 -- 3.20

 

By comparison, Freddy Garcia had these years in a similar pitcher's park:

 

2002 Sea 34 34 1 0 224.2 227 110 109 30 63 181 16 10 0 0 -- 4.39

2003 Sea 33 33 1 0 201.1 196 109 101 31 71 144 12 14 0 0 -- 4.52

 

I take it you are happy with Freddy's production with us.

 

If there wasn't some question about Schmidt there is no chance he would be available. But you can hardly say he's a lousy pitcher.

Edited July 15, 2005 by VAfan

[elrockinMT]

If we get anyone at all we don't need it to be someone that has cratered with/for another team.

[fathom]

I watched Leiter pitch against the Cubs last Sunday, and he sucked beyond belief. His WHIP is god awful this season in a pitcher's park. The guy seems afraid to throw a strike. I'd rather have Todd Ritchie than Leiter.

[Wedge]

Contreras yes (he can't pitch against Cleveland every game), but we wouldn't have to give up BMac.  I'd let them have Brian Anderson though, because he's not going to beat out Dye this year or next, and after that Sweeney or Young might be ready.

 

And Jeckle 2000, this is why you would buy Jason Schmidt:

 

2002 SF 29 29 2 2 185.1 148 78 71 15 73 196 13 8 0 0 -- 3.45

2003 SF 29 29 5 3 208.2 152 56 54 14 46 208 17 5 0 0 -- 2.34

2004 SF 32 32 4 3 225.0 165 84 80 18 77 251 18 7 0 0 -- 3.20

 

By comparison, Freddy Garcia had these years in a similar pitcher's park:

 

2002 Sea 34 34 1 0 224.2 227 110 109 30 63 181 16 10 0 0 -- 4.39

2003 Sea 33 33 1 0 201.1 196 109 101 31 71 144 12 14 0 0 -- 4.52

 

I take it you are happy with Freddy's production with us. 

 

If there wasn't some question about Schmidt there is no chance he would be available.  But you can hardly say he's a lousy pitcher.

 

San Fran said they wanted 3 players, a fairly establish, middle rotation type pitcher (Contreras), a young pitcher (McCarthy), and a prospect (Anderson). I don't think we could land Schmidt without giving up McCarthy.

 

The statistics you give are somewhat misleading. In 2004, Garcia performed fairly well in Seattle with a 3.20 ERA, which was in line with his ERA from 2000 and 2001. This suggested that over the three years we would have with Garcia that we should expect around a 4.00 ERA. In fact, this is correct: he had a 4.46 ERA with the Sox last season and a 3.53 ERA thus far this season.

 

Schmidt's career stats tell a different story. His initial seasons in Pittsburgh saw him posting nearly a 5.00 ERA. In 2001 he was traded to SF and been a fairly dominating pitcher (definitely an ace and a workhorse) with an ERA a little over 3. However, unlike Garcia, Schmidt is now dealing with injuries that a limiting him to the numbers he experienced early in his career in Pittsburgh. There are so many questions with Schmidt that should make you question if giving up Contreras, McCarthy, and another top prospect is worth it: are his SF numbers the result of playing in SF? Why the sudden loss of velocity? How will he transfer in the AL? How will he transfer to the Cell? I don't believe too much in chemistry, but how will adding a "star" player affect the dynamic of the pitching staff and the entire team? Will he be able to play well for us in 2006 or will his contract be an albatros hanging from our neck?

 

At this point in the season, those are questions I don't want to have to find out the answers to. Go with what we have, we're fine.

[Soxfest]

No AL