The AJ Burnett 24 Hour Window Thread

[danman31]

Im sure you knew Buerhle was going to be a stud as well. He only got passed up 1110 times. Some well known scouts even missed on him. I would not trade Gio , give me a guy that has 4 above average pitches and a fastball with movement  than a guy who has 2 pitches , a good fastball with no movemnet anytime. Its ludicrous to say "  I'd like to think I have a very thorough understanding of the Sox system." when 96 percent of minor leaguers dont even make it to the big leagues. If that was the case you can be making allot of cash scouting.

It's a crapshoot yes, but you're being a fool to give up on Brandon this soon while annoiting Gio the next coming. You're contradicting your own argument here buddy. You're talking about 96% of minor leaguers not making it, meanwhile, you are saying Gio has what it takes. This is just insanity from an ignorant person.

[Soxpranos]

BRANDON McCARTHY, rhp Age: 21 B-T: R-R Ht: 6-7 Wt: 190

Drafted: Lamar (Colo.) CC, 2002 (17th round) Signed by: Joe Butler/John Kazanas

 

 

Background: Scouts John Kazanas and Joe Butler did an excellent job when they locked onto McCarthy after he had gone 12-0 and struck out 14 per nine innings in junior college in 2002. He led the Rookie-level Arizona and Pioneer leagues in strikeouts in his first two pro seasons, then topped the entire minors with 202 whiffs in 2004.

 

Strengths: McCarthy’s best pitch is a two-seam fastball that generally parks around 90 mph, and he has a four-seamer that hits 92-93. He also has a plus curveball. His height allows him to deliver pitches on a steep downward plane, and he throws strikes at will with an easily repeatable delivery.

 

Weaknesses: McCarthy has sailed to Double-A without a hitch. He can get better with his changeup, and he has started to make progress and use it more often.

 

The Future: Chicago couldn’t find a fifth starter in 2004, and McCarthy could jump into consideration with a strong spring. He’ll probably return to Double-A but won’t stay long if he picks up where he left off.

 

GIO GONZALEZ, lhp Age: 19 B-T: L-L Ht: 6-0 Wt: 170

Drafted: HS—Miami, 2004 (1st round supplemental) Signed by: Jose Ortega

 

 

Background: A top pitching prospect since he won Florida 6-A state title games at Miami’s Hialeah High as a freshman and sophomore, Gonzalez transferred to private Monsignor Pace High for his senior season. The White Sox might not have been able to grab him with the No. 38 pick had he not been dismissed from the team following a dispute between his mother and the coach over his brother’s lack of playing time. He signed for $850,000.

 

Strengths: Gonzalez has an advanced feel for pitching for someone so young, with good command of a nice collection of pitches. His 87-90 mph fastball peaks at 94, but his out pitch is a tight curveball he throws in any count. He also has a decent changeup.

 

Weaknesses: Because he does not have a powerful build, some scouts wonder about Gonzalez’ durability. He carries himself with an air of cockiness that could get tiresome, especially if he struggles.

 

The Future: Gonzalez handled low Class A in his pro debut but probably will begin 2005 back in Kannapolis. He should move faster than most high school pitchers.

[nitetrain8601]

It's a crapshoot yes, but you're being a fool to give up on Brandon this soon while annoiting Gio the next coming. You're contradicting your own argument here buddy. You're talking about 96% of minor leaguers not making it, meanwhile, you are saying Gio has what it takes. This is just insanity from an ignorant person.

 

Which is the point. We already know what Burnett is. Plus he still has room for improvement. I would trade Gio right away too, but BMac is in demand so I say out with his ass. I'm trying to win a WS and Burnett betters my chances of that happening.

[danman31]

Ok, that basically furthered my point.

 

They each have 3 pitches with developing changes.

[knightni]

I think they would both still be here right?  Even if the Sox take on Lowell I haven't heard Crede's going. 

 

Also, I would add to Mike Lowell's column World Series Champion.  Not a bad bench insurance policy IMO.

He didn't do much to get his ring if I recall. He was injured most of the season.

[danman31]

Which is the point. We already know what Burnett is. Plus he still has room for improvement. I would trade Gio right away too, but BMac is in demand so I say out with his ass. I'm trying to win a WS and Burnett betters my chances of that happening.

I agree mostly. My argument is that people think Brandon won't make it. As Jugg said Burnett isn't getting any better and BMac+Marte would be overpaying. I'd rather have a closer (Wagner) and would pay the same price. If the trade happens I won't be upset, but if it were up to me I wouldn't go after a starting pitcher at all. I'd go after a closer.

[Chisoxfn]

Which is the point. We already know what Burnett is. Plus he still has room for improvement. I would trade Gio right away too, but BMac is in demand so I say out with his ass. I'm trying to win a WS and Burnett betters my chances of that happening.

No, your telling me that Gio is better than Bmac right now. Thats completely wrong. Gio has been pitching very well, but he has a heck of a lot more weaknesses than Brandon (part of it is deservingly so, less experience, etc). However Brandon is a very very poised young pitcher who flat out has dominated every level he's been in.

 

Now he has struggled in Charlotte this year, but there are reasons to that and he's getting into a groove these past couple starts. He's still k'ing guys left and right and quite frankly he was rushed into Charlotte. Turns out that his awesome spring training was actually bad for him because instead of going back to Bham (which he could of used) he went straight to Charlotte (so he has had to learn on the fly in a sense).

 

He'll pitch his ass off down the stretch...mark my words.

 

And he has a plus changeup too, people are starting to say its better than his curve. The Sox just haven't used it much this year for some reason.

[Soxpranos]

Gio reminds me of a Left handed Pedro Martinez.. No one is giving him a fair shot due to his size.. I recall Rauch was one of the top prospects in MLB , Why cause of his size. In reality he had medicore to below average stuff. McCarthy has size, and Gio doesnt, again people tend to go with the bigger athlete that they tend to think is better, which in mnay cases they are dead wrong. Pedro just a great example, another is a guy that goes by Maddux.

[Chisoxfn]

Gio reminds me of a Left handed Pedro Martinez.. No one is giving him a fair shot due to his size.. I recall Rauch was one of the top prospects in MLB , Why cause of his size. In reality he had medicore to below average stuff. McCarthy has size, and Gio doesnt, again people tend to go with the bigger athlete that they tend to think is better, which in mnay cases they are dead wrong.  Pedro just a great example, another is a guy that goes by Maddux.

Pre-surgery Rauch looked like he was going to be amazing. Problem is he never regained his stuff after hurting his labrum.

 

Pedro is nothing like Gio. Pedro is a power pitcher, Gio isn't.

[knightni]

then nails together a package of something like chris young, tracey, for lilly

YUK!

 

Just say no to that one.

 

By the way, the Fantasy Baseball trading deadline is August 1 this year.

[danman31]

Gio reminds me of a Left handed Pedro Martinez.. No one is giving him a fair shot due to his size.. I recall Rauch was one of the top prospects in MLB , Why cause of his size. In reality he had medicore to below average stuff. McCarthy has size, and Gio doesnt, again people tend to go with the bigger athlete that they tend to think is better, which in mnay cases they are dead wrong.  Pedro just a great example, another is a guy that goes by Maddux.

Scouts rate velocity way too highly imo. Therefore taller guys will be rated higher because they can dial it up. I've often thought of a Pedro comparison, but his stuff isn't as good in potential. He needs to improve his fastball, but he's definitely a top tier pitching prospect.

[daa84]

And he has a plus changeup too, people are starting to say its better than his curve. The Sox just haven't used it much this year for some reason.

because its not better than his curve...

[RockRaines]

No, your telling me that Gio is better than Bmac right now.  Thats completely wrong.  Gio has been pitching very well, but he has a heck of a lot more weaknesses than Brandon (part of it is deservingly so, less experience, etc).  However Brandon is a very very poised young pitcher who flat out has dominated every level he's been in.

 

 

And he has a plus changeup too, people are starting to say its better than his curve. The Sox just haven't used it much this year for some reason.

 

Nobody said Gio is better than BMACM right now. But BMAC isnt better than what we have right now. Hes not even the best guy on his team at the moment. Since we dont have any room for him, its a better investment to trade him because his value is higher than our other guys. Gio is a much more heralded prospect, was chosen higher, has better "stuff" than BMAC and has a better upside being left handed and with his pitches. BMAC was a good pitcher in the lower minors, and was decent in ST, but has been exposed in the majors and is not going to be ready yet. With the time we will wait through out existing rotation, BMAC wont get the chance he deseves. By the time we need to bring a guy up, Gio, or Ray may be ready. I understand everyone's attachment to BMAC, but look at the facts and whats better for the organization as a whole.

[Soxpranos]

No, your telling me that Gio is better than Bmac right now.  Thats completely wrong.  Gio has been pitching very well, but he has a heck of a lot more weaknesses than Brandon (part of it is deservingly so, less experience, etc).  However Brandon is a very very poised young pitcher who flat out has dominated every level he's been in.

 

Now he has struggled in Charlotte this year, but there are reasons to that and he's getting into a groove these past couple starts.  He's still k'ing guys left and right and quite frankly he was rushed into Charlotte.  Turns out that his awesome spring training was actually bad for him because instead of going back to Bham (which he could of used) he went straight to Charlotte (so he has had to learn on the fly in a sense). 

 

He'll pitch his ass off down the stretch...mark my words. 

 

And he has a plus changeup too, people are starting to say its better than his curve. The Sox just haven't used it much this year for some reason.

 

Confidence is a big part of being sucessfull, Brandon is lacking it .. it shows especially when he doent use his change up. Brandon is poised above his years. As for me I truly wish the Sox can hang on to both of them. Maybe we can trade Honnel and Stumm instead.

[Chisoxfn]

Scouts rate velocity way too highly imo. Therefore taller guys will be rated higher because they can dial it up. I've often thought of a Pedro comparison, but his stuff isn't as good in potential. He needs to improve his fastball, but he's definitely a top tier pitching prospect.

I'll agree with scouts over-rating fastballs. I care a lot more about control and the quality off their offspeed stuff. Velocity means you can get away with more, but if you can't throw strikes and keep hitters off balance (with good off-speed pitches) your gonna struggle.

 

Gio is a very good prospect too, if he dominates WS like he did Kanny you'll me start talking about backing him more. Only thing that really worries me with him is durability.

 

Of course I don't rate him anywhere close to Bmac. I think Bmac is bar none the best pitcher in the system.

[RockRaines]

Pre-surgery Rauch looked like he was going to be amazing.  Problem is he never regained his stuff after hurting his labrum. 

 

Pedro is nothing like Gio.  Pedro is a power pitcher, Gio isn't.

Gio does dial it up though, BUt his curve his much better than Pedro's breaking balls.

[Chisoxfn]

because its not better than his curve...

Totally disagree. He has a very good curve, but his changeup is filthy.

[Chisoxfn]

Gio does dial it up though, BUt his curve his much better than Pedro's breaking balls.

Gio doesn't throw that hard. He's not consistently in the mid 90's. He's a low 90's pitcher (this is not a knock). I'm just saying that he doesn't dial it up.

[RockRaines]

Of course I don't rate him anywhere close to Bmac.  I think Bmac is bar none the best pitcher in the system.

According to what? Cause the stats arent there. Is it just postive thinking? HIs performance last year? His performance in ST? What is your rating system.

[daa84]

just a general question to all posters out there. i dont know much about our minor leaguers, i mean i know pretty much all the names, and i can give you the general stats for most of em, but that dont mean i know much. how many people on here actually have seen these guys pitch/play. i know some have, because they leave near charlotte/bham/etc. but i suspect alot of people on here just make claims about minor league prospects based on like the 2 innings they saw in spring training or something of that sort, and many of their claims are unsubstantiated. for example, i know from my subscription to baseball america what gio throws, what his stats are, what he has done at each stop. but by no means can i sit here and say taht he is better or worse than bmac, since i have never seen gio pitch and couldnt even pick him out of a crowd. my gut would tell me hes worse than brandon just becuase brandon dominated at high A, but then again, brandon was 2 years older when he did that, so i could be wrong. at any rate, i have 0 idea about how much more often gio would pound the strikezone than mccarthy, and quite frankly i dont think many on here do either

[RockRaines]

Gio doesn't throw that hard.  He's not consistently in the mid 90's.  He's a low 90's pitcher (this is not a knock).  I'm just saying that he doesn't dial it up.

Low 90's and mids on occasion. And with age and growth I expect it to climb

[Soxpranos]

Kannapolis was a field of dreams for Liotta and fellow lefthander Gio Gonzalez. The two gave the Intimidators one the better lefty combos at the low Class A level until Gonzalez was moved up to high Class A Winston-Salem in the Carolina League in mid-June.

 

Liotta was 5-3, 2.48 in his first 15 starts, striking out 79 and walking 24 in his first 91 innings. Gonzalez missed two turns in the rotation because of a strained side muscle in April but then went 5-3, 1.87 in 11 starts and 58 innings, striking out 84 and walking 22.

 

He had made only one start for Winston-Salem and was expected to miss one or two starts with pain in his triceps that the organization doesn't consider serious. But like Liotta, he has serious stuff.

 

"They have both been outstanding," Kannapolis pitching coach J.R. Perdew said before Gonzalez' promotion. "You really couldn't ask for anything more from them."

 

Gonzalez has been dazzling since the White Sox used a supplemental first-round draft choice on him last year. He went a combined 2-3, 2.70 with Rookie-level Bristol and Kannapolis in his pro debut.

 

"He has a very mature approach to pitching and being one of the youngest pitchers in the league doesn't faze him at all," Perdew said. "He has the command of three good pitches (fastball, 12-to-6 curveball and changeup) and has no fear of facing older hitters."

 

While Gonzalez is happy with his performance on the mound, he is trying to change people's perception of him.

 

Gonzalez was thrown off the team at Monsignor Pace High in South Florida last season after a dispute involving his mother and coach Tom Duffin over playing time for his younger brother, Max.

 

"I think a lot of people have the impression I'm a bad guy, but all I ask is don't judge a book by the cover," Gonzalez said. "I've worked very hard and the White Sox have been great. They have welcomed me with open arms and been very, very supportive of me. They've made me feel wanted from Day One."

 

Gonzalez, 19, has repaid with the White Sox with some fine pitching.

 

"The transition from high school to pro isn't easy," Gonzalez said. "You might get a mistake past these hitters one time, but you're not going to do it a second time because they are going to pound it. It's been a great learning experience and I'm really happy with the way I've handled it."

 

Liotta, 22, took a bit of a gamble last year when he transferred from Tulane to Gulf Coast Community College in Panama City, Fla., in order to become eligible for the draft as a sophomore. Liotta's move paid off as the White Sox chose him in the second round.

 

Liotta won the ERA title in the Rookie-level Pioneer League last year, going 5-1, 2.54 in 14 games, 11 starts. He feels he is an even better pitcher this season because he has learned to spot his tailing fastball in the 86-91 mph range, which complements his curve.

 

"In pro ball, you're not going to survive if you don't have a fastball," Liotta said. "The hitters will just sit on the curveball and hit it. I've made some mechanical adjustments that have helped me throw my fastball down in the strike zone consistently and that has made a big difference."

[danman31]

Since we dont have any room for him, its a better investment to trade him because his value is higher than our other guys.  Gio is a much more heralded prospect, was chosen higher, has better "stuff" than BMAC and has a better upside being left handed and with his pitches.  BMAC was a good pitcher in the lower minors, and was decent in ST, but has been exposed in the majors and is not going to be ready yet.  With the time we will wait through out existing rotation, BMAC wont get the chance he deseves.  By the time we need to bring a guy up, Gio, or Ray may be ready.  I understand everyone's attachment to BMAC, but look at the facts and whats better for the organization as a whole.

I agree that BMac is a great chip for trade. We're trying to win this year and do whatever it takes to do so.

 

Gio more heralded prospect? Umm ok. Maybe in high school, but not now.

[daa84]

Totally disagree.  He has a very good curve, but his changeup is filthy.

i dont really know, everything ive read has just said that he has a plus plus breaking ball, and a developing change. the change he got teixeira out on in spring training was nasty, but to be honest with you that was the only time i really saw it. i know he mixed it in a few other times during his starts in the majors, but the one to tex was the only one that stands out, whereas i remember being extremely impressed with the deuce.

[nitetrain8601]

Nobody said Gio is better than BMACM right now.  But BMAC isnt better than what we have right now.  Hes not even the best guy on his team at the moment.  Since we dont have any room for him, its a better investment to trade him because his value is higher than our other guys.  Gio is a much more heralded prospect, was chosen higher, has better "stuff" than BMAC and has a better upside being left handed and with his pitches.  BMAC was a good pitcher in the lower minors, and was decent in ST, but has been exposed in the majors and is not going to be ready yet.  With the time we will wait through out existing rotation, BMAC wont get the chance he deseves.  By the time we need to bring a guy up, Gio, or Ray may be ready.  I understand everyone's attachment to BMAC, but look at the facts and whats better for the organization as a whole.

 

Thank you.