the overbay deal should be in the works

[cragi]

Brewer fan here to give my take on the overbay rumors.

 

First off, as a brewer fan I believe the Brewers fleeced the Sox to get Lee, as they were desperate both to unload Podz and were equally desperate to acquire power. But if I can just as easily see how a Sox fan would think they fleeced the Brewers. An amazing result for both teams indeed.

 

Second, I love Overbay. The knock on him is what value is a first baseman that can't hit homeruns (only 16 last year.. but he did have 53 2Bs)? He is probably the biggest fan favorite (and my favorite) because he works hard and was the best hitter (by far) on last year's team, though he tailed off at the end when the brewers were out of contention. It seems that many Brewers go through prolonged hitting slumps and you start to wonder about the hitting coach. Overbay can get locked in to hitting for very long stretches and is pretty much automatic when that happens. At his price tag to a cheap team like Milwaukee, you hate to let someone like that go. I still don't think we've seen his best yet..career minor league numbers looked positive and he's about to hit his peak age. It's unfortunate that two of their best players play the same position and are both cheap right now. I really think he's going to turn into a .310/25HR type of player when he levels off and the Brewers could really use that.

 

Unfortunately there is no position for him. He is not versatile enough to move and if we had a DH spot, we'd put Fielder there, but unless we switch back to the AL... The problem is serious as Fielder is ready and the Brewers want him to get experience for next year (see the rash of youth they've brought up already). The Brewers think they have a Frank Thomas - type future perennial allstar in Fielder. They need to move Overbay now. If you had been on the Brewer fan boards at all this year, you'd have seen a hundred posts along the lines of "we know we must deal overbay, but who would take a first baseman that cant hit for power?" These posts began BEFORE the season. His days were already numbered. Melvin is no rush and he's posturing to sweeten the deal. The Sox need to overpay and Melvin won't settle for just an even deal. After all, overbay is the fan favorite, and Mark A has just "won" back the crowds to miller park. the deal needs to look good so it doesnt look like they are just throwing in the towel on the season.

[southsideirish71]

Brewer fan here to give my take on the overbay rumors.

 

First off, as a brewer fan I believe the Brewers fleeced the Sox to get Lee, as they were desperate both to unload Podz and were equally desperate to acquire power.  But if I can just as easily see how a Sox fan would think they fleeced the Brewers.  An amazing result for both teams indeed.

 

Second, I love Overbay.  The knock on him is what value is a first baseman that can't hit homeruns (only 16 last year.. but he did have 53 2Bs)?  He is probably the biggest fan favorite (and my favorite) because he works hard and was the best hitter (by far) on last year's team, though he tailed off at the end when the brewers were out of contention.  It seems that many Brewers go through prolonged hitting slumps and you start to wonder about the hitting coach. Overbay can get locked in to hitting for very long stretches and is pretty much automatic when that happens.  At his price tag to a cheap team like Milwaukee, you hate to let someone like that go.  I still don't think we've seen his best yet..career minor league numbers looked positive and he's about to hit his peak age.  It's unfortunate that two of their best players play the same position and are both cheap right now.  I really think he's going to turn into a .310/25HR type of player when he levels off and the Brewers could really use that.

 

Unfortunately there is no position for him.  He is not versatile enough to move and if we had a DH spot, we'd put Fielder there, but unless we switch back to the AL...  The problem is serious as Fielder is ready and the Brewers want him to get experience for next year (see the rash of youth they've brought up already).  The Brewers think they have a Frank Thomas - type future perennial allstar in Fielder.  They need to move Overbay now.  If you had been on the Brewer fan boards at all this year, you'd have seen a hundred posts along the lines of "we know we must deal overbay, but who would take a first baseman that cant hit for power?"  These posts began BEFORE the season.  His days were already numbered.  Melvin is no rush and he's posturing to sweeten the deal.  The Sox need to overpay and Melvin won't settle for just an even deal.  After all, overbay is the fan favorite, and Mark A has just "won" back the crowds to miller park.  the deal needs to look good so it doesnt look like they are just throwing in the towel on the season.

 

That deal seemed to work for both teams. Viz at times can give us heart attacks. His splits against lefties are nowhere near what they were last year.

 

I am more of a fan of high BA doubles type hitters than most. I would like to pick up either Overbay or Huff. Someone that can give us a good bat, which we need but can also be part of a future. Kong will get his big money probably after this year, but I dont see this team paying 10 million for him.

 

I am getting numb to the trade rumors now. This is worse than the hot stove season. Hopefully a few moves are made and we get some reinforcements for the playoff run.

[SnB]

i think the word fleeced is terrible to use in that trade.

 

The trade worked out for both teams, that is how all trades should be.

[fathom]

The Brewers would be stupid to trade Overbay now. They'd be better off trading him in the offseason. With the very weak FA 1b crop coming up, there will be a lot of teams looking to upgrade at the position via trade.

[GoodAsGould]

In terms of talent aquired the Brewers got the much better deal but in terms how it has helped each team its about equal id say... anyways I love Overbay but I dont want to way overpay for him now when he can prob be had for much cheaper in the off-season.

[Rowand44]

In terms of talent aquired the Brewers got the much better deal

How so?

[cragi]

i think the word fleeced is terrible to use in that trade.

 

The trade worked out for both teams, that is how all trades should be.

I agree. I was saying fans of both teams could think that way.

 

Prior to the deal, (the always cash-conscious) Brewer fans were thinking..'oh great we just signed a big deal to career .250 hitter (Pods) that had one big year and now has sunk back to reality. Also, we have nobody that can knock in runs..now what?' The Lee deal seemed way too good to be true...and I know you have similar reasoning for thinking the opposite.

Edited July 27, 2005 by cragi

[Milkman delivers]

The fact that Overbay isn't a power hitter right now shouldn't even be considered. The minute he puts on a Sox uniform, his average will drop 30 points and his power will increase.

[southsideirish71]

The fact that Overbay isn't a power hitter right now shouldn't even be considered.  The minute he puts on a Sox uniform, his average will drop 30 points and his power will increase.

 

 

Hello Mr. Overbay my name is Greg Walker, I need to talk to you about your high BA and low power. I have worked with lots of hitters on the whitesox and have a fool proof method of giving you more power for just a slight drop in BA.

 

2006 Overbay hits 30 homers and has a 212 BA

 

LOL

[cragi]

The fact that Overbay isn't a power hitter right now shouldn't even be considered.  The minute he puts on a Sox uniform, his average will drop 30 points and his power will increase.

 

except you need to add the brewer hitting factor into the equation. The brewers seem to hit 30 points less and not gain any power in return.

 

carlos lee

2004 batted .305

new and improved brewer carlos lee

2005 batting .266

 

Scott Podsednik

2004 batted .244

2005 batting .302

 

the brewers hitting coach is as bad as their pitching coach is good

Edited July 27, 2005 by cragi

[Rowand44]

Hello Mr. Overbay my name is Greg Walker, I need to talk to you about your high BA and low power.  I have worked with lots of hitters on the whitesox and have a fool proof method of giving you more power for just a slight drop in BA. 

 

2006 Overbay hits 30 homers and has a 212 BA

 

LOL

Hilarious

Edited July 27, 2005 by Rowand44

[YASNY]

I agree.  I was saying fans of both teams could think that way.

 

Prior to the deal, (the always cash-conscious) Brewer fans were thinking..'oh great we just signed a big deal to career .250 hitter (Pods) that had one big year and now has sunk back to reality.  Also, we have nobody that can knock in runs..now what?'  The Lee deal seemed way too good to be true...and I know you have similar reasoning for thinking the opposite.

 

What better than for the fans of both teams that each are happy with the deal. Carlos was a source of frustration for a long time to a lot of fans around here. He's a talented hitter though, and the Brewers' did not hurt themselves in acquiring him. Conversely, Podsednik has been exactly what we hoped he would be and with his addition, and the addition of several key players with money we would have spent on Lee's salary, most Sox fans are well pleased with the deal and the results that show up in the standings.

Edited July 27, 2005 by YASNY

[Milkman delivers]

Hello Mr. Overbay my name is Greg Walker, I need to talk to you about your high BA and low power.  I have worked with lots of hitters on the whitesox and have a fool proof method of giving you more power for just a slight drop in BA. 

 

2006 Overbay hits 30 homers and has a 212 BA

 

LOL

 

IMO, it's not just Greg Walker. It's the fact that most major leaguers, when they realize that they can hit more homers, will become enamored of that prospect.

[JoshPR]

Fleeced??

 

Enjoy losing LOL!

[DBAHO]

Hello Mr. Overbay my name is Greg Walker, I need to talk to you about your high BA and low power.  I have worked with lots of hitters on the whitesox and have a fool proof method of giving you more power for just a slight drop in BA. 

 

2006 Overbay hits 30 homers and has a 212 BA

 

LOL

Hello Mr. Podsednik my name is Greg Walker. In 2004 you sucked................... Oh the irony.

[southsider2k5]

Hello Mr. Overbay my name is Greg Walker, I need to talk to you about your high BA and low power.  I have worked with lots of hitters on the whitesox and have a fool proof method of giving you more power for just a slight drop in BA. 

 

2006 Overbay hits 30 homers and has a 212 BA

 

LOL

 

You know how some jokes start with "stop me if you have heard this one before..."?

 

well...

 

 

STOP!!!!

[Dick Allen]

The Brewers would be stupid to trade Overbay now.  They'd be better off trading him in the offseason.  With the very weak FA 1b crop coming up, there will be a lot of teams looking to upgrade at the position via trade.

I read where the Brewers feel they could get major league players for Overbay if they wait until the offseason, but would probably only be able to get prospects if they traded him now. They apparently would rather have major league ready players rather than prospects.

[Wedge]

I read where the Brewers feel they could get major league players for Overbay if they wait until the offseason, but would probably only be able to get prospects if they traded him now. They apparently would rather have major league ready players rather than prospects.

 

It's probably the right attitude: two guys that can fill holes in 2006 OR three guys that might never make MLB.

[cragi]

It's probably the right attitude: two guys that can fill holes in 2006 OR three guys that might never make MLB.

 

the brewers don't have any obvious holes to fill. This is why they should be willing to look at prospects if they have bigger upside. If they could dump Jenkins contract, they probably would, except that if they combined him with overbay, they would be unloading their 2 most popular hitters and Jenkins still is their best defensive player (along with Hardy). The team has some average, serviceable, cheap players (C, relievers, 3B until Braun) that can be ugraded. Backups Magruder and Durrington can be upgraded, but there have prospects that could take on that role.

[3E8]

the brewers don't have any obvious holes to fill.  This is why they should be willing to look at prospects if they have bigger upside.  If they could dump Jenkins contract, they probably would, except that if they combined him with overbay, they would be unloading their 2 most popular hitters and Jenkins still is their best defensive player (along with Hardy).  The team has some average, serviceable, cheap players (C, relievers, 3B until Braun) that can be ugraded.  Backups Magruder and Durrington can be upgraded, but there have prospects that could take on that role.

So what is your take on Attanasio scoffing at the idea of trading Overbay? I think he had some quote today saying, "why would we do that?"

[Wedge]

the brewers don't have any obvious holes to fill.

 

If they have no obvious holes, then why are they not competing for the wild card? I guess they're sort of on the border, but I don't think they'll seriously threaten to take it.

 

This is why they should be willing to look at prospects if they have bigger upside.  If they could dump Jenkins contract, they probably would, except that if they combined him with overbay, they would be unloading their 2 most popular hitters and Jenkins still is their best defensive player (along with Hardy).  The team has some average, serviceable, cheap players (C, relievers, 3B until Braun) that can be ugraded.  Backups Magruder and Durrington can be upgraded, but there have prospects that could take on that role.

 

From the sounds of it, they probably could use a little more pitching and/or a position player to put them over the top. If I were them, I would at a minimum try to get a 4/5 starter/long reliever (a la Ted Lilly) and a very good prospect for Overbay. That sort of deal is more likely in the offseason since a lot of contenders are looking for pitching or want to hold onto the pitching that they have.

[ChWRoCk2]

i was at the brewers game yesterday and overbay hit a homer and singled, he seems to make contact and hit the ball better konerko but i still dont get where we would put him, and thats the problem when you have a full infield and everett also as a DH possibility. cragi was right brewers fans loved him there, every time he stepped up to the plate they all held up big O's or made one with their arms and kept saying O constantly. We could use another lefty power bat the only problem is where to put him and what to do when a guy like frank thomas gets back, i guess my only question is, can he play third or would we plan to put konerko at third like the padres putting nevin to catcher?

[ptatc]

IMO, it's not just Greg Walker.  It's the fact that most major leaguers, when they realize that they can hit more homers, will become enamored of that prospect.

 

Especially when they see how the ball flies out of comiskey. I think that is what happened to a guy like AJ. He saw how the ball flies and alters his approach. Balls that used to bounce off the baggy in Min, fly out of our park.

[DBAHO]

i was at the brewers game yesterday and overbay hit a homer and singled, he seems to make contact and hit the ball better konerko but i still dont get where we would put him, and thats the problem when you have a full infield and everett also as a DH possibility.  cragi was right brewers fans loved him there, every time he stepped up to the plate they all held up big O's or made one with their arms and kept saying O constantly.  We could use another lefty power bat the only problem is where to put him and what to do when a guy like frank thomas gets back, i guess my only question is, can he play third or would we plan to put konerko at third like the padres putting nevin to catcher?

No Overbay can't play third. Chad Tracy however........... (damn I've been saying that a lot lately).

[cragi]

So what is your take on Attanasio scoffing at the idea of trading Overbay?  I think he had some quote today saying, "why would we do that?"

 

Mark A is still thinking playoffs and possible upgrading for a little while at least, so maybe its wait and see, unless a great offer comes along, As for Melvin, he always downplays the trade and then it happens - and he is calling the shots. If the right deal came along, Melvin would jump on it (like he did to acquire Overbay for Sexson in the first place, resulting in several holes filled). The Brewers are aware that Overbay needs to be dealt as he doesn't fit into next year's plan, but I guess they aren't really 'desperate' if next year's 1b free agent market is weak as was mentioned.