daa84 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 21, 2005 -> 08:57 AM) I agree, but what we as fans forget is this is a business. And as a business they still want to maximize their investment. Hence why they want to get 5-6 innings from Conteras which should come out to about 120-130 pitches haha true, but the way i feel is that the investment is already made, and the best way to maximize the investment isn't in terms of number of pitches, but rather in terms of # of Wins, in which case if teh team is best suited with someone else starting for cheaper, and contreras in the pen, then so be it. i do understand at the same time that the team might want to deal contreras's 6 mil. if he is simply gonna be long relief, cuz in reality, we can have adkins do a slightly worse job for 1/10th the dinero. so i can understand wanting to trade him, instead of putting him in that role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 QUOTE(DABearSoX @ Jul 21, 2005 -> 08:55 AM) I still just don't see why they would want Jose.....They don't want McCarthy......just seems strange to me that they would replace AJ with Jose...maybe they are thinking the mass cuban population will help Jose....they are very close to the same pitcher and Jose is a lot older....... i just don't know Up to this point the Marlins have made it clear they still feel they are in the playoff hunt, and only want to do this trade if they can get major league ready players to help them this year. McCarthy is not what they are looking for at this point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 21, 2005 -> 02:49 PM) i dont like the arguement that a players role should be determined by how much money they are paying him. it doesnt matter fi he makes 6 mil., he will make 6 mil if he starts, closes, hits, hands out gatorade in the dugout. put him where he gives you the best chance to win (im not necessarily sayin thats the bullpen btw), and dont let the players money dictate his role on teh team, let his capabilities. I agree with this, but I don't think its Jose's salary that would keep him from closing. The fact that he doesn't throw strikes and walks a lot of guys probably has a lot to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 I'd take Burnett, but I'd much rather have Schmidt. The latter has had much more success. And I'd rather replace El Duque instead of Contreras, but eh. I'll just trust what KW does, as long as that isn't standing pat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABearSoX Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ Jul 21, 2005 -> 03:02 PM) Up to this point the Marlins have made it clear they still feel they are in the playoff hunt, and only want to do this trade if they can get major league ready players to help them this year. McCarthy is not what they are looking for at this point Still doesnt make any sense.....I guess it might be because they don't think they would be signing AJ to an extention.......but Why do we all think AJ will help us over Jose, and they think Jose will help them more over AJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Jul 21, 2005 -> 01:59 PM) Loooooooots of speculating here. First of all, 50-50 chance we even get Burnett. Secondly, let's be careful in what we expect from him if we do land him. He'd certainly help, but he's just the best of what's available right now. Let's keep it in perspective. Exactly my thoughts. He has better stuff than Kris Benson, but that's kind of what this reminds me of. And as for picking up some of Contreras' contract, wouldn't we just be handing some of the money that we got from the Yankees to the Marlins, if this trade happens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 21, 2005 -> 10:06 AM) I'd take Burnett, but I'd much rather have Schmidt. The latter has had much more success. And I'd rather replace El Duque instead of Contreras, but eh. I'll just trust what KW does, as long as that isn't standing pat. Fact is, I want the pitcher who will give me the most quality starts. Thats it. I want the most chance to win. I think Schmidt is the guy, but in all honesty, I think we need a bat too, and maybe lowell will do that? i dont know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 What do you guys think about the possibility of Shingo going to Florida? How many days left before he is released? I could see Florida interested in Shingo, considering most of the National League has not seen him yet. Thoughts? CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Duque and Contreras worry me, ide really like us to add a starter here before the deadline... We definatly need one, and also a bat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 If we were to trade for Burnett, we don't necessarily need to resign him. Say, for example, a deal sent Contreras + Shingo + Sweeney (hypothetical) for Burnett. We now have the six million off the books for next year. Next, the Sox could just offer Burnett arbitration. I assume he'd be a Type A Free Agent, meaning two compensation picks, which would go a long way to replenishing top talent in the farm system. And, if Burnett happens to accept the offered arbitration, then that's fine too -- you still have your five SP's with Buehrle/Garcia/Garland/Burnett/Hernandez, with (hopefully) a more ready Brandon McCarthy battling for the last spot with Hernandez. I've warmed up a little bit on Burnett, so long as the only one going from our major league roster is Contreras (and if they want Harris or Timo, that's fine too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 21, 2005 -> 01:10 PM) If we were to trade for Burnett, we don't necessarily need to resign him. Say, for example, a deal sent Contreras + Shingo + Sweeney (hypothetical) for Burnett. We now have the six million off the books for next year. Next, the Sox could just offer Burnett arbitration. I assume he'd be a Type A Free Agent, meaning two compensation picks, which would go a long way to replenishing top talent in the farm system. And, if Burnett happens to accept the offered arbitration, then that's fine too -- you still have your five SP's with Buehrle/Garcia/Garland/Burnett/Hernandez, with (hopefully) a more ready Brandon McCarthy battling for the last spot with Hernandez. I've warmed up a little bit on Burnett, so long as the only one going from our major league roster is Contreras (and if they want Harris or Timo, that's fine too). Great thoughts!!!! I didnt even think about the picks. We can throw in Timo for a massage table and call it a done deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Take it for what its worth, but on one of the recent scoreboard updates on WSCR, George Offman said that we are very much in the running again for A.J. Burnett. The big hangup with us is that, to no surprise, we want absolutely nothing to do with Mike Lowell and his fat ass contract. Once again, this is George Offman reporting this. Not sure what to believe anymore. If this has already been mentioned, then just ignore this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHAFTR Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Call me crazy, but I would'nt mind taking Lowell in the deal. All signs point to this being a fluke year. His #s this month are decent. I like that he can play 3rd to keep Crede healthy. Also, if he can move to first next year, he could replace Konerko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Take it for what its worth, but on one of the recent scoreboard updates on WSCR, George Offman said that we are very much in the running again for A.J. Burnett. The big hangup with us is that, to no surprise, we want absolutely nothing to do with Mike Lowell and his fat ass contract. Once again, this is George Offman reporting this. Not sure what to believe anymore. If this has already been mentioned, then just ignore this post. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not surprising. Florida, it appears, cannot get the specific deal they want. Frankly I expect this to drag on for a few more days, I sense a bluff game is going on between the Marlins and the other teams wanting Burnett. It always heats up the last few days before the deadline, remember the Contreras-Loiaza thing came together the last few minutes, just under the wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 21, 2005 -> 01:25 PM) Not surprising. Florida, it appears, cannot get the specific deal they want. Frankly I expect this to drag on for a few more days, I sense a bluff game is going on between the Marlins and the other teams wanting Burnett. It always heats up the last few days before the deadline, remember the Contreras-Loiaza thing came together the last few minutes, just under the wire. Kenny's holding his hand right now, he knows what he's willing to give up and it appears the Marlins are about to get desperate and if that happens I wouldn't be surprised at all if AJ winds up on the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 21, 2005 -> 01:25 PM) Not surprising. Florida, it appears, cannot get the specific deal they want. Frankly I expect this to drag on for a few more days, I sense a bluff game is going on between the Marlins and the other teams wanting Burnett. It always heats up the last few days before the deadline, remember the Contreras-Loiaza thing came together the last few minutes, just under the wire. I think we don't his contract, more than him. KW probably wants Florida to pick up a hefty chunk of that contract for the remainder of it's term, not just this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 21, 2005 -> 02:27 PM) Kenny's holding his hand right now, he knows what he's willing to give up and it appears the Marlins are about to get desperate and if that happens I wouldn't be surprised at all if AJ winds up on the Sox. Exactly. He isn't in a position where he needs to "overpay" like many said he did last year for Garcia. If someone else wants to offer them more fine, if not and the price comes back, fine. Either way the Sox are in the drivers seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 I think we don't his contract, more than him. KW probably wants Florida to pick up a hefty chunk of that contract for the remainder of it's term, not just this year. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, I agree. The $$ is almost always an issue with these trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 QUOTE(SHAFTR @ Jul 21, 2005 -> 07:24 PM) Call me crazy, but I would'nt mind taking Lowell in the deal. All signs point to this being a fluke year. His #s this month are decent. I like that he can play 3rd to keep Crede healthy. Also, if he can move to first next year, he could replace Konerko. I wouldn't mind Lowell if I was able to take some sollice (sp?) in knowing that he'd regress somewhat to his career numbers, but man -- .230/.281/.351, that's just pathetic. And like you said, his career numbers are good -- last three seasons, he's posted OPS+' of 116, 132, and 127 -- that's awesome. But, he's on the wrong side of 30, and is still owed over $20 million. I can't see the Sox committing themselves to that kind of money... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHAFTR Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 21, 2005 -> 02:34 PM) I wouldn't mind Lowell if I was able to take some sollice (sp?) in knowing that he'd regress somewhat to his career numbers, but man -- .230/.281/.351, that's just pathetic. And like you said, his career numbers are good -- last three seasons, he's posted OPS+' of 116, 132, and 127 -- that's awesome. But, he's on the wrong side of 30, and is still owed over $20 million. I can't see the Sox committing themselves to that kind of money... It's a risk, yes. It's not a risk for this year though. It gives us a back up 3b/1b who can spell Konerko or Crede 3 times a week. It also allows us to land Burnett. Now, if Lowell's #s return and he is our new 1b next year, the deal works out great. If he continues to slump, then it doesn't work out. Thing is, IF we go all the way this year, it won't really matter that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHAFTR Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 also, Lowell's K #s aren't high this year. I think he is on pace for a career low. The balls he hit just aren't finding the gaps. It makes me think it's a fluke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 21, 2005 -> 07:30 PM) Yes, I agree. The $$ is almost always an issue with these trades. I've been very vocal about not giving up too much for Burnett, mostly cause I don't think he's that good. When I say he isn't that good, I mean he's not a guy who you'd give up what you'd trade for a front line starter. If the price comes down, I'm all for picking him up. He'd look nice in the back of the rotation. Like others have said, I suspect that Kenny is playing this the way he should. We are far from desperate, and if we are patient, we can possibly get him at a decent price. If we lose out on him because a team like Baltimore desperately throws everything and the kitchen sink to Florida, I'll be fine with that. Burnett certainly isn't worth a bidding war, at least in our position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 I still think Jason Schmidt is a better option. But picking up AJ and Lowell would benefit us in so many different ways. We would have a stronger rotation, and would have a better bench as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 21, 2005 -> 03:06 PM) I still think Jason Schmidt is a better option. But picking up AJ and Lowell would benefit us in so many different ways. We would have a stronger rotation, and would have a better bench as well. With the big asssumption being that either Crede or Lowell could adjust to being a bench player, and that AJ pitches better than the combination of both Marte and Contreras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHAFTR Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jul 21, 2005 -> 03:08 PM) With the big asssumption being that either Crede or Lowell could adjust to being a bench player, and that AJ pitches better than the combination of both Marte and Contreras. I wouldn't make the move if they wanted Marte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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