CubKilla Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 dont forget a quality defesive catcher either thank you KW Hate to say I told you so..... but I know HSC and Baggs weren't thrilled by this trade either. If this was 2002, Botch wouldn't see the closers role until about August with JM at the helm after blowing one or two games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 The best guy in that trade will be Neal Cotts ... we could be looking at a big time stud. All that kid appears to know is how to pitch ... As for Valentine ... ok. But I'd trade a closer candidate for a left handed starter candidate any day of the week. By the by ... if Konerko had his head screwed on straight and wasn't so bunged up and tense at the plate ... how far do you think he would've drilled one of Foulkie's 90 mph fastballs? There was a reason Konerko went ballistic in the dugout last nite ... he had about 5 good pitches to hit. Konerko out-thought himself. I give Foulke credit but you watch, he's gonna get mashed quite a few times this year too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 he was having a fit in the dugout thats for sure.. throwing and kicking things... geez im so glad kw gave away joe valentine and foulke for this head case............wonderful............. Head case? I don't think I'd go that far. John Rocker -- that's a head case. Koch is just a fierce competitor who was upset at himself. And I'm sure it's an accumulation of anger that he let out at once. He's been bad for a month now -- it's time he kicks it into gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 dont forget a quality defesive catcher either thank you KW Hate to say I told you so..... but I know HSC and Baggs weren't thrilled by this trade either. If this was 2002, Botch wouldn't see the closers role until about August with JM at the helm after blowing one or two games. yeah i foregot about johnson.. better than paul .....your right killa i was not thrilled with this trade from the get go.. but when your not one of kw's boys you are gone.. and foulke can very well tell ya how that goes... as for valentine i liked that kid when i saw him pitch.. he has alot of potential.. and i think he would have done us good here... cotts seems to be the gem in the whole deal and the least costly.......freakin botch will cost us around 6 mil next year and we could have kept foulke for that much..........geez.........i vote marte to be closer ..get rid of baby botch............i dont condone fits in the dugout when you suck up the field with your own actions..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Head case? I don't think I'd go that far. John Rocker -- that's a head case. Koch is just a fierce competitor who was upset at himself. And I'm sure it's an accumulation of anger that he let out at once. He's been bad for a month now -- it's time he kicks it into gear. botch is a baby ... plain and simple.. nothing more than a big mouth attention seeker who cant back up his words with his actions............ :fyou him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 botch is a baby ... plain and simple.. nothing more than a big mouth attention seeker who cant back up his words with his actions............ :fyou him Soon you guys will kick me of the board of directors of the I hate Billy Botch fan club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 2, 2003 Author Share Posted May 2, 2003 He was definitely pissed being taken out. Fact is, he walked the #9 hitter to start the inning. A big no-no. Then, Durazo got a hit off him ... Chavez coming up, you've lost the first two games of the series and Chavez is hitting a buck fifty off left handers. Like Hawk said ... even if Chavez hits one on the concourse ... it's the right move to bring in Marte. I like the fact Koch was pissed. He should be ... at himself. Manuel didn't walk the leadoff hitter. as well said as anyone has tonight. now why did Koch tear up the dugout? Is he mad at himself? That would mean one thing. Is he mad at JM? Then that is another. Unless we know why he did what he did, it doesn't make help me to speculate either way because we just don't know. 4 batters, hit, walk, and two well hit balls to center - JM did the right thing. We needed to beat Oakland tonight, needed to. We have a road trip coming up where we were blown out last year. We needed to win tonight. And JM did what he could to make that happen. Koch walked the guy. Koch gave up the hit. I wish him well - but no need for him torage at anyone but himself, and no point in that unless it helps him get his game straightened around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 dont forget a quality defesive catcher either thank you KW Hate to say I told you so..... but I know HSC and Baggs weren't thrilled by this trade either. If this was 2002, Botch wouldn't see the closers role until about August with JM at the helm after blowing one or two games. But i dont know if that's the right move. Foulke lost his job and was spectacular the rest of the year and never got it back. He still deserves a chance to turn it around while in the closers role while it's early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Konerko had the same type of blow-up in the dugout last nite after popping out in the 9th. Personally, I like when they show emotion ... it shows they're real people, it shows they care. I don't see it as a major character flaw or anything. Heck, I get pissed watching the game on tv and holler a little ... and the dog goes running under the table. Stuff happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 2, 2003 Author Share Posted May 2, 2003 He still deserves a chance to turn it around while in the closers role while it's early. Of course he does. It is May 1st. Lots of time. But we needed to win tonight and Koch wasn't looking tonight like the man to do it. I wish he sets every save record in history this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Of course he does. It is May 1st. Lots of time. But we needed to win tonight and Koch wasn't looking tonight like the man to do it. I wish he sets every save record in history this year. Oh i agree with going to Marte tonight, don't get me wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 He was definitely pissed being taken out. Fact is, he walked the #9 hitter to start the inning. A big no-no. Then, Durazo got a hit off him ... Chavez coming up, you've lost the first two games of the series and Chavez is hitting a buck fifty off left handers. Like Hawk said ... even if Chavez hits one on the concourse ... it's the right move to bring in Marte. I like the fact Koch was pissed. He should be ... at himself. Manuel didn't walk the leadoff hitter. as well said as anyone has tonight. now why did Koch tear up the dugout? Is he mad at himself? That would mean one thing. Is he mad at JM? Then that is another. Unless we know why he did what he did, it doesn't make help me to speculate either way because we just don't know. 4 batters, hit, walk, and two well hit balls to center - JM did the right thing. We needed to beat Oakland tonight, needed to. We have a road trip coming up where we were blown out last year. We needed to win tonight. And JM did what he could to make that happen. Koch walked the guy. Koch gave up the hit. I wish him well - but no need for him torage at anyone but himself, and no point in that unless it helps him get his game straightened around. somebody from WSI who was at the game said koch yelled 'f*** off' to manuel when he came out of the dugout...its 2nd hand so take that into account.. one thing that did bother me was he was still pounting and made in the dugout after marte got the save...maybe im naive but i would have loved it if koch was the first one out of the dugout to congradulate damaso... i remember the 6-0 lead against texas in '00 where foulke gave up 5 runs and howry had to come in and get the last 2 outs...first one out of the dugout...kieth foulke...i would have loved to to seen billy do the same thing...the idea is to get the W..not get koch the save Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 2, 2003 Author Share Posted May 2, 2003 somebody from WSI who was at the game said koch yelled 'f*** off' to manuel when he came out of the dugout...its 2nd hand so take that into account.. one thing that did bother me was he was still pounting and made in the dugout after marte got the save...maybe im naive but i would have loved it if koch was the first one out of the dugout to congradulate damaso... i remember the 6-0 lead against texas in '00 where foulke gave up 5 runs and howry had to come in and get the last 2 outs...first one out of the dugout...kieth foulke...i would have loved to to seen billy do the same thing...the idea is to get the W..not get koch the save you supply new info, my brother, and I agree with you completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 That's called not being a team player, and it's a load of crap we can't afford to have on this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 one thing that did bother me was he was still pounting and made in the dugout after marte got the save...maybe im naive but i would have loved it if koch was the first one out of the dugout to congradulate damaso... i remember the 6-0 lead against texas in '00 where foulke gave up 5 runs and howry had to come in and get the last 2 outs...first one out of the dugout...kieth foulke...i would have loved to to seen billy do the same thing...the idea is to get the W..not get koch the save Posts like this are why Baggs is the man, he is amaising at relating these observations, like this, I am not worthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 one thing that did bother me was he was still pounting and made in the dugout after marte got the save...maybe im naive but i would have loved it if koch was the first one out of the dugout to congradulate damaso... i remember the 6-0 lead against texas in '00 where foulke gave up 5 runs and howry had to come in and get the last 2 outs...first one out of the dugout...kieth foulke...i would have loved to to seen billy do the same thing...the idea is to get the W..not get koch the save Posts like this are why Baggs is the man, he is amaising at relating these observations, like this, I am not worthy. thanks guys hey matt..your the guy that warned me about koch...gopt me researching him..got me hating KW even more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 hey matt..your the guy that warned me about koch...gopt me researching him..got me hating KW even more I don't know how you remember things about specific games and players, but you've done that a few times lately(I tried scouring for a few but got lazy) anyways I don't know how you do it but keep on it 'cause paying to littles things like that will make me a better baseball fan and teacher I hope. I am dissapointed I didn't see the game 'cause I would have like to have seen the fly ball outs for sure. Any clue haw fast Billy was throwing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 well..hawk said he got up to 97 on one pitch but he didnt look any faster then he has been....the gun tonight also had kelly wunsch throwing 87 and ive never seen him above 84 so i dont what to think about the gun... no matter how hard he was throwing..the swings against hime were the same as thay have been all year..batters digging in...just thank god durazo didnt get any lift on the single to lf..he smoked it on a line...the two outs were real deep...one into cf just in front of the track..the other a towering shot into the gap that rowand caught on the run in about the middle of the warning track... nobody right now is showing any fear of facing koch..they cant get from the on deck circle to the batters box fast enough..im sure chavez was heart broken marte got the call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Baggs is right about one thing... We sure needed this win. And to blow a 2 run lead in the 9th and go on to lose it would have been very difficult for this team to overcome. I know Koch refused to answer questions about what happened tonight and said he would talk to the media tomorrow. At least that showed a little intelligence on his part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 The gun at the cell at the start of the year didn't make sence as it was way too low, now it's up too high, who knows? I'm glad Koch took time to cool off before speaking, he knows things are s*** right now(I warned he wasn't nearly as good as advertised, but he's better than this). I would like to like him since he will be with us for a while and he is one of the few players who gives a crap about winning it seems, I'm just not convinced he's gonna put us in the best position to do that right now and he likely needs to understand that too. Even when Keith Foulke was blowing games his worst there were some singles in the hole, some walks ect. Koch has been Big Doubles followed by bigger home runs, followed by.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 stayed that way till the 9th...gordon pitch 2 2/3, 1 hit no walks 4 k's kock came in gave up a walk , two fly outs to the warning track ..then a single...marte came in and got chavez to ground out 4-3 for the save Jason said Gordon has had lively stuff, it just wasn't showing up in the box score yet. Looks like you might be right Jas. If marte and Gordon can pull their weight then Koch being a dud won't be a crippling blow. If Koch returns to form and those two guys keep it up I really like our chances. The season is early. The Sox were sluggish in 59 and 83 before they hit their stride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Manuel made the right move taking Koch out and sending Marte in. You always hear stuff from managers after their big stud loses the game like, "You gotta stay with your ace," "or he's my closer and you have to have confidence." I have never understood that because even the greatest struggle and if they are a manager needs to see that and make the move to ensure a win. Manuel showed me he is thinking and recognizes the need to make the move. Koch has always been called an erratic pitcher as far as control issues. To a manager or fan he is a heart attack waiting to happen. But he is a competitor who has fire. He also can throw 100 MPH. He needs help to harness that and claim his stopper role. Let's hope he is doing that and gets back on top. After all, we signed him for two years at good money and management didn't want to give Foulke the dollars to stay longer. It was hard for me to accept because I think Foulke was great, but Billy is here and that's who we have in the closers role. I want him to be number one and I see in his actions he wants to be too. Now he just has to put it back together. In the meantime Gordon and Marte have stepped up to fill in till BK is mechanically and/or physically sound, whichever it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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