NYC Random Bag Search

[Texsox]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/21/nyregion...agewanted=print

 

In New Security Move, New York Police to Search Commuters' Bags

By TIMOTHY WILLIAMS and SEWELL CHAN

 

New York City will begin making random checks of bags and backpacks at subway stations, commuter railways and on buses, officials announced today in the wake of a second wave of bombings on the London transit system. The checks will begin on Friday morning.

 

The announcement by Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly represents a significant ratcheting up of antiterrorism security in the city. Previous efforts have been limited in order to avoid causing delays in a city known for the hustle and impatience of its denizens.

 

Officials said the city has never before attempted to regulate the possessions of passengers in its sprawling, complex transit system. The city's subway system alone has 468 stations and carries some 4.5 million passengers on an average weekday. Some of the larger stations have at least half a dozen entrances and exits. In New York City, relatively few people own cars, and the majority of those who commute via subway carry a bag of some sort filled with items needed for the entire day, including computers, business documents, gym clothes and makeup. Many people carry two bags. It is unclear how invasive the searches will be.

 

"We live in a world where sadly these types of security measures are necessary," Mr. Bloomberg said. "Are they intrusive? Yes, a little bit. But we're trying to find the right balance."

 

Mr. Kelly said most searches will occur in subway stations, but that the Police Department "will reserve the right" to check the bags of passengers on buses and ferries as well. While the policy is still being worked out, officials said passengers will be checked before they enter a station's turnstiles, though some people inside stations may also be searched.

 

People who do not submit to a search will be allowed to leave, but will not be permitted into the subway station. The police commissioner said officers would take pains to avoid singling people out for searches based on race or ethnicity.

 

"No racial profiling will be allowed," Mr. Kelly said. "It's against our policies. But it will be a systematized approach."

 

He added, "We'll give some very specific and detailed instructions to our officers on how to do it in accordance with our laws and the Constitution."

 

Despite the police commissioner's assurances, the new policy raised concerns about the prospect of unreasonable searches.

 

"The police can and should be aggressively investigating anyone they suspect is trying to bring explosives into the subway," said Christopher Dunn, associate legal director at the New York Civil Liberties Union. "However, random police searches of people without any suspicion of wrongdoing are contrary to our most basic constitutional values. This is a very troubling announcement."

 

Guilty until proven innocent. What's in your wallet?

[mmmmmbeeer]

It really is getting f***ing ridiculous. 9/11 was a tragedy, no doubt, but the brutal fact of the matter is that the attack resulted in the deaths of roughly .00001% of the US population. There is no way in hell that the infiringements upon our personal liberties, blatant disregard for our constitution, constant fear tactics delivered by our government, and a president with carte blanche powers over war, can be justified by an incident that claimed the lives of .00001% of our population. It's absolutely mad.

 

Worse yet, a surprising majority of our citizens back these insane attacks on liberty. Ask 10 people how they feel and probably 7-8 of them will respond with the ole loveable, "well, if you don't have anything to hide why should it bother you?" response. Federal legislation like the Patriot Act and local legislation like this bag search program should be raising cynicism across party lines; the democrats and their strong backing of civil liberties and republicans with their strict constitutionalist tendencies. Well, neither party gives a s*** beside their fringe members. Our "free" press does very little to bring sanity to the debate, for fear brings about better ratings.

 

We're walking down a treachorous road. We need to start getting the common man back in power from Washington down to the smallest municipalities.

[Texsox]

If we freely give up all our rights and liberties, the terrorists can't take them away.

[YASNY]

If we freely give up all our rights and liberties, the terrorists can't take them away.

 

They do this s*** to American citizens ... but they won't secure the damn borders. :headshake

[southsider2k5]

They do it in airports, arenas, stadiums, workplaces, etc, why not on the subways? The only surprise to me is that it took this long, and the searches are only random.

[Soxy]

They do it in airports, arenas, stadiums, workplaces, etc, why not on the subways?  The only surprise to me is that it took this long, and the searches are only random.

I'm sure they'll be really "random."

[southsider2k5]

I'm sure they'll be really "random."

 

I doubt they will either to be quite honest. Especially since it sounds like all of these attacks have been by people with at least middle eastern desent, even if they were residents of Britian. We all know many of our police racial profile on a good day, now we are talking second rate subway cops? Yeesh. Call me a cynic I guess, but like I said, I am surprised it took this long.

[mreye]

I don't support "insane attacks on liberty," but I fail to see where this is. I watched the chief of NYPD on TV this morning and he said if you refuse to have your bag searched, you are not allowed on the train. No arrest. No beat down. What's the problem. My bag is subject to a search every single day at my building. I know that. If I have a problem with it I would leave my bag at home and then be allowed into the building. They're not strip searching people. Give me a break. This is NOT a violation of the 4th ammendment.

[CubKilla]

I'm sure they'll be really "random."

 

They better damn well search every god-damn middle eastern looking person trying to get onto a subway, train, plane and/or bus. And don't blame the United States or the NYPD..... blame MIDDLE EASTERN MEN AND WOMEN for perpetuating the stereotype. I f***ing laugh everytime I'm traveling on some type of public transportation and a 2 year old black boy is searched, a 70+ year old hispanic woman is searched, and a 30-something business woman is searched just for the sake of "randomness" while a middle eastern man or woman is allowed a free pass just so the authorities don't appear to be acting prejudicially. Call me what you will, but I'd raise holy hell if I was getting onto a plane and I got searched but some middle eastern man didn't just to be "PC". I'd raise hell even if I wasn't searched. The day a 2 year old boy or a 70+ year old woman or a 30-something business woman hijack's a plane or blows up a bus, that's the day they should start being searched. And the searches should not be limited to just the middle eastern men. If they're traveling with family, everyone of them gets searched too. In a world where a religion is perverted to the point where many believe that if they blow themselves up and take as many innocents with them that that act will get them a free pass to Allah, I wouldn't put it past them to strap the bombs to their wives and/or children.

 

And white males have lost their right's thanks to Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, and the Columbine nit-wits.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

It really is getting f***ing ridiculous.  9/11 was a tragedy, no doubt, but the brutal fact of the matter is that the attack resulted in the deaths of roughly .00001% of the US population.  There is no way in hell that the infiringements upon our personal liberties, blatant disregard for our constitution, constant fear tactics delivered by our government, and a president with carte blanche powers over war,  can be justified by an incident that claimed the lives of .00001% of our population.  It's absolutely mad. 

 

Worse yet, a surprising majority of our citizens back these insane attacks on liberty.  Ask 10 people how they feel and probably 7-8 of them will respond with the ole loveable, "well, if you don't have anything to hide why should it bother you?" response. Federal legislation like the Patriot Act and local legislation like this bag search program should be raising cynicism across party lines; the democrats and their strong backing of civil liberties and republicans with their strict constitutionalist tendencies.  Well, neither party gives a s*** beside their fringe members.  Our "free" press does very little to bring sanity to the debate, for fear brings about better ratings. 

 

We're walking down a treachorous road. We need to start getting the common man back in power from Washington down to the smallest municipalities.

 

You're getting all worked up over something they've been doing in airports since time began. This is the exact thing only its less intrusive. If we searched people's bags in an airport the way they plan on doing in mass transit you'd be screaming that the government is not doing enough to keep us safe.

 

:rolly

[CubKilla]

BTW..... I have a feeling all the "infringing on my civil rights" people here would go absolutely ape-s*** on you-know-who and all his underlings if/when a subway gets bombed here talking on-and-on about you-know-who didn't do enough, blah, blah, blah.....

 

People were being searched well before 09/11 people and it has been ruled that the searches ARE NOT an infringment on your civil rights.

[sec159row2]

They better damn well search every god-damn middle eastern looking person trying to get onto a subway, train, plane and/or bus. And don't blame the United States or the NYPD..... blame MIDDLE EASTERN MEN AND WOMEN for perpetuating the stereotype. I f***ing laugh everytime I'm traveling on some type of public transportation and a 2 year old black boy is searched, a 70+ year old  hispanic woman is searched, and a 30-something business woman is searched just for the sake of "randomness" while a middle eastern man or woman is allowed a free pass just so the authorities don't appear to be acting prejudicially. Call me what you will, but I'd raise holy hell if I was getting onto a plane and I got searched but some middle eastern man didn't just to be "PC". I'd raise hell even if I wasn't searched. The day a 2 year old boy or a 70+ year old woman or a 30-something business woman hijack's a plane or blows up a bus, that's the day they should start being searched. And the searches should not be limited to just the middle eastern men. If they're traveling with family, everyone of them gets searched too. In a world where a religion is perverted to the point where many believe that if they blow themselves up and take as many innocents with them that that act will get them a free pass to Allah, I wouldn't put it past them to strap the bombs to their wives and/or children.

 

 

 

And white males have lost their right's thanks to Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, and the Columbine nit-wits.

 

 

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

They better damn well search every god-damn middle eastern looking person trying to get onto a subway, train, plane and/or bus. And don't blame the United States or the NYPD..... blame MIDDLE EASTERN MEN AND WOMEN for perpetuating the stereotype. I f***ing laugh everytime I'm traveling on some type of public transportation and a 2 year old black boy is searched, a 70+ year old  hispanic woman is searched, and a 30-something business woman is searched just for the sake of "randomness" while a middle eastern man or woman is allowed a free pass just so the authorities don't appear to be acting prejudicially. Call me what you will, but I'd raise holy hell if I was getting onto a plane and I got searched but some middle eastern man didn't just to be "PC". I'd raise hell even if I wasn't searched. The day a 2 year old boy or a 70+ year old woman or a 30-something business woman hijack's a plane or blows up a bus, that's the day they should start being searched. And the searches should not be limited to just the middle eastern men. If they're traveling with family, everyone of them gets searched too. In a world where a religion is perverted to the point where many believe that if they blow themselves up and take as many innocents with them that that act will get them a free pass to Allah, I wouldn't put it past them to strap the bombs to their wives and/or children.

 

And white males have lost their right's thanks to Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, and the Columbine nit-wits.

 

I totally agree Killa. I got on a plane once and me with a valid Military ID got damn near strip searched, some old lady behind me was hassled and given a hard time yet this Middle Eastern dude with a turban and a foot long beard was let by with no issues.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

BTW..... I have a feeling all the "infringing on my civil rights" people here would go absolutely ape-s*** on you-know-who and all his underlings if/when a subway gets bombed here talking on-and-on about you-know-who didn't do enough, blah, blah, blah.....

 

People were being searched well before 09/11 people and it has been ruled that the searches ARE NOT an infringment on your civil rights.

 

 

The government absolutely can't win with these people. When measures are taken to protect people then they start whining about how their rights are being infringed on but if nothing gets done then they b**** that we are not protected.

 

 

My question to these fair weather rights advocates is how would you protect a target as soft and wide open as mass transit? ( Sits back primed and ready to laugh ).

[YASNY]

There is no easy answer to this. Privacy is going to be invaded, as it has been. But racial profiling, however distasteful, seems to make sense to me. Yet, where does it stop?

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I doubt they will either to be quite honest.  Especially since it sounds like all of these attacks have been by people with at least middle eastern desent, even if they were residents of Britian.  We all know many of our police racial profile on a good day, now we are talking second rate subway cops?  Yeesh.  Call me a cynic I guess, but like I said, I am surprised it took this long.

 

 

It shouldn't have. Mass Transit is such an easy target and yet its the least protected of all forms of transportation. What shocks me is that we haven't had London style attacks on our mass transit systems yet.

[CubKilla]

Privacy is going to be invaded, as it has been.  But racial profiling, however distasteful, seems to make sense to me.  Yet, where does it stop?

 

Privacy has been invaded ever since I can remember and I'm only 30. Racial profiling, to the chagrin of, primarily, minorities, is a useful tool to initiate investigations.

 

And BTW..... white males are profiled just like black males are. Don't believe me? Ask a CPD tactical cop what he'd do if he saw a white male strolling the streets of Chicago's west side around Madison and Kedzie or Chicago's south side around 43rd and Federal.

 

Why aren't the lefties here and the Jessie's of the world screaming bloody murder when it's primarily WHITES arrested during the reverse-buy stings on the west and south sides of Chicago? Hmmmm.....

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Privacy has been invaded ever since I can remember and I'm only 30. Racial profiling, to the chagrin of, primarily, minorities, is a useful tool to initiate investigations.

 

And BTW..... white males are profiled just like black males are. Don't believe me? Ask a CPD tactical cop what he'd do if he saw a white male strolling the streets of Chicago's west side around Madison and Kedzie or Chicago's south side around 43rd and Federal.

 

Why aren't the lefties here and the Jessie's of the world screaming bloody murder when it's primarily WHITES arrested during the reverse-buy stings on the west and south sides of Chicago? Hmmmm.....

 

Wait a minute...........you mean white people are singled out for police scrutiny too?!?!?! SAY IT AINT SO!!!!

[CubKilla]

Wait a minute...........you mean white people are singled out for police scrutiny too?!?!?!  SAY IT AINT SO!!!!

 

As crazy as that sounds NUKE, it's true. Oh yes..... it's true

[CubKilla]

Wait a minute...........you mean white people are singled out for police scrutiny too?!?!?!  SAY IT AINT SO!!!!

 

As crazy as that sounds NUKE, it's true. Oh yes..... it's true

[Kogs35]

i lived in israel for 2 years and anytime i went on the busses through the central bus station in jerusalem, through the intercity busses i was checked and wanded or went through medal detectors. it was extra 5 min but its well worth it. when i would goto a mall i would go through a medal detecor, some restruants u get wanded there. people adapt.

[CubKilla]

Just heard a story being reported that those profiling bobbies in London chased and shot to death a male with a FULL LENGTH COAT ON IN THE MIDDLE OF SUMMER who ran from the bobbies after they attempted to stop him to investigate why a sane man would be wearing a full length coat in the middle of summer.

 

Saw the pics too of the four wanted for questioning in yesterday's botched attacks. Big surprise here..... they look middle eastern and they're male .

Edited July 22, 2005 by CubKilla

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Just heard a story being reported that those profiling bobbies in London chased and shot to death a male with a FULL LENGTH COAT ON IN THE MIDDLE OF SUMMER who ran from the bobbies after they attempted to stop him to investigate why a sane man would be wearing a full length coat in the middle of summer.

 

Saw the pics too of the four wanted for questioning in yesterday's botched attacks. Big surprise here..... they look middle eastern and they're male  .

 

 

Yeah but we can't scrutinize Middle Eastern males more than anyone else. That's racist.

 

[southsider2k5]

It shouldn't have.  Mass Transit is such an easy target and yet its the least protected of all forms of transportation.  What shocks me is that we haven't had London style attacks on our mass transit systems yet.

 

Really I am surprised it hasn't been along the Madrid bombings. To be quite honest security at our train stations is STILL a joke, and a huge attack isn't an "if", its a "when".

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

For all those who are bothered by hightened security I only have 4 words.

 

 

GET USED TO IT.

 

 

Get used to being searched at random.

 

Get used seeing heavily armed police in public spaces.

 

Get used seeing canine patrols.

 

Get used to it all because problems such as suicide bombings, random shootings and kidnappings are no longer something you hear about going on in someplace like Isreal or Beirut or Baghdad, it's coming and its coming to a city near you.