My Rules for a Trade

[upnorthsox]

I understand that.

 

I was just addressing the point brought up about not needing a deep 'pen in the playoffs, as the BoSox only used three relievers (is that true?  I could've sworn they used Lowe out of the 'pen at one point or another). 

 

If the Sox could get the lead going into the seventh inning, that's huge.  Shortening the game by a third.  Then go to whatever combo in the seventh of Cotts/Politte, then in the 8th to Hermy/Marte, then to the ninth with Wagner (or Guardado).  That's an awesome bullpen.

 

Boston played 3 extra inning games in the playoffs last yr, they also had Arroyo knocked out in the 3rd inning of a game too. They used everyone including Pedro as a reliever.

 

Btw, their pen sans Foulke was horrid in the playoffs and that should've cost them(and almost did) but they had an O that could score against anyone. Since we don't have their O I sure as hell wouldn't want to emulate their pen.

[Frankensteiner]

The Red Sox also had Curt Schilling and Pedro Martinez.

 

I like Mark Buehrle and Freddy Garcia -- I like 'em a lot, but they're no Schilling/Pedro.

 

If you look at the stats, 2005 Buehrle/Garcia are having better seasons than Schilling/Pedro last year. And the Sox also have that Garland guy who leads MLB in wins.

[Frankensteiner]

I understand that.

 

I was just addressing the point brought up about not needing a deep 'pen in the playoffs, as the BoSox only used three relievers (is that true?  I could've sworn they used Lowe out of the 'pen at one point or another). 

 

No, they used more than 3 relievers but those were their primary ones. They had Wakefield, Arroyo, and Lowe all pitching out of the pen at various points.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Another quick note here, the Red Sox went throught the post-season primarily using only 3 relievers: Timlin/Foulke/Embree (Myers was used as a LOOGY a couple of times).

 

 

Boston played 3 extra inning games in the playoffs last yr, they also had Arroyo knocked out in the 3rd inning of a game too. They used everyone including Pedro as a reliever.

 

Btw, their pen sans Foulke was horrid in the playoffs and that should've cost them(and almost did) but they had an O that could score against anyone. Since we don't have their O I sure as hell wouldn't want to emulate their pen.

 

I think these two answered each other...

 

It doesn't look like we're getting a big bat for this team. The most we can hope for is a more useful super-utility guy. -- They're not going to change the complexion of the offense too much.

 

Since we can't match the offense that Boston had the last season -- And probably don't have the dominant arms in the rotation that Florida had two years ago -- Our best chance at this may be to emulate the 2002 Angels. -- Decent starting staff, lights out pen, good offense.

 

All of this assumes we make the playoffs, and that being said, our best way to the playoffs is to not subtract any of the key pieces from the current team. That includes Crede, Uribe, Count and El Duque. The best, and quite possibly most economical, area to upgrade are the bullpen and a utility guy. That may be just enough to carry us to the promised land.

 

And if it doesn't, the cupboard won't be too bare and the payroll won't be too bloated, for the Sox to reload for next season.

[Frankensteiner]

Boston played 3 extra inning games in the playoffs last yr, they also had Arroyo knocked out in the 3rd inning of a game too. They used everyone including Pedro as a reliever.

 

Btw, their pen sans Foulke was horrid in the playoffs and that should've cost them(and almost did) but they had an O that could score against anyone. Since we don't have their O I sure as hell wouldn't want to emulate their pen.

 

Well, our pen is already stronger than theirs. But the Red Sox were able to win last year because of the strength of their starting pitching (Schilling/Pedro/Lowe). So it goes to reason that we should focus more on starting pitching than on the bullpen.

[Frankensteiner]

Since we can't match the offense that Boston had the last season -- And probably don't have the dominant arms in the rotation that Florida had two years ago -- Our best chance at this may be to emulate the 2002 Angels. -- Decent starting staff, lights out pen, good offense.

 

But the Angels did have a great offense, and in fact they averaged 6.3 runs/game which is only slightly below the 6.4 runs/gm put up by Boston last year. I actually think we're closer to the Marlins, as we'll have to rely on dominant starting pitching and just enough timely hitting to win us games. All I'm saying is we'll benefit more by finding another good starter than having 5 closers with Buehrle/Garland/Garcia already on the staff.

 

How many relievers did the Marlins use besides Looper (who wasn't very good), Urbina, and Chad Fox? And who thinks Ozzie won't let the starters go deep into games?

[Chisoxfn]

But the Angels did have a great offense, and in fact they averaged 6.3 runs/game which is only slightly below the 6.4 runs/gm put up by Boston last year. I actually think we're closer to the Marlins, as we'll have to rely on dominant starting pitching and just enough timely hitting to win us games. All I'm saying is we'll benefit more by finding another good starter than having 5 closers with Buehrle/Garland/Garcia already on the staff.

 

How many relievers did the Marlins use besides Looper (who wasn't very good), Urbina, and Chad Fox? And who thinks Ozzie won't let the starters go deep into games?

It all depends, if you use 4 starters, than you better have a stronger bullpen. However, you go 3 starters than you take the risk of burning your rotation, but you probably can use less relievers cause you may get better starts (cause your using your aces more). Of course that could totally backfire.

 

Personally, for the most part I'd plan on using 4 starters, unless the rest matched up. I'm not a big fan of guys going on less rest cause more times than not, they aren't as effective.

 

I mean, the Angels go nowhere without their pen. There starting in the playoffs was awful and there pen had a few incidents, but they had some timely hitting and quite frankly a very lethal bullpen.

[Frankensteiner]

It all depends, if you use 4 starters, than you better have a stronger bullpen.  However, you go 3 starters than you take the risk of burning your rotation, but you probably can use less relievers cause you may get better starts (cause your using your aces more).  Of course that could totally backfire.

 

Personally, for the most part I'd plan on using 4 starters, unless the rest matched up.  I'm not a big fan of guys going on less rest cause more times than not, they aren't as effective.

 

I'm not advocating using only 3 starters. I just meant that with already having Garland/Garcia/Buehrle and the TBD fourth starter, whether one of the Cubans, or Burnett, or Schmidt (but since this is still up in the air somewhat, I just failed to list him), I think we will have starting pitchers that can pitch enough innings to the point where having 5 dominant bullpen relievers is useless. Sorry for not making that clear there.

[upnorthsox]

Well, our pen is already stronger than theirs. But the Red Sox were able to win last year because of the strength of their starting pitching (Schilling/Pedro/Lowe). So it goes to reason that we should focus more on starting pitching than on the bullpen.

 

Red Sox won because the Yanks had the all-time choke in post season history and because the Yankee BP was not the dominant lockdown BP of yrs past. Oh, and there was this guy named Ortiz who had a few things to say about it too.

[AddisonStSox]

Plain and simple: I have confidence in Kenny Williams.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Count me out on Burnett. I just don't think he is consistent enough to where his presence on this team adds anything to the post season. You might not like El Duque but he's era in the post season is nearly 2 full runs lower than his regular season. That's the kind of playoff experience contenders look for & it's way NY reporters continue to flirt with the idea of getting him back.

 

Schmidt on the other hand has proven to be one of the most consistent starters in the league over the years & has been dominating in his post season action (against Beckett no less).

 

The three series that will mean the most in the 2nd half are BOS, NYY, & LAA. One of those teams is likely to reach the ALCS. The WC is still a toss up but the only team in it to be feared is OAK.

 

With respect to the trade winds the 4 gm series vs BOS will probably be the deciding factor for KW. Matchups figure to be:

R - Buehrle, F - Garland, Sa - El Duque, Su - Contra

Needless to say both El Duque's & Contra's future with the White Sox

will be on the line.