Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 i still say get rid of kw and you get rid of the problems.... but you guys never listen to me anyhow............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 i still say get rid of kw and you get rid of the problems.... but you guys never listen to me anyhow............. I listen to you HSC! After all you are the info-lady around here! CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt52235 Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 Good point CW. I just want to see a change happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted May 1, 2003 Author Share Posted May 1, 2003 i still say get rid of kw and you get rid of the problems.... but you guys never listen to me anyhow............. its not that we dont listen to you..we agree with you on that (majority i would guess)...its just that they wille fire the manager before the GM..the manager is always the first to go...you could say that JM has to be sacrificed before there is any chance of KW leaving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 yeah be that as it may.. each and every case is different... and in this one i could scream that jm's problems didnt start till the control freak kw came onto the scene..........and i can also back that up with the numbers and facts of the past few seasons.......right????? im thinking i need to leave a nice little letter on jr's computer tonite..........kw must go.....plain and simple............replace him with mickey mouse if ya have to but hes got to get the hell out of here before we loose any chances of winning anything........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 I just now looked this up. In 1999...too far back for me to remember...the Mets had a record of 97-66. Their offense was very good....comparable to ours. However....that team either did what we did in 2000...or Bobby V had something to do with it. Either way....if brought in....I think he could make a difference for the long run. Only one had an ERA of about 4.00(Kenny Rogers started 12 games...had an ERA of 4.03). Al Leiter had an ERA of 4.23....Masato Yoshii had an ERA of 4.40....Rick Reed had an ERA of 4.58...as did Orel Hersheiser....and Octavio Dotel had an ERA of 5.38. They won a combined 62 games. They did have a great bullpen...with no one having a ERA above 4.00. That 99 Mets team is comparable to ours....except for 2 things in my mind. This White Sox team has much, much better starting pitching than that team...and we have two big game pitchers in Buehrle and Colon. The other thing is the fact that that Met team had much, much more speed. Hell, Rickey Henderson and Roger Cedeno had a combined 103 steals....that's more than we've probably gotten the past two years combined. I guarantee you we'd be playing a little more small ball and we'd be manufacturing runs. Rey Ordonez doesn't drive in 60 runs by hitting the crap out of the ball. Last I checked....you couldn't hit 25-run homers. This team, IMO, would be better off with Bobby Valentine instead of Jerry Manuel. HSC....you said Bobby's record isn't exactly stellar. Jerry's is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 HSC....you said Bobby's record isn't exactly stellar. Jerry's is? did you miss cw's breakdown or should i quote it again for you???? yes jm's short record is better than bobbys list of non first place teams........if were gonna dick around with this then lets go full bull and get someone in here who can win...thats what the main goal is anyhow.. winning........f*** second place............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 HSC said, change KW before you change JM or you have the same problems - and HSC also has said no to Valentine. 'Cuse me HSC for talking for you - I am more antiValentine the more I research his history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BridgeportHeather Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 I just hope that something is done QUICK...because we need some shakeup to get these players' asses out of their brains!!! Backman's my first choice. But Bobby V could rile come cages in there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 I also want to ask two quick things. How many playoff appearances has Manuel made? By my count....it is 1. Bobby's made it twice. How many World Series appearances has Manuel made? By my count....none....and Bobby's made it once. IMO....getting to the playoffs is key. You get there....and you got a helluva shot at a World Championship even if you are outmatched and outgunned. The Twins were both by the A's....yet still scratched out 3 wins. You win any way you can. I think Valentine would make a fine fit in Chicago. Then again....that's JMO. I say that mainly because he'd bring a small-ball, NL type of play to the South Side. I like that. That would help this team a lot. Getting back to fundamentals should be this team's #1 goal(with World Series at #2 of course...lol)...and if that means making a manager change...so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 did you miss cw's breakdown or should i quote it again for you???? yes jm's short record is better than bobbys list of non first place teams........if were gonna dick around with this then lets go full bull and get someone in here who can win...thats what the main goal is anyhow.. winning........f*** second place............ I did miss it...I was busy typing away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 How many playoff appearances has Manuel made? By my count....it is 1. Bobby's made it twice. once in 5 years twice in 15 years JM wins again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Valentine's again Year League Team G W L WP Finish +----+-----------+--------+-----+----+----+------+------+ 1985 AL West Texas 129 53 76 .411 7 1986 AL West Texas 162 87 75 .537 2 1987 AL West Texas 162 75 87 .463 6 1988 AL West Texas 161 70 91 .435 6 1989 AL West Texas 162 83 79 .512 4 1990 AL West Texas 162 83 79 .512 3 1991 AL West Texas 162 85 77 .525 3 1992 AL West Texas 86 45 41 .523 4 1996 NL East NewYorkM 31 12 19 .387 4 1997 NL East NewYorkM 162 88 74 .543 3 1998 NL East NewYorkM 162 88 74 .543 2 1999 NL East NewYorkM 163 97 66 .595 2 2000 NL East NewYorkM 162 94 68 .580 NL 2 2001 NL East NewYorkM 162 82 80 .506 3 2002 NL East NewYorkM 161 75 86 .466 5 +----+-----------+--------+-----+----+----+------+------+ NewYorkM 1003 536 467 .534 Texas 1186 581 605 .490 +----+-----------+--------+-----+----+----+------+------+ TOTAL 2189 1117 1072 .510 so in other words, JM's winning % is better than Valentine's - it is simple math - you want to make a change from JM to someone with a lesser record? And if you want to argue that 512 and 510 are almost the same, then why make a sheer lateral move for a man whose never won a division title in his life - which at least JM has? If you make a change, go for something real, not the tired and old and with a lesser record to boot. cause you missed it the first time around.....wsf........and cw thats ok talk for me all you want.. well unless it involved clayton lol.. but you know where i stand here ............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 damn it HSC! Look at that font! I was screaming! How unlike me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 How many playoff appearances has Manuel made? By my count....it is 1. Bobby's made it twice. once in 5 years twice in 15 years JM wins again! I am looking at the talent on those teams as well though. JM has had very good talent and with this he should be winning. He is not. The injury bug bit us in the ass in 2001....but in 2002, we were once again one of the healthiest teams in the majors. The only ones that were really recovering from surgery were Thomas, Osuna, and Wunsch. He should have won. He didn't. Meanwhile....Bobby won with seemingly bad teams in Texas....with Nolan Ryan, Jose Guzman, and Kevin Brown as his best pitchers...and Palmeiro, Gonzalez, Sierra, Franco, Beuchele, and Kevin Reimer as his big bats one year. Compare that to what Manuel had last year....and you'd figure that Manuel would be the one with the better record. Last year....Manuel finished 81-81. That year....Bobby V finished 85-77. A full 4-games better. You might say that had we had better luck, say, against the Twins last year in the last series of the year when we lost 2 straight games by way of Bobby Kielty two run homers....that it would be closer. Not in my book. IMO....and this is a possibly a stretch....we win those games with Bobby V. Bobby V doesn't let Buehrle, who had been tired, pitch to Kielty. Instead, he brings in a fresh arm. With Bobby V...Buehrle doesn't lose 12 games. He loses 11. With Bobby V....we win 20 games. As I said...that's quite possibly a very big stretch....but that's a possible way it could go with Bobby V. And if I'm thinking of the right Bobby Valentine....that's the way it does go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 take it for what its worth coming from the score but north says he has inside sources saying manuel is gone and his replacement will be either bobby valentin or wally backman Bobby Valentin..... ROTFLMAO!!! That right there tells ya he's full of s***! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 JM and KW are both no good cocksuckers...........goodbye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 i was thinking that too about bobby v hsc...but then i remembered you telling me about eddie e being back and taking more of a proactive roll and how he is no fan of KW....could bobby v be an eddie e hiring??? Hope you're right. Like Eddie Einhorn much more than Uncle Jerry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Firing KW doesn't make any sense to me at all. Yeah, he deserves the blame for the failed Wells and Ritchie incidents, but I honestly believe he's finally figuring the GM trade out. He's made some very solid minor league trades which no one hears about, and they could possibly help in the near future. KW has put together a very solid team this year, and that's his job. Manuel, on the other hand, should be fire and drowned in the Chicago River. No enthusiasm, no balls, no emotion. When you are a passive manager, players will begin to stop caring and slack off, look what has happened for 2+ years now. The one instance where JM actually grew some balls was with Garland, saying he better get his s*** together. The start after he says this, Garland pitches 5 2/3 IP 2 ER. Also, look what Lou Piniella has done in Tampa Bay. He gets all over those kids down there, and they have really improved as a ballclub. If anyone here thinks that KW is the problem, and not Manuel, you have some serious issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 the only issues i have with your statement is that you do not have all the facts to back up any part of jerry being responsible for the mishaps ......are you ever in the clubhouse or know anyone who is when kw is sitting there handing jm the lineup card for the nite and going over what to do if this happens or that........no im sure your not....nor are you there when the phone constantaly rings and kw is telling jm what to do next.. you cant blame all this on jm ..his only fault is he has no balls to tell kw to f*** off and let him do his job... other than that we did fine before kw and we will be back on track after him... KW MUST GO FIRST................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Having no balls is generally a fatal flaw for major league managers. This team is underachieving. I wonder if anyone has contacted Leyland? Is he too comfortable in retirement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Manuel, on the other hand, should be fire and drowned in the Chicago River. What the hell kind of comment is that? I assume everyone is perfect at their job? If not, all of you can go jump in the f***ing Chicago river. Whether Manuel gets fired or not, you guys are acting like he is not human. You talk about him like he is a piece of s***. I can guarantee you that he wants to win more than any of you f***ers. I was going to write a nice calm post about him, but obviously the majority here coulnd't understand fair comments looking at things from both sides. You want to get the team going? Send FT to AAA. The bastard has done s***. Send Konerko out. Hell, you guys wanted to crucify Carlos Lee and he is one of the only guys hitting well now. While we're at it, let's just demote the whole damned team and switch it with Charlotte. They seem to be playing well. Let's just hope they don't struggle, cause you guys would panic after the first guy went 0-4 two days in a row! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Having no balls is generally a fatal flaw for major league managers. This team is underachieving. I wonder if anyone has contacted Leyland? Is he too comfortable in retirement? And if JM has no balls other then to accept what KW is telling him (Sorry Michelle, but I still don't think any GM is forcing their manager into anything; I still love ya though )then he shouldn't be here anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Manuel, on the other hand, should be fire and drowned in the Chicago River. What the hell kind of comment is that? I assume everyone is perfect at their job? If not, all of you can go jump in the f***ing Chicago river. Whether Manuel gets fired or not, you guys are acting like he is not human. You talk about him like he is a piece of s***. I can guarantee you that he wants to win more than any of you f***ers. I was going to write a nice calm post about him, but obviously the majority here coulnd't understand fair comments looking at things from both sides. You want to get the team going? Send FT to AAA. The bastard has done s***. Send Konerko out. Hell, you guys wanted to crucify Carlos Lee and he is one of the only guys hitting well now. While we're at it, let's just demote the whole damned team and switch it with Charlotte. They seem to be playing well. Let's just hope they don't struggle, cause you guys would panic after the first guy went 0-4 two days in a row! PREACH IT REX !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its not all jerrys fault.. and its easy for me to point fingers at kw too.. but its A TEAM EFFORT which is failing this bunch on the field now.........we suck plain and simple.........not jerrys fault he didnt pick the talent which he has to work with............. you rock rex.. adn thanks for pointing out the things my hatred for kw wouldnt let me mention...............and to say something about that too for a minute.. i dont hate kw the person... as i have always said to anyone here and everyone.. i like kw personally.. hes a very nice guy.....never denied that...but i cant stand kw the gm.. he doesnt have a clue how to run things at the major level and i dont think he will ever figure it out.... his time is up and its time for him to go........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Having no balls is generally a fatal flaw for major league managers. This team is underachieving. I wonder if anyone has contacted Leyland? Is he too comfortable in retirement? And if JM has no balls other then to accept what KW is telling him (Sorry Michelle, but I still don't think any GM is forcing their manager into anything; I still love ya though )then he shouldn't be here anyway. jas write jerry and ask him what goes on .. im sure he wont have a problem telling you.. or better yet your in cally find some of the old guys like foulke , ray or someone and ask them what happens in chicago.......they will bend your ears for hours.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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