Novak told Rove about Plame and Rove admits to

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I know what you were going after, but the weakening of the CIA started long before there was a Karl Rove.

 

GMAFB.

 

 

Yeah. I think years of Clinton-era budget cuts and onerous restrictions did most of the damage.

[Balta1701]

Yeah.  I think years of Clinton-era budget cuts and onerous restrictions did most of the damage.

I will grant you in hindsight those budgets were a horrific mistake by the Clinton Administration...as were the times they chose not to try to kill Bin Laden.

 

That still doesn't justify this literal attack on the CIA.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I will grant you in hindsight those budgets were a horrific mistake by the Clinton Administration...as were the times they chose not to try to kill Bin Laden.

 

That still doesn't justify this literal attack on the CIA.

 

I'm not trying to justify anything, what happened here was absolutely horrible and those responsible should be made to rot in prison for a long time I don't care who they work for or how high up in the Administration they are. This guy risked his life for his country and someone paid him back for it by putting his life in further jeopardy. That's not how people like that should be treated I dont care what their political views are. Also freedom of the press be damned people who outed a CIA agent in the media and all of their sources should be put on trial for treason and locked up for a long time.

 

Just to clarify my position.

 

[kapkomet]

I'm pretty much right there with you, Nuke, but I'm getting sick of the witch-hunts all the way around. Our government is full of back-stabbing hacks who will do anything to either control or gain power.

[southsider2k5]

I'm pretty much right there with you, Nuke, but I'm getting sick of the witch-hunts all the way around.  Our government is full of back-stabbing hacks who will do anything to either control or gain power.

 

Then again if they would... oh I don't know follow the law!... they wouldn't have half of the problems that they do.

[Rex Kickass]

Yeah.  I think years of Clinton-era budget cuts and onerous restrictions did most of the damage.

 

If the shoe fits, blame Clinton instead.

 

Christ.

 

The CIA has been weakened progressively over the 80s and 90s. Bush 41 did just as much as Bill Clinton did. But that wouldn't fit most people's narrative so you don't hear about it.

 

I'm so sick and tired of unacceptable behavior being explained away by "the other guy did it." It's still unacceptable.

[Texsox]

Yeah.  I think years of Clinton-era budget cuts and onerous restrictions did most of the damage.

I can't wait until Nuke's in the rocking chair talking about Clinton.

 

I guess we never should have believed Reagan and the Peace Dividend he promised after we ran up record deficits.

 

[For the youngin's who probably never knew this. Reagan sold his record deficits by explaining we would destroy the "Evil Empire" (Soviet Union not Yankees) and then be able to cut back on defense and spy spending. ]

[kapkomet]

If the shoe fits, blame Clinton instead.

 

Christ.

 

The CIA has been weakened progressively over the 80s and 90s. Bush 41 did just as much as Bill Clinton did. But that wouldn't fit most people's narrative so you don't hear about it.

 

I'm so sick and tired of unacceptable behavior being explained away by "the other guy did it." It's still unacceptable.

My point is, there are so many here that want to start threads and conversations fully for the purpose of saying what an asshole Bush and his adminstration is.

 

Then, others come on here and start saying what an asshole Clinton is and will support Bush to the bitter end.

 

They are ALL assholes, and we elect them. We all think they should do better then they do, but then come election day, we become ball-less (sorry ladies but you get my point) robots who pull the lever of least resistance. It's a f***ing shame. This country is going to hell, slowly but surely, but as long as those fat-ass paychecks keep rolling in, it doesn't matter.

 

America: the modern day Roman Empire. See what happened to them, and see what's happening to us.

 

I should add this to the cliche thread, those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it. HELLO, let's look in the mirror.

Edited July 18, 2005 by kapkomet

[LowerCaseRepublican]

My point is, there are so many here that want to start threads and conversations fully for the purpose of saying what an asshole Bush and his adminstration is.

 

Then, others come on here and start saying what an asshole Clinton is and will support Bush to the bitter end.

 

They are ALL assholes, and we elect them.  We all think they should do better then they do, but then come election day, we become ball-less (sorry ladies but you get my point) robots who pull the lever of least resistance.  It's a f***ing shame.  This country is going to hell, slowly but surely, but as long as those fat-ass paychecks keep rolling in, it doesn't matter.

 

America: the modern day Roman Empire.  See what happened to them, and see what's happening to us.

 

I should add this to the cliche thread, those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it.  HELLO, let's look in the mirror.

Post.Of.The.Year. ^

 

Kap, that reminds me of the old Alan Moore quote: In fact, let us not mince words...the management is terrible! We've had a string of embezzlers, frauds, liars and lunatics making a string of catastrophic decisions. This is plain fact. But who elected them? It was you! You who appointed these people! You who gave them the power to make decisions for you! While I'll admit that anyone can make a mistake once, to go on making the same lethal errors century after century seems to me to be nothing short of deliberate. You have encouraged those malicious incompetents, who have made your working life a shambles. You have accepted without question their senseless orders. All you had to say was "No." You have no spine. You have no pride. You are no longer an asset to the company.

[Balta1701]

September 29, 2003:

 

Scott McClellan: "If anyone in this administration was involved in it [the improper disclosure of an undercover CIA operative's identity], they would no longer be in this administration."

 

September 30, 2003"

 

Bush: "If somebody did leak classified information, I'd like to know it, and we'll take the appropriate action."

 

Today:

 

Bush: "If someone committed a crime, they will no longer work in my administration."

 

Ah, moving goalposts.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Note the subtleties in the change of tune. Now it's not enough that you leaked the information to get wired from the White House staff. You now actually have to be found guilty of a crime.

 

Bush said in June 2004 that he would fire anyone in his administration shown to have leaked information that exposed the identity of Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame. On Monday, however, he added the qualifier that it would have be shown that a crime was committed.

 

Very convenient for Karl and, very likely for Scooter Libby as well.

 

I think it's all going to hinge on whether the six or so journalists called by the 'unnamed administration staffer' while shopping the Plame story to them come forward and confirm that Plame was in fact knowingly outed at that time. I don't know if those cold calls to the press happened after Novak and the official spoke, but if so then I think a strong argument can still be made that the outing was deliberate and knowing.

[Balta1701]

Don't you just adore the high standard he's holding himself to...to paraphrase....

 

"No convicted felons will work in the White House"

[FlaSoxxJim]

Don't you just adore the high standard he's holding himself to...to paraphrase....

 

"No convicted felons will work in the White House"

This coming of course from the same guy who last week suggested that his pending SCOTUS nominees need not be judges... or even lawyers (hell, maybe I should apply). Presidential hubris attains new heights.

[Balta1701]

This coming of course from the same guy who last week suggested that his pending SCOTUS nominees need not be judges... or even lawyers (hell, maybe I should apply).  Presidential hubris attains new heights.

Damn that John Kerry, he's somehow projected his flip-floppyness on our wonderful, straight-talking honorable God-fearing administration! This has to be his fault...no one else but him ever flip-flops on a policy position!

[EvilMonkey]

Damn that John Kerry, he's somehow projected his flip-floppyness on our wonderful, straight-talking honorable God-fearing administration!  This has to be his fault...no one else but him ever flip-flops on a policy position!

 

YOUR guy waffles on the issues

MY guy sees the merits of both sides of the argument

 

YOUR guy would pack the courts with judicial hacks who'll rubber stamp his extremist agenda

MY guy will hand pick eminent jurists whose rulings reflect the will of the American People

 

YOUR guy stonewalls the press

MY guy reserves the right not to disclose information that could jeapordize the national interest

 

YOUR guy flip-flops on the issues

MY guy has refined his position

 

YOUR guy panders to lunatic fringe groups

MY guy reaches out to disenfranchised voters

 

YOUR guy surrounds himself with boot-licking toadie who are nothing but yes-men

MY guy puts together a team that shares his dream for a better America

 

 

sorry, I am not that funny. Courtesy of Alfred E. Neuman. They all suck, they all cover their own, quit getting so indignant (not you specifically) when it is someone from the 'other side'.

[KipWellsFan]

It's hilarious to see Bush say that no one will be fired unless they are convicted of a crime. There is almost no chance that Rove will be convicted now or any time in the near future. I could see someone like McClellan resigning though. Polls aren't looking good though as both Right and Left seem angered. Only a quarter of Americans believe the white house is cooperating and less than 50% of Republicans which is a big decline. Oddly enough in 2003 91% of Americans thought someone who leaked information should be fired compared to 75% now.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/PollVault/story?id=949950

[Balta1701]

It's hilarious to see Bush say that no one will be fired unless they are convicted of a crime.  There is almost no chance that Rove will be convicted now or any time in the near future.

Tell that to Fitzgerald.

 

Somehow, I just can't believe that the guy would spend huge amounts of taxpayer dollars doing research, fighting in the courts, go all the way to the Supreme Court to rule 2 reporters in contempt, and then send 1 of them to jail if he didn't think something criminal had happened.

 

If he had any future political aspirations at all, he'd know that this investigation is a great way to advance them if he does things right. He's a Republican, but he's investigating a Republican, so that makes him appear bipartisan, which has to look good on a resume.

 

But if he were to foul it up or have it just suddenly go away, once the price tag got out, it would look absolutely awful for his career.

Edited July 18, 2005 by Balta1701

[KipWellsFan]

Good points, I didn't realize Fitzgerald was a Republican, do you have a link. I wish I could know the future, but I wouldn't worry so much if Rove just stepped down or his security was revoked.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Has anyone else read Hedrick Smith's "The Power Game?"

 

so good. all of this is perfect examples of distractionary politics and power grabbing. GWB is rendered powerless by the left and the distractions within his own party allow his failures, or difficulties rather, in Iraq to go unnoticed.

[Balta1701]

Good  points, I didn't realize Fitzgerald was a Republican, do you have a link.  I wish I could know the future, but I wouldn't worry so much if Rove just stepped down or his security was revoked.

Here's a WaPo piece on the Illinois Republican party scrambling to find a candidate to go against Obama in 2004 suggesting that they had tried to talk him into running. He did not.

 

He was also nominated for his current post by Peter Fitzgerald, former Republican Senator from Illinois.

[KipWellsFan]

Has anyone else read Hedrick Smith's "The Power Game?"

 

so good.  all of this is perfect examples of distractionary politics and power grabbing.  GWB is rendered powerless by the left and the distractions within his own party allow his failures, or difficulties rather, in Iraq to go unnoticed.

 

I don't think a civil war would go unnoticed.

[EvilMonkey]

Tell that to Fitzgerald.

 

Somehow, I just can't believe that the guy would spend huge amounts of taxpayer dollars doing research, fighting in the courts, go all the way to the Supreme Court to rule 2 reporters in contempt, and then send 1 of them to jail if he didn't think something criminal had happened.

 

 

Why not? Cops get a person in their mind that is guilty, they don't ever seem to give up until then get their man. Sometimes even to the point of making up evidence. Isn't that what prosecutors are accused of doing in Dupage county, or with that guy who they said killed and raped his little girl? Why is it so hard to think that THIS prosecutor couldn't just be a bit obsessed with this case, like the others? Afterall, he is known as a bulldog, and to come back with nothing, even if nothing is all there is, would look bad on him. For that reason alone, he COULD be prone to over-reaching, etc. It has happened before (albeit not to him, that we know of), no reason it can't happen again.

[Rex Kickass]

Another picture that tells too much.

 

 

Picture of Bob Novak and Karl Rove from June 2003. Karl Rove is wearing a button that says "I'm a Source, Not a Target."

[kapkomet]

LMAO

 

Photoshop is a GREAT program.

[Rex Kickass]

It does look fairly fake, but still it makes me laugh.