Contreras

[Rowand44]

I'll just say this, for all the people who say he's fine and a good number 4 starter, fine.  Playoff winning teams do not have "number 4" starters.  If he's still in the rotation come October, this team won't win anything.  It's all about the ring, beating out Minnesota isn't enough IMO.

Name a team in baseball with a better number 4 starter??? You might be able to think of a few, maybe.

[JohnStamos]

A little contradictory, no?

 

No...you would have to be an idiot to not want Jason Schmidt on your team over Count or El Duque. But at his asking price, the move would cost a great deal for what could amount to simply a minimal upgrade.

[SoxFan1]

No...you would have to be an idiot to not want Jason Schmidt on your team over Count or El Duque.  But at his asking price, the move would cost a great deal for what could amount to simply a minimal upgrade.

Shingo will be gone anyway, BMAc has amounted to nothing yet. I;m not giving up on him but all we have really seen from him is 1 1/2 good starts and an excellent ST. Come on, he's been getting knocked around in the minors. And Count, well, he is the topping on the cake for SF. They want 2 ML pitchers, take Count and Shingo.

[Milkman delivers]

Name a team in baseball with a better number 4 starter???  You might be able to think of a few, maybe.

 

Well, you'd always want there to be zero better in baseball. Every single piece counts (which you know, I'm not trying to be a smartass or anything), and I believe that Schmidt would make our rotation better. The best possible scenario, IMO, is to keep Contreras and lose Duque for Contreras.

[Spod=Ratings]

well atleast the walks weren't a problem

[Rowand44]

Well, you'd always want there to be zero better in baseball.  Every single piece counts (which you know, I'm not trying to be a smartass or anything), and I believe that Schmidt would make our rotation better.  The best possible scenario, IMO, is to keep Contreras and lose Duque for Contreras.

I've been pro schmidt since I saw him pitch a few weeks ago, however giving up Contreras isn't a very good idea and someone please answer my question honestly there may be 1 or better number 4 starters in baseball at this point but to tell you the truth I don't know if I'd take any teams 4th starter over the Count.

[DBAHO]

Shingo will be gone anyway, BMAc has amounted to nothing yet. I;m not giving up on him but all we have really seen from him is 1 1/2 good starts and an excellent ST. Come on, he's been getting knocked around in the minors. And Count, well, he is the topping on the cake for SF. They want 2 ML pitchers, take Count and Shingo.

So because B-Mac's amounted to nothing yet, he's automatically tradeable? FWIW McCarthy's last start he only gave up 2 ER in 6IP, and the game was at Charlotte where he has been struggling. It's pretty much giving up 3 major league pitchers for 1, because Brandon McCarthy WOULD be a starter on some teams in the majors.

[SoxFan1]

So because B-Mac's amounted to nothing yet, he's automatically tradeable? FWIW McCarthy's last start he only gave up 2 ER in 6IP, and the game was at Charlotte where he has been struggling. It's pretty much giving up 3 major league pitchers for 1, because Brandon McCarthy WOULD be a starter on some teams in the majors.

Like I said, I am not giving up on him. But, he got his chance, in 3 different places and has only been successful when it doesn't count at all, Spring Training. Trade when the value is high.

[JohnStamos]

Shingo will be gone anyway, BMAc has amounted to nothing yet. I;m not giving up on him but all we have really seen from him is 1 1/2 good starts and an excellent ST. Come on, he's been getting knocked around in the minors. And Count, well, he is the topping on the cake for SF. They want 2 ML pitchers, take Count and Shingo.

 

 

McCarthey has struggled, but he was rushed into a situation where he was not ready enough to succeed in. I have no doubt that he will amount to a good MLB pitcher in a couple years. I really don't think we should give up someone who has his whole future for someone who had been great but is now somewhat questionable. If this moved guarenteed us a good showing in the playoffs I'd do it, but I really think Schimdt is not the answer and that there is no surefire answer in this year's trading market.

[Kalapse]

Like I said, I am not giving up on him. But, he got his chance, in 3 different places and has only been successful when it doesn't count at all, Spring Training. Trade when the value is high.

McCarthy is 21 years old and was in A ball last year. I still think he should be in B-Ham right now. He needs to be in the minors for the nex year maybe 2. He was rushed along because of 2 great years in the minors and an amazing spring training.

 

You're making yourself look like an ass right now.

[DBAHO]

Like I said, I am not giving up on him. But, he got his chance, in 3 different places and has only been successful when it doesn't count at all, Spring Training. Trade when the value is high.

He had success pitching away from the Cell, like I said teams like the Devil Rays, Tigers etc. would love to have him in their rotation right now. How can his value be higher now than at the start of the season? It just sounds like he's a throw - in in this proposed Schmidt deal, and he's worth a lot more than that.

[Rowand44]

Like I said, I am not giving up on him. But, he got his chance, in 3 different places and has only been successful when it doesn't count at all, Spring Training. Trade when the value is high.

He's had 5 starts in the bigs, 2 very good one's and 3 bad one's. He's shown flashed of how good he can be and he can be very, very good. From a 21 year old pitcher who has his kind of potential and who flew through the system like he did you should expect exactly what we got out of him.

[Milkman delivers]

I've been pro schmidt since I saw him pitch a few weeks ago, however giving up Contreras isn't a very good idea and someone please answer my question honestly there may be 1 or better number 4 starters in baseball at this point but to tell you the truth I don't know if I'd take any teams 4th starter over the Count.

 

I really don't even know who most teams' 4th starters are. I can probably think of most teams' rotations, but wouldn't be able to number them correctly.

 

Either way, even though Contreras hasn't been exactly bad, we can still improve. I'm terrified of becoming the next team that does great during the year, but makes an early exit in the playoffs. I won't even know what to do if that happens.

[SoxFan1]

McCarthey has struggled, but he was rushed into a situation where he was not ready enough to succeed in.  I have no doubt that he will amount to a good MLB pitcher in a couple years.  I really don't think we should give up someone who has his whole future for someone who had been great but is now somewhat questionable.  If this moved guarenteed us a good showing in the playoffs I'd do it, but I really think Schimdt is not the answer and that there is no surefire answer in this year's trading market.

Look at last year's Freddy Garcia trade. We were all screaming about how Olivo/Morse/Reed was such a steep price and how Reed would be an All-Star type player and that Olivo will be a great catcher. Look how it turned out. Olivo got sent down. Reed has been good but not great. Morse has been hitting well I guess but to no success rate to the team.

[DBAHO]

McCarthy is 21 years old and was in A ball last year. I still think he should be in B-Ham right now. He needs to be in the minors for the nex year maybe 2. He was rushed along because of 2 great years in the minors and an amazing spring training.

 

You're making yourself look like an ass right now.

Because of the likes of Dontrelle Willis and Mark Prior, every SP prospect that gets called up now is automatically expected to perform on the MLB level and that's unfair (especially if they're not ready). This time last year he was pitching for the Winston - Salem Warthogs. Now people want to trade him because he didn't pitch well in the majors.

[fathom]

So because B-Mac's amounted to nothing yet, he's automatically tradeable? FWIW McCarthy's last start he only gave up 2 ER in 6IP, and the game was at Charlotte where he has been struggling. It's pretty much giving up 3 major league pitchers for 1, because Brandon McCarthy WOULD be a starter on some teams in the majors.

 

If we'd be able to get Schmidt for Contreras, McCarthy, and Shingo, I'd do that deal without a doubt. First, Shingo is done with. As I said at the beginning of the season, Japanese pitchers lose their stuff quickly as they get older because of the insane amount of pitches they throw in their early 20s. Next, if it's between having Schmidt for this year, as well as picking up his 10.5 mil option for next year, I'd rather have him than Contreras and his 8 mil contract next season. The healthier Schmidt gets, the better he'll be. Schmidt has been a stud pitcher the last few years, and he's much more likely to have a consistent season from start to finish than Contreras. As for McCarthy.....I've seen nothing that would suggest to me he'll even be anything more than a number 4 starter. McCarthy wasn't a huge prospect before the end of last season, and his status was completely overblown in ST. His stock will never be higher than it is right now.

 

Of course, I'd rather trade McCarthy in a package with Sweeney and another player in order to get Lidge.

[DBAHO]

Look at last year's Freddy Garcia trade. We were all screaming about how Olivo/Morse/Reed was such a steep price and how Reed would be an All-Star type player and that Olivo will be a great catcher. Look how it turned out. Olivo got sent down. Reed has been good but not great. Morse has been hitting well I guess but to no success rate to the team.

Olivo is back with the M's, and they won't trade him because of his arm and defense. Reed is in his 1st full season in the majors, and yes Morse has been hitting well and it's hard to say no success rate to the team when it's not like Seattle's any good anyway.

[SoxFan1]

Because of the likes of Dontrelle Willis and Mark Prior, every SP prospect that gets called up now is automatically expected to perform on the MLB level and that's unfair (especially if they're not ready). This time last year he was pitching for the Winston - Salem Warthogs. Now people want to trade him because he didn't pitch well in the majors.

So what the f*** happened? He was AMAZING in Spring Training. I still remember the game he had against the Rangers with 8 of their 9 starters in the lineup and he shut them down. What happened? In Hawk's words: "Don't tell me what he's done. Tell me when he's done it."

[Kalapse]

Because of the likes of Dontrelle Willis and Mark Prior, every SP prospect that gets called up now is automatically expected to perform on the MLB level and that's unfair (especially if they're not ready). This time last year he was pitching for the Winston - Salem Warthogs. Now people want to trade him because he didn't pitch well in the majors.

It's sad really.

[Kalapse]

So what the f*** happened? He was AMAZING in Spring Training. I still remember the game he had against the Rangers with 8 of their 9 starters in the lineup and he shut them down. What happened? In Hawk's words: "Don't tell me what he's done. Tell me when he's done it."

IT WAS SPRING f***ING TRAINING.

[SoxFan1]

Olivo is back with the M's, and they won't trade him because of his arm and defense. Reed is in his 1st full season in the majors, and yes Morse has been hitting well and it's hard to say no success rate to the team when it's not like Seattle's any good anyway.

EXACTLY! He has done nothing to help them. They still suck.

[3E8]

If you want to trade Count it will have to be after one or two starts in a row of pitching like he did the start before this. Can you handle that?

[SoxFan1]

IT WAS SPRING f***ING TRAINING.

EXACTLY! No f***ing pressure and he strived. Then, he blew ass in he minors and blew ass in the bigs. It was still the whole damn Rangers line up!

[DBAHO]

As for McCarthy.....I've seen nothing that would suggest to me he'll even be anything more than a number 4 starter.  McCarthy wasn't a huge prospect before the end of last season, and his status was completely overblown in ST.  His stock will never be higher than it is right now. 

 

Of course, I'd rather trade McCarthy in a package with Sweeney and another player in order to get Lidge.

McCarthy would have been in the top 15-20 prospects of baseball at the end of last season, and he had the most K's in all of the minors last season IIRC. How can his stock be higher now than at the end of ST?

[JohnStamos]

Look at last year's Freddy Garcia trade. We were all screaming about how Olivo/Morse/Reed was such a steep price and how Reed would be an All-Star type player and that Olivo will be a great catcher. Look how it turned out. Olivo got sent down. Reed has been good but not great. Morse has been hitting well I guess but to no success rate to the team.

 

I'm not one to compare trades normally, but the White Sox were desperate to find a starter at that point. There is no desperation here...we are 13 games ahead and still have one of the best number 4 starters in the league. Freddy also was having a good year to that point unlike Schmidt. Also, every player that we sent to Seattle is still relatively young and Reed could be an all-star in the next couple years very easily.