SoxFan1 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 QUOTE(ScottPodRulez22 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 12:35 AM) and i was also saying the you cant compare a 21 year old to a 35 year old Contreras probably loses confidence quicker than BMac though. Contreras is such a headcase it is sickening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 19, 2005 -> 11:36 PM) Exactly. DBAHO, I think you and I are on the same page with all of this. Again, in no way am I saying his career is over before it really ever started. Atleast you have the ability to reason unlike some people who are just stubborn as hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 02:35 PM) So you're saying it was a fluke? You could say that, it's just proves he wasn't ready to pitch in the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 12:37 AM) Says who. I know a lot of 35 year olds that had the maturity of a nickle. Wow, I really needed that laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:36 AM) I'm not going to lie and say it's an easy thing to do but you have to, that's the only way young players are going to learn and get better. Hell, look at Jenks, I love what they're doing with him, he might take a few lumps this year but this learning experience will give him a shot to be a key cog to next years club and he's got a shot to be an absolutely dominate reliever, he's special and you can't give up on him if he gets wild this year or gets hit a bit this year, cause those things probably will happen, doesn't mean he won't be a great reliever some day cause he's got a great shot to be one. One of my favorite things to occur this season was that we kept Jenks on the roster, and let Shingo go. It would have been so easy for KW to just send down Jenks, and keep the obviously washed-up Shingo. That move took a lot of balls by KW and Ozzie, and I'm thrilled with the decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:37 AM) Atleast you have the ability to reason unlike some people who are just stubborn as hell. I might be Mr. Negative, but I know my baseball, and McCarthy isn't a cant-miss prospect like he was being billed by some. Thus, since he's not a guaranteed superstar, if you can parlay him into a difference maker for the franchise, you take your chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 12:37 AM) Atleast you have the ability to reason unlike some people who are just stubborn as hell. Since you are obviously talking about the one and only, I will reiterate, for the 29,385th time, I am not giving up on BMac. I still feel he can have a great career and hopefully for the Sox. I just think that his value is high, Contreras is a toss up every time, and Shingo has been figured out. This is the year. Not 2006. Not 2007. Not when BMac is ready. Schmidt will help us iimmensiley this year. BMac, not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 19, 2005 -> 11:38 PM) One of my favorite things to occur this season was that we kept Jenks on the roster, and let Shingo go. It would have been so easy for KW to just send down Jenks, and keep the obviously washed-up Shingo. That move took a lot of balls by KW and Ozzie, and I'm thrilled with the decision. Did you just compliment KW and Ozzie? What's the world comming to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 12:39 AM) I might be Mr. Negative, but I know my baseball, and McCarthy isn't a cant-miss prospect like he was being billed by some. Thus, since he's not a guaranteed superstar, if you can parlay him into a difference maker for the franchise, you take your chances. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 02:36 PM) Exactly. DBAHO, I think you and I are on the same page with all of this. Again, in no way am I saying his career is over before it really ever started. Very much so, because there's a lot of factors to consider. This time next season, if he's still in Charlotte and getting hammered, then we can be entitled to start getting a bit anxious, but I don't think that'll be the case. Realistically, he should be in this starting rotation by the start of the 2007 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 02:38 PM) One of my favorite things to occur this season was that we kept Jenks on the roster, and let Shingo go. It would have been so easy for KW to just send down Jenks, and keep the obviously washed-up Shingo. That move took a lot of balls by KW and Ozzie, and I'm thrilled with the decision. It also means that he can develop, and that we probably won't have to sign a closer off the FA market again for quite a while if all goes well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 12:41 AM) Very much so, because there's a lot of factors to consider. This time next season, if he's still in Charlotte and getting hammered, then we can be entitled to start getting a bit anxious, but I don't think that'll be the case. Realistically, he should be in this starting rotation by the start of the 2007 season. As I said earlier, THIS is the year. No better time than now. We still do not know if he will pan out. We still dont know if we will win the division or not. We still dont know if we can go far in thew playoffs. Nothing is certain. IMO, I think it is a better deal to go for it this year with the assistance of Schmidt and not wait for BMac to pan out, good or bad. This is the year. Not 2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Jose Contreras [ 8 ] [32.00%] Jason Schmidt [ 17 ] [68.00%] Just thought I'd post that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 20, 2005 Author Share Posted July 20, 2005 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 19, 2005 -> 10:42 PM) It also means that he can develop, and that we probably won't have to sign a closer off the FA market again for quite a while if all goes well. I've said this before but having Bobby, Damaso, Neal, Hermy, Cliff, and now im even happy to have viz back for next year just makes me extremely thrilled, the bullpen is in fantastic shape for this year and next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 12:45 AM) I've said this before but having Bobby, Damaso, Neal, Hermy, Cliff, and now im even happy to have viz back for next year just makes me extremely thrilled, the bullpen is in fantastic shape for this year and next. Boy would it be great with a Guardado mixed in there though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHAFTR Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I still think Schmidt, Burnett, Perez or Lilly are better options than Contreras. What we saw tonight was vintage Jose. He strikes out 4 of the first 5 battes he faces. After that he gives up a 3 run homer. He proceeds to retire the next 12 batters he faces. After that he gives up, essentially, 5 straight doubles. Contreras is a fine pitcher when there is little pressure on him. As soon as the pressure is increased and he has to work from the stretch, he flounders. His whole career has matched this pattern. There is no way I feel confident with him as a starter in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHAFTR Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 19, 2005 -> 11:45 PM) I've said this before but having Bobby, Damaso, Neal, Hermy, Cliff, and now im even happy to have viz back for next year just makes me extremely thrilled, the bullpen is in fantastic shape for this year and next. Isn't Pollite a FA at the end of the year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 02:46 PM) Boy would it be great with a Guardado mixed in there though. Not if his rotator cuff gives up though. I'd prefer Miguel Batista myself although I know a lot of people are probably going to disagree with me on that. Of course Guardado has something like a $7 million option for next season as well, and KW and Ozzie will have to decide whether or not he's a set-up guy or closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 19, 2005 -> 08:56 PM) Since there are a lot of people in the game thread b****ing about him I'd thought I'd start this thread. Yes, he didn't pitch a good game tonight but he threw strikes. Jose today was getting ahead of hitters for the most part and he just got beat by Detroits hitters. He got hit hard today but he didn't beat himself. You will rarely see Jose give up a lot of runs when he's throwing strikes, this is probably the first game all year when he's pitched bad that the opposition beat him and he didn't beat himself. Basically what I'm trying to say is I'm not worried about this outing but rather kind of encouraged, this is two straight outings where he's had great control, if he throws strikes like he has the past two games he'll be a very good starting pitcher for us the rest of the year. Just wanted to get that out in the open and see how everyone else feels or I should say everyone who hasn't given up on JC yet. I strongly agree. Detroit just beat him tonight. He was K'ing guys and getting ahead in the count. Despite getting roughed up, I'd say it was a good outing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I gotta admit, this is probably one of the best argument's I have ever seen at SoxTalk. So many valid points and all is moot because Schmidt will not be traded to the Sox. Sorry for using up bandwith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 QUOTE(SHAFTR @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 02:48 PM) Isn't Pollite a FA at the end of the year? No they re-worked his deal in the last off-season, so he's got a team option for next season IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 19, 2005 -> 11:49 PM) No they re-worked his deal in the last off-season, so he's got a team option for next season IIRC. You got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 02:51 PM) You got it. And it was cheaper than his last deal as well. Definitely a great move by KW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jul 19, 2005 -> 10:49 PM) I strongly agree. Detroit just beat him tonight. He was K'ing guys and getting ahead in the count. Despite getting roughed up, I'd say it was a good outing. God we are lowering the bar on what a good outing is. 5.2 innings, 94 pitches, 8 hits 7 runs 4ks. I am sure Felix Diaz gave us similiar numbers last year in the same situation. We will see what the Count is made of by the weekend. Hopefully he brings his fastball and his manhood and challenges the hitters. If he gives up another 4 to 5 inning 7+ earned run affair, maybe we can find another silver lining. He kept the Ortiz bomb off the concourse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 He isn't pitching on Sunday is he? If so, my head will EXPLODE at the ballpark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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