Would you vote Palmeiro into the HoF?

[White Sox Josh]

I say yes because most likley Bonds is going in and even if he did use steriods, he's ruining his body in the long term for people like me to have a more enjoyable expierance watching the game.

 

I say promote the use of steriods among professionals, it will make them better and make the game more entertaining.

My thoughts on what you just said.Ok so you are saying as long as it increases performance it is ok. No it isn't because taking steroids is imoral and illegal. Unless it's with a doctors permission(medical reasons) it should not be used because it promotes it to kids who they can say well if Bonds is using it i should use it. And you know what the worst thing about the steroid mess is: A High School kid will be say to himself well if Bonds is using it and he isn't getting hurt it must be OK and he will die. That is the thing that sucks about this.

[Balta1701]

The only 'roid guy I see this hurting as far as the HOF is concerned is McGwire. I think he was seen as one-dimensional anyway, and when that one dimension is thrown into question then many people can easily justify not voting him in.

Palmeiro is still one of only 4 guys to get 3,000+/500+ and he will probably get to 3,000+/600+. Hard numbers to ignore, even with a steroid suspension. If he gets another, however.....that could be a different story.

So...let's say for the sake of argument that he's been on steroids since his career took off, as alleged by Jose.

 

Most of his home runs haven't been 450 feet. A lot have probably just cleared the fence. So how many of those home runs would have been flyouts? How many pitches has he hit that have just gotten over someone? How much more playing time has he gotten because of his home run numbers? How many balls did he hit off the wall for doubles that would have been flyouts without the extra 10 feet? If he was 2500 hits and 100 home runs, would you vote him in? 2600 and 200? 2700 and 300? 2800 and 400?

 

Some people were saying Palmeiro shouldn't reach the hall even before this just because he never dominated a league. This is just another wrench. If he isn't voted in, I think the Vets committee will murder him based on this conviction too.

[Goldmember]

don't think he deserves to be in, but he should be depending on if guys like bonds gets voted in.

[kev211]

don't think he deserves to be in, but he should be depending on if guys like bonds gets voted in.

Well do you think bonds should be voted in?

[Middle Buffalo]

So...let's say for the sake of argument that he's been on steroids since his career took off, as alleged by Jose.

 

Most of his home runs haven't been 450 feet.  A lot have probably just cleared the fence.  So how many of those home runs would have been flyouts?  How many pitches has he hit that have just gotten over someone?  How much more playing time has he gotten because of his home run numbers?  How many balls did he hit off the wall for doubles that would have been flyouts without the extra 10 feet?  If he was 2500 hits and 100 home runs, would you vote him in?  2600 and 200?  2700 and 300?  2800 and 400?

 

Some people were saying Palmeiro shouldn't reach the hall even before this just because he never dominated a league.  This is just another wrench.  If he isn't voted in, I think the Vets committee will murder him based on this conviction too.

Raffy has 3000 hits, which is usually an automatic by itself.

[LosMediasBlancas]

the biggest joke in sports is that Rose is not in the HOF.

[ChWRoCk2]

i actually chose yes, like giambi said earlier in the year, steroids make you stronger but they dont change how you see and hit the ball, you have to hit it before the drugs kick in

[greasywheels121]

i actually chose yes, like giambi said earlier in the year, steroids make you stronger but they dont change how you see and hit the ball, you have to hit it before the drugs kick in

 

These guys just say that as an excuse as to steroids not making them better. However, if that's the case, why are these players even taking them?

[ChWRoCk2]

These guys just say that as an excuse as to steroids not making them better.  However, if that's the case, why are these players even taking them?

that makes me wonder also, im sure alot of the HOF players used some sort of enhancement, so i dont think it would be fair to single newer players out, hearing all of this steroid talk makes pete rose sound like an inductee, palmeiro is a dumbass for using his viagroids in the first place

[greasywheels121]

It definitely makes you think Palmeiro put up numbers that he probably wasn't capable of producing.

 

And because of that, the little respect I did have for the guy (I didn't like the guy to begin with), was lost today.

Edited August 2, 2005 by greasywheels121

[SoxFan1]

I give him a HELL NO!

 

1) He lied.

 

2) He lied.

[YASNY]

Fact: We are talking about a player who was once traded by the Cubs because they felt he'd never develop into a power hitter. They kept Grace instead.

 

Fact: He went on to hit nearly 600 HR.

 

Fact: He was accused by a former teammate of juicing up early in his career.

 

Fact: Near the end of his career, a new testing procedure is implemented and he tests positive.

 

Fact: While steroids does not 'help you hit a 95 mph fastball' it does help you recuprate from the daily aches and pains that come from being a pro athelete.

 

Now let's look at this and whether steroids plays a role in his career. A ML organization decided 'no power' and the guy hits almost 600 HR. Without his power numbers, would he have stayed around long enough to come close to 3000 hits? Without the recuperative effects of roids, would he have lasted long enough to hold onto a ML job more 7 or 8 years? Could he hit that 95 mph heater with sore achy muscles, or would they slow his bat down. Would his bat have slowed down at a younger age? Can steroids add increased performance over and extended period of time? Damn right they can. HOF? An emphatic no.

[YASNY]

Bonds. Canseco. Palmeiro. Sosa. McGwire. B Boone. I Rodriguez. Giambi. Who else?

 

These are the players that are generally believed to have used steroids. Giambi and Canseco are admitted steroid users. Neither will make the HOF, though at one point in each of their careers they seemed to be well on their way. Boone is not going to the HOF, regardless.

 

Each of the other 5 have legitimate shots to make it. Based on HR numbers alone, all but IRod are considered locks. I believe Barry Bonds would have made it on his own, but that wasn't enough for him. His goal was to be the greatest ever. I spelled out Palmeiro in previous post. Nuff said. Sosa is intriguing. I believe Sosa had the physical tools and talent to put together a HOF career. He chose to take the easy way out and become a slugger. Would he have had the intelligence and the dedication to utilize his talents? I highly doubt it. In my opinion, there is no way McGwire comes close without roids. IRod was a great young catcher, but the wear and tear of being catcher could have broken him down before he could have put together a HOF career. Could he have done it without roids? We'll never know. Simply put, I don't think any of these guys should get in.

[greasywheels121]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/quickie

 

 

"Credibility gap" defined:

 

3/17/05: "I have never used

steroids. Period. ... Never."

 

8/01/05: "I have never

intentionally used steroids."

 

Raff earns wrath because he didn't just test positive for steroids; first, he waggled his finger at fans and staked his claim in front of Congress.

[3E8]

Ivan Rodriguez is a HOF lock I guarantee you that.

[YASNY]

Ivan Rodriguez is a HOF lock I guarantee you that.

 

On the surface, I agree. What direction this steroid issue takes, and it's effect on the HOF remains to be seen.

[LosMediasBlancas]

These guys just say that as an excuse as to steroids not making them better.  However, if that's the case, why are these players even taking them?

 

 

The numbers don't lie either, there must be something to it.

[The Critic]

So...let's say for the sake of argument that he's been on steroids since his career took off, as alleged by Jose.

 

Most of his home runs haven't been 450 feet.  A lot have probably just cleared the fence.  So how many of those home runs would have been flyouts?  How many pitches has he hit that have just gotten over someone?  How much more playing time has he gotten because of his home run numbers?  How many balls did he hit off the wall for doubles that would have been flyouts without the extra 10 feet?  If he was 2500 hits and 100 home runs, would you vote him in?  2600 and 200?  2700 and 300?  2800 and 400?

 

Some people were saying Palmeiro shouldn't reach the hall even before this just because he never dominated a league.  This is just another wrench.  If he isn't voted in, I think the Vets committee will murder him based on this conviction too.

The thing is, though, that's a LOT of speculation for them to wade through.

I think they'll be convinced that since only 3 other guys have ever done both 3,000+ hits and 500+ HR, and since many other guys have been accused of juicing, then more guys SHOULD logically have been able to do what Palmeiro has done, since Raffy is not seen as that great of an athlete as compared to others like Canseco, etc.

I think they'll conclude that even with the "enhancement", he's done something very rare over the course of his career, and I think they'll vote him in. Not the first ballot, but in time.

Of course, I'd like to hear this:

"Mr. Palmeiro, we will NEVER knowingly vote you into the Hall Of Fame, PERIOD."

[bjm676]

Palmeiro said he may retire after this year. Frank may be forced to retire. Meaning they would be on the same ballot. Sox fandom aside, who do you think would be voted in first?

[kev211]

I got to put raffy in the hall. When deciding this you have to look at the era the players played in and compare there stats to that. We all know that raffy took steriods but what stoped anyother player to use steriods. The answer is nothing Raffy was one of the best of his era so he should be in the hall. Sadly, this era is most likely going to be called "the steriod era".

[White Sox Josh]

The thing i have to look at is how was he doing before he took roids. For example when he was with the Cubs and Texas(early in his career) he had some power but he was a singles hitter and he showed that by leading the league in singles in 1990. I think he could've gotten to 3,000 hits w/o hitting 500 HR's and taking the steroids cause the guy was a Very good hitter. And also with him hitting 14 HR's with the cubs you had to assume he would hit more HR's as he got older because he would get more power. A lot of hitters have that in that they start out as singles hitters and when they refine their stroke and stuff like that so they will hit 20-25 HR's a year maybe 30. As for Bonds he was an awesome hitter before he took steroids and he was going to be a 500/500 guy which is very very good. That is something that can't really be caused by steroids. Barry always averaged 30/40 Home Runs a year anyways and he always had a very good eye at the plate. I don't think that Sosa should go though because the only reason he is even considered a great hitter is because of the Home Runs. Before he took steroids in 1998 he had numbers very similar to Jose Valentin. .230-240 with maybe 30 HR's and you have to assume that those extra 30 HR's in 98 and 99 caused his average to go up so much.

[Art Vandelay]

Im suprised at you guys...

 

Shoeless Joe Jackson supposedly threw a WS.. banned from baseball

 

Pete Rose gambled on games as a manager.. banned from baseball

 

Rafeal Palmeiro TESTED POSITIVELY for Steroids.. 10 game suspension.

 

Excuse me?  But Palemiero deserves to live his life the same way Shoeless Joe and Pete rose did.  In agony.  Knowing he will never be where he always wants to.

 

f*** Palmiero.

 

f*** the Cheaters.

 

What he said! Are you sure we don't have the same mother?

[Chisoxfn]

What he said! Are you sure we don't have the same mother?   

So you guys must be brothers?

[Art Vandelay]

So you guys must be brothers?

 

Of course...he's Duke Vandelay!

[Benson&Rexage]

I would vote him in as well as Sosa and Big Mac.

My reason. 99% of the people in this world could take steriods and still wouldnt be able to catch up with a major league pitcher to hit it out of the park.

It really makes me sick that all these people who never played a game of baseball in their whole lives go out and pass judgement on these guys.

Steriods or not its impressive what guys like bonds do.

But I dont thinks its ok they do it but it is still impressive.

Besides its thier body and they will pay the price for taking this junk.

 

Frank is a first ballot guy becuase with all these guys jucin Frank's accomplishments are that much more impressive because there is no doubt in my mind that frank is roid free