Controversy over the Dove ads

[southsider2k5]

How many other people have seen these... what do they think?

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8813128/site/newsweek/

[LosMediasBlancas]

I've seen a couple of the billboards dowtown. I like them, but then I prefer curvy women.

[SoxFan1]

Wait....the article is arguing that the girls are too fat? What the f*** has the world come to? Man, this is unbeliebable. Not every woman is Beyonce or Jennifer Lopez of Eva Longoria. Sickening...

[mreye]

I like the ads. The first time I saw them I thought, "How clever."

 

The one on the far right...

[Queen Prawn]

I definitely like them.

 

I can't believe any man would say that a size 6 is chunky (that is supposed to be the low end of the size range of the girls), but I have read several comments to that tune.

[kapkomet]

I definitely like them.

 

I can't believe any man would say that a size 6 is chunky (that is supposed to be the low end of the size range of the girls), but I have read several comments to that tune.

I think that's ignorant and sexist to say that all girls have to be under a size 2 or they're "fat".

 

I really dislike shovenistic (sp) pigs like that.

[Steff]

Wait....the article is arguing that the girls are too fat? What the f*** has the world come to? Man, this is unbeliebable. Not every woman is Beyonce or Jennifer Lopez of Eva Longoria. Sickening...

 

 

Using those 3 as a group comparison...

[CubsSuck1]

Wait....the article is arguing that the girls are too fat? What the f*** has the world come to? Man, this is unbeliebable. Not every woman is Beyonce or Jennifer Lopez of Eva Longoria. Sickening...

 

You mean the women that you showed off in your old sig?

[Steff]

I think that's ignorant and sexist to say that all girls have to be under a size 2 or they're "fat".

 

I really dislike shovenistic (sp) pigs like that.

 

 

Ignorant for sure.. sexist.. I dunno. Men are visually stimulated. It's what moves them so I don't know if I would agree that it's a deliberate action for them to look at a female who's a size 6 and a bit curvy and say.. "she's fat".

 

I like the ads. They send a good message.

[kapkomet]

Ignorant for sure.. sexist.. I dunno. Men are visually stimulated. It's what moves them so I don't know if I would agree that it's a deliberate action for them to look at a female who's a size 6 and a bit curvy and say.. "she's fat".

 

I like the ads. They send a good message.

In and of itself, the comment isn't sexist, but most guys who make them are.

[IlliniBob72]

Wait....the article is arguing that the girls are too fat? What the f*** has the world come to? Man, this is unbeliebable. Not every woman is Beyonce or Jennifer Lopez of Eva Longoria. Sickening...

 

I'm with you. I was expecting the gist of the article to be that those women were in too GOOD of shape to be considered normal, not that they were too fat. Anyone who complains about having to see those women in their underwear has mental issues.

[3E8]

Too skinny is gross and unappealing. That said, there are way too many girls bearing midsections and wearing low rise pants who shouldn't be.

[LosMediasBlancas]

The ads are for a 'skin firming' cream. I'm not sure what that is exactly, but it sounds like the product would be for women of all sizes. I'm confused as to why they chose to use only curvier women in their ads. Unless 'skin firming cream' is just the P.C. way of saying cream that will keep your fat ass from jiggling. In which case Dove or the ad agency is full of s***.

[The Critic]

Too skinny is gross and unappealing.  That said, there are way too many girls bearing midsections and wearing low rise pants who shouldn't be.

Ahhh, the Muffin Tops!!

HA!

I love that term!!

 

I like the "real" look on a woman. Too skinny = unappealing.

[knightni]

You mean the women that you showed off in your old sig?

That was soxfan1. Not cubssuck1.

[Controlled Chaos]

Roeper wrote this regarding the ads a couple weeks ago:

 

Chunky women in their underwear have surrounded my house.

 

Billboards of chunky women, that is. If you've been downtown lately, you've no doubt noticed the ads for Dove soap, featuring regular-sized women in bras and panties. It's part of a nationwide "Campaign for Real Beauty," and it's drawing waves of attention from the media. (For a major debate on this issue that's sure to sever some friendships in our Features Department, check out Pages 44-45.)

 

There's no doubt the ads are attention-getting. Let's put it this way: this is the first time in 3,000-plus columns that I've ever mentioned Dove soap.

 

Now here's where I'm supposed to say that I find it refreshing to see "real people" on billboards, given that our culture is so obsessed with youth and beauty, and that most billboards feature impossibly gorgeous, ridiculously thin women who have been airbrushed to a level of perfection that 99.9 percent of the population can never reach.

 

But the raw truth is, I find these Dove ads a little unsettling. If I want to see plump gals baring too much skin, I'll go to Taste of Chicago, OK? I'll walk down Michigan Avenue or go to Navy Pier. When we're talking women in their underwear on billboards outside my living room windows, give me the fantasy babes, please.

 

If that makes me sound superficial, shallow and sexist -- well yes, I'm a man. And I'll have to point out that most of the men who appear on billboards and in magazines and on TV commercials are just as genetically blessed as their female counterparts.

 

 

After receiving tons of letters regarding his comments he followed up with this article:

 

Richard Roeper

Look closely -- Dove ads boast mixed messages

 

July 26, 2005

 

BY RICHARD ROEPER SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

 

 

"Chunky women in their underwear have surrounded my house. ... I find these ads a little unsettling. If I want to see plump gals baring too much skin, I'll go to Taste of Chicago, OK?

 

"When we're talking about women in their underwear on billboards outside my living room windows, give me the fantasy babes, please. If that makes me sound superficial, shallow and sexist -- well, yes, I'm a man."

 

-- From last week's column.

 

 

One little item about one ad campaign -- and I've never heard from so many angry women. Hundreds and hundreds.

 

"I can only barely contain my disgust at your insensitive and highly disturbing comments," wrote Janie Cannarella. "As a 21-year-old college student, I am constantly bombarded by a patriarchal media frenzy, shoving the idea that being thin equates to being healthy and happy and beautiful... Having you fetish-size an eating disorder is not only cruel, disgusting, and disturbing, that sort of behavior is dangerous and, frankly, immoral. ...You sicken me."

 

"You're an idiot," said Kirsten Powers, who identified herself as "a size 6 who hates Neanderthal men like you."

 

From Karen O'Malley: "Being superficial, shallow and sexist doesn't make you a man. It makes you a POOR EXCUSE for a man."

 

Temple Lentz wrote: "At least someone out there gets it. Ads are supposed to feature beautiful people. The external world should only please and entertain. Women are only valuable based on how much they please [men]. Now that it's 1905, women are getting so uppity, and that idea is getting lost. Thanks for keeping it real."

 

I think she was being sarcastic.

 

"You are an idiot," wrote Catherine Matthew. "If I wanted to hear misogynistic crap about normal-sized women being 'chunky,' I'd go to a 50 Cent concert. D'ya think perhaps these ads are aimed at WOMEN, not your sorry sexist ass? Yeah."

 

From Lyndsay Turner: "You're a sexist loser. Who made you the arbiter of female beauty? I bet you think you're funny and incisive and clever, but you're not, you're an ass who obviously has serious issues with women. As far as I'm concerned you can go to hell!"

 

"I think its so brave of you to admit that you prefer thin women in their underwear," wrote Nikki Furrer. "So few men nowadays will acknowledge their fear of strong women. They're intimidated by women. They can't think for themselves. Thank you for standing up and being the poster boy for weakling [sissies]."

 

So I'm making some new friends, which is always nice.

 

Things I Never Said ...

 

 

 

Now let's talk about what I did NOT write in the item that has generated so much controversy, even some of the e-mailers seemed to believe I did say these things.

 

I didn't express any personal bias toward normal-sized or overweight women.

 

I didn't say such women aren't attractive.

 

I didn't say they shouldn't be used in advertising campaigns.

 

I didn't endorse our culture's obsession with dieting.

 

I didn't even hint at the ridiculous notion that if you're not pencil-thin, it lessens your worth as a human being.

 

I didn't come close to implying that because of my preference for thin women in ads, I don't care about your eating disorder.

 

What I said is that I prefer to see more conventionally gorgeous women hawking beauty products.

 

That's it.

 

I have loved women -- as friends and family members -- of all shapes and sizes. I couldn't care less what they look like because I know how beautiful they are, in every way.

 

However. When it comes to being physically attracted to a woman -- yes, I have specific tastes. For that matter, so does the man who prefers plus-sized women, and the woman who prefers a certain kind of look in a man.

 

I once had a serious relationship with a woman whose image was plastered on billboards all over the country and in Mexico -- billboards for Bacardi Silver. I was initially attracted to her because of the way she looks. Can you believe that? I guess that makes me the first guy in history who asked a woman out because she's beautiful. After we got to know each other, the relationship was about so much more. And then we broke up and now we're friends, and she's still beautiful and men come up to her on the street and ask her out because that's how it works: The initial spark is usually physical.

 

And it goes both ways. I have seen women trip over themselves to get close to men who are handsome. In our society, looks will always matter, and the conventional definition of attractiveness includes a certain physical type. Yes, that's terrible and shallow and shameful -- but it's also reality.

 

Now I'd like to ask a few questions of the women who were so outraged at my comments.

 

Not so hawkish on Dove

 

 

With all the talk about the Dove ad campaign, can we take a moment to consider what they're selling? They are beauty products, and you're supposed to buy them and apply them so you can look younger, firmer and thinner.

 

As Rebecca Traister pointed out on Salon.com (italics hers): "The one little wrinkle -- so to speak -- in this ... campaign is that the set of Dove products that these real women are shilling for is cellulite firming cream. ... Yes, when I think of putting beauty in perspective for girls, mostly I think of suggesting that they shell out for three separately sold products that will temporarily make it appear that they have less cellulite."

 

In the Washington Post, Jennifer Huget wrote, "Dove Soap's new 'Campaign For Real Beauty' is planting rounder-than-usual models on billboards and in print ads. . . . A single line of text appears: 'New Dove Firming. As tested on real curves.' This, along with the models' size, suggests the products somehow restrain jiggly flesh."

 

But why would we want to do that? We're celebrating jiggly flesh! Aren't we?

 

Dove also sells products such as a Moisturizing Body Wash that "will improve skin's elasticity in just one week," an Anti-Aging Moisturizer and a Firming Lotion that will "leave skin noticeably firmer and smoother after two weeks' use."

 

If these women are so mad at me for saying I find thin women more physically attractive, they must REALLY be incensed by companies that hawk fancy products designed to make you look firmer and younger.

 

For that matter, they must be mad at the movies, TV, music videos, most advertising campaigns, the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue and every other segment of the popular culture, that celebrates thin women.

 

Not to mention women's magazines. Jessica Alba on the cover of Self, with articles such as "There's Still Time! Remake Your Shape" and "Summer Sexy Thighs & Butt." Two women who have lost a combined 173 pounds on the cover of Good Housekeeping, with articles such as, "Lose Big! Diet Secrets From Real Women" and "Dr. Phil's Simple Plan to Make You Thin." An ultra-fit model in a skimpy workout outfit on the cover of Oxygen, and articles such as, "Surgery: Free Tummy Tuck," "Lose BIG With Our Trainer to the Stars" and "Oxygen Exclusive: Weight-Loss Winner Shares the Secrets of Her Incredible Transformation."

 

I'm not the one putting these images and messages out there; I'm just a guy reacting to them.

 

I'm sorry if you're average-sized or overweight and it's made your life more difficult. I'm sorry if you or someone you loved had an eating disorder. I'm sorry we don't live in a world where everyone is judged by what's on the inside.

 

I'm not sorry for what I wrote.

 

As I said last week, the only stretch I made was in calling the Dove women "chunky." They're not really chunky.

 

I'll bet some of them probably don't weigh as much as the average adult American woman.

[LosMediasBlancas]

I wonder how women would feel about seeing average guys wearing only underwear in giant billboard ads.

I see a lot more skinny women who look like magazine ads than I do guys who look like magazine ads.

[Soxy]

You know what also pisses me off?

 

That stupid ass Ponds I think it is commercial that's like, 40 looks good, look out you 20 year olds. Something lame like that. What the hell? There's nothing worng with looking 40 if you are 40! It's just pathetic how people market to women based pretty much solely by making them feel like they have to look like someone else to be desireable. And, women's magazines--the fashion layouts on them? Jesus, it's pathetic! The women are all sprawled all over in come-hither poses that would probably make Hugh Hefner blush--expect that they're wearing some overpriced ugly ass dress. It's gross--I just want to see the dress not some provocative disgustingly posed model.

[Steff]

You know what also pisses me off?

 

That stupid ass Ponds I think it is commercial that's like, 40 looks good, look out you 20 year olds. Something lame like that. What the hell? There's nothing worng with looking 40 if you are 40! It's just pathetic how people market to women based pretty much solely by making them feel like they have to look like someone else to be desireable. And, women's magazines--the fashion layouts on them? Jesus, it's pathetic! The women are all sprawled all over in come-hither poses that would probably make Hugh Hefner blush--expect that they're wearing some overpriced ugly ass dress. It's gross--I just want to see the dress not some provocative disgustingly posed model.

 

 

I agree on that one.. also the one where the idot female says..

 

"to all you older guys who insist on dating younger women.. we want you to know that we don't miss you..."

 

Oh really.. then what's up with the stupid ass commercial telling them so..? Could Oil of Olay not found something better to spend 250K on...??

 

Commercials for beauty products are just shy of individual soft porn video's trying to pry the $$'s we don't need to spend out of our wallets.

[southsider2k5]

Roeper wrote this regarding the ads a couple weeks ago:

 

 

 

I was actually trying to remember who wrote this article to post it. This is the kind of stuff I was iritiated about in regards to this set of ads. Narrow minded bulls***.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

::Surprised the Parents TV Council and other groups aren't saying that women in their underwear is dirty and obscene:: Won't somebody please think of the children?

 

I have a few girl friends who are self-described "feminists". We went out drinking a few days ago and I was getting railed at for guys being shallow etc. etc.

 

Working into the conversation, I said "Alright then, what do you look for in a guy?" These girls then rattled off "Well, I want a guy who is really hot, works out, has a great job, plays guitar..." and just this laundry list of stuff about what he looks like and material items he has.

 

They didn't like it when I said "Wait...who's shallow?" So much of the "male patriarchy" is kept in place because women keep buying that set of goods. They affirm it when they want the guy who makes six figures, has the sports car etc. etc. This is a bad thing, as you might imagine, and it is in keeping with a pure feminist doctrine to assert that women should be attracted to more androgynous men. Or, at the very least, not play into stereotypes. The problem that most feminists don't see is that women reaffirm the system every bit as much as men do. For every man who says "damn wom'n! get you ass in hea' an bring me a sammich," there's a woman who says "ooooooh.... look at those big, powerful muscles, and nice big juicy cock/car/wallet." In effect, men are forced into the hypermasculine stereotype by women who subsequently complain that men are too dominant in our society. The vast majority of women (though not all) shy away from men that they see themselves as being more powerful than. Hence, they are fully part of the system that degrades them. Therefore, the question arises: would an average woman fall in love with a man who is shorter and poorer than she is, yet more than adequate intellectually and emotionally? The answer is generally no. Thus, our stereotypical/average woman is as much the problem as any man in society. You see, men don't want to hold women back or to be more powerful than they are -- we simply feel as though we have to.

 

As Dave Chapelle once quipped: "If a guy could get laid living in a cardboard box, he would."

[Kid Gleason]

I was actually trying to remember who wrote this article to post it.  This is the kind of stuff I was iritiated about in regards to this set of ads.  Narrow minded bulls***.

 

Irritated by Roeper, or by the replies he got? I think Roeper is dead on.

 

Ya know, when the take a picture of a hamburger for Burger King ads, the burger actually can't be eaten after the photo shoot. The amount of stuff done to food products to make them look edible is crazy. When you see the steam wafting off the burger, it is cigarette smoke blown onto the burger. Steam doesn't photograph. They they hit it with glazes, or some other gunk.

 

Cars in ads usually look great, due to lighting.

 

Things in ads are usually airbrushed to make them look better.

 

Rarely is anything in an ad natural. Hundreds of pictures are taken for one ad spot.

 

Ads are fake, usually. Anybody who believes that when they open up their Burger King Whopper that they are going to see the exact same thing in the ads is crazy.

 

I say we even the score though. I agree, we put up an underwear ad with a typical guy in his tighty whities. They had better have skid marks and holes in them though.

[Soxy]

::Surprised the Parents TV Council and other groups aren't saying that women in their underwear is dirty and obscene::  Won't somebody please think of the children? 

 

I have a few girl friends who are self-described "feminists".  We went out drinking a few days ago and I was getting railed at for guys being shallow etc. etc.

 

Working into the conversation, I said "Alright then, what do you look for in a guy?"  These girls then rattled off "Well, I want a guy who is really hot, works out, has a great job, plays guitar..." and just this laundry list of stuff about what he looks like and material items he has.

 

Yeah, we're shallow. (Haven't you people seen Average Joe? ) And it's a little bit more insidious (sp?) because women tend, a lot of the time, not to admit it. At least guys are like, she's got to have a great rack or butt or whatever.

 

Although the more mature I get, the less looks matter and I would be happy to land a guy who was satisfied with his life and having me in it.

 

Although it wouldn't hurt if he looked like Ewan McGregor.

[Soxy]

Commercials for beauty products are just shy of individual soft porn video's trying to pry the $$'s we don't need to spend out of our wallets.

No flippin joke. I can't even tell you the last time I picked up my old stand bys of Cosmo, Glamar, Elle, even Jane has gone right in the crapper.

 

If I wanted to see Porn I would read a damn Playboy--at least they have good articles.

[Kid Gleason]

Us guys never look at the physical features.

 

http://www.milbestlight.com/swf/game/game1.swf