Soxplosion Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Well, the way our team has sucked lately I have a lot to say so this post has no real structure, so Im just writing this stuff as it pops into my head. OK? -Our pitching used to rock and our hitting used to suck. Now they both suck. Team ERAs up to 4.18. Bartolo Colon is the third pitcher on our staff whos ERA has gone over four. Sorry, you may think thats fine but for our second ace to do so, I think that sucks. Esteban Loaiza collapsed against the Mariners. Yes, its only one start and hes been the best pitcher on the staff but we know he usually rocks in April and sinks a bit in May so this aint a great sign. I really think weve all been fooled by Loaiza. He does this every year. I think hell put up 15 wins (on a normal team he could get 15 but with this offense he might get like ten) and a decent ERA but dont count on these current numbers. Oh shoot, now Bartolos ERA is up to 4.40, that really sucks. -The hitting sucks. Why? I think weve just overrated them the last couple of years. This team has no speed. Well wait, correct that, we have a very unaggressive manager who doesnt take advantage of the speed he does have. Val, DJ, Ordonez, Lee and maybe Olivo could steal a lot of bases but JM doesnt use his speed. And then we have no decent lefties in the starting lineup. We have good hitters but with all the righties the opposing manager doesnt have to make critical decisions about who to bring in to face who. We see Kelly Wunsch face a single batter all the time but when have we seen someone face one guy against us? And this offense cant take advantage of opportunites. Today for instance in the first we had runners on first and third and no one out and Gil Meche continued his scoreless streak. That was against Thomas and Ordonez. If we cant count on those two, who can we count on? Then in the fifth we had one out and men on second and third and we got one freakin run! That is unnacceptable. -Our bullpen sucks. But Ill give them credit, theyre improving. Marte, Glover and Wunsch especially all look good. Tom Gordon is improving and has actually had some decent outtings. But Rick White and Koch have still been unreliable. Koch is supposed to be the closer and if he cant do his job well have to go to a closer by commitee and even tho a guy like Marte could probably do it this is what killed us last year. Marte and Glover are for the eighth, not the ninth. -Manuel is unaggressive. He does nothing. He never argues the point with an ump, he never uses our ATLEAST decent speed to give ourselves advantages and he never uses small ball to give us an advantage. Do we ever see hit and runs? No, Jerry just relies on the long ball and when thats not working were screwed. He needs to be fired and Wally Backman needs to be put in place as manager. Look at what a good aggressive manager can do for a team. Last year, the Angels had only decent talent. But with Mike Scioscia as the manager they won the World Series. They tagged up from first on fly balls from the outfield and all kinds of things, but what made them fun to watch was that one any way they could and they played good baseball. Manuel doesnt do or inspire this. If we dont slug the ball out of the park were not gonna win. -And dont blame this on Williams. He put a good team on the field but they arent performing. They have no motivation and thats JMS fault. This team hes created has talent but not will or effort. The fact that everyones doing absolutely nothing is not Kennys fault. Hes even tried to motivate them himself and since JM has refused to do so I commend KW for trying. KWs only fault is to have not yet fired Manuel, who is stopping this team from going all the way. If we fire Manuel and hire Backman, which would fire up this team perhaps, we could recover. But if not, we are in trouble. And lets say we win like 76 games this year. Do you think guys who are up for free agency next year are gonna want to come back? No way. Bartolo and Mark would be jumping off this sinking ship the first chance they get. And we definitely will suck in the years after that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 good points..except for williams....90% of this mess lie s with him..he pout the team together kenny williams took over a 95 win club with the number 1 rated farm system in all of baseball...the 2nd youngest club in the league anda 30 million dollar payroll...most baseball experts at the end of 2000 said the sox were a franchise set to do what cleveland did in the mid 90's since he took over we have gone to a 500 ball club, doubled the payroll ,the minor league system is rated 20-25th with no positions players on the horizon except borchard... kw pretty much is the epitome of mediocrity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 KW was an awful hire, no doubt bout that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 good points..except for williams....90% of this mess lie s with him..he pout the team together kenny williams took over a 95 win club with the number 1 rated farm system in all of baseball...the 2nd youngest club in the league anda 30 million dollar payroll...most baseball experts at the end of 2000 said the sox were a franchise set to do what cleveland did in the mid 90's since he took over we have gone to a 500 ball club, doubled the payroll ,the minor league system is rated 20-25th with no positions players on the horizon except borchard... kw pretty much is the epitome of mediocrity Absolutely Baggs. The blame starts with him and trickles down. I'm getting sick and tired of Sox fans saying he put all the pieces in place too. That's BS. Where's our CF for one? We are extremely weak up the middle with Jimenez. While his stick has been a pleasant surprise, his lack of range and inability to get down on groundballs while moving has been obvious. I just don't know anymore. Something need to be done..... but won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted May 5, 2003 Author Share Posted May 5, 2003 OK, when Williams took over this team, he did a couple of things. He trade Sirotka for Wells. Wells sucked for us but has Sirotka done anything since we ditched him? No, he hasnt even pitched in the bigs. Then he traded two minor leaguers for Royce Clayton. The two minor leaguers, one now with Cleveland, havent done anything. Clayton was kinda a wreck but he had a good past. You cant blame Kenny that he stunk and screwed up our team. You cant blame Kenny that Colon (to a lesser extent but hes been less than perfect), Koch, Ritchie and White all stunk when they got here. Colon had a 2.93 ERA and 20 wins last year. Koch was a 40 save closer. Ritchie had a 4.47 ERA and went 207 IP for the Pirates in '01. Rick White had an 0.82 ERA in St Louis last year. If you can say you wouldnt try to go and get these guys for your team youre lying thru your teeth. KW did what any other smart person would have done. The fact that the people who seemed reliable last year havent done their jobs this year is not his fault. He doesnt deserve the blame... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted May 5, 2003 Author Share Posted May 5, 2003 good points..except for williams....90% of this mess lie s with him..he pout the team together kenny williams took over a 95 win club with the number 1 rated farm system in all of baseball...the 2nd youngest club in the league anda 30 million dollar payroll...most baseball experts at the end of 2000 said the sox were a franchise set to do what cleveland did in the mid 90's since he took over we have gone to a 500 ball club, doubled the payroll ,the minor league system is rated 20-25th with no positions players on the horizon except borchard... kw pretty much is the epitome of mediocrity Absolutely Baggs. The blame starts with him and trickles down. I'm getting sick and tired of Sox fans saying he put all the pieces in place too. That's BS. Where's our CF for one? We are extremely weak up the middle with Jimenez. While his stick has been a pleasant surprise, his lack of range and inability to get down on groundballs while moving has been obvious. I just don't know anymore. Something need to be done..... but won't. Wasnt it Sox fans saying that we shouldnt trade Rowand because hed certainly be a star soon? Well, I guess KW listened. And again, another player we thought we could count on who we really couldnt. Its not his fault that formerly decent players suck when they come to the southside... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 good points..except for williams....90% of this mess lie s with him..he pout the team together kenny williams took over a 95 win club with the number 1 rated farm system in all of baseball...the 2nd youngest club in the league anda 30 million dollar payroll...most baseball experts at the end of 2000 said the sox were a franchise set to do what cleveland did in the mid 90's since he took over we have gone to a 500 ball club, doubled the payroll ,the minor league system is rated 20-25th with no positions players on the horizon except borchard... kw pretty much is the epitome of mediocrity Absolutely Baggs. The blame starts with him and trickles down. I'm getting sick and tired of Sox fans saying he put all the pieces in place too. That's BS. Where's our CF for one? We are extremely weak up the middle with Jimenez. While his stick has been a pleasant surprise, his lack of range and inability to get down on groundballs while moving has been obvious. I just don't know anymore. Something need to be done..... but won't. Wasnt it Sox fans saying that we shouldnt trade Rowand because hed certainly be a star soon? Well, I guess KW listened. And again, another player we thought we could count on who we really couldnt. Its not his fault that formerly decent players suck when they come to the southside... I wasn't one of those people. And Rowand starting in CF had nothing to do with KW listening to the fans. It had everything to do with $$$$$ and JR's penny-pinching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted May 5, 2003 Author Share Posted May 5, 2003 Fine so we lack a centerfielder. Find another team that has a perfect player for every position. And besides, the very competent Rios can play center but he isnt in there consistently. Is that KWs fault? Nope. Thats JMs decision, and if he fails to make the smart decision (put Rios in center) he should take the blame... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Fine so we lack a centerfielder. Find another team that has a perfect player for every position. And besides, the very competent Rios can play center but he isnt in there consistently. Is that KWs fault? Nope. Thats JMs decision, and if he fails to make the smart decision (put Rios in center) he should take the blame... Some on this board in the know would tell you that KW calling the shots..... not JM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 It is an insult to everyone if JM isn't fired tonight. We lose five of six to Oak and the M's. We suck and will draw no crowds this summer. Bye bye JM. Firing KW would do the trick, also, but I assume this won't happen for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Some on this board in the know would tell you that KW calling the shots..... not JM. LOL in the know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 LOL in the know? This happens all the time, look to the UC and see the feud between Sutter and Smith/Pulford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 good points..except for williams....90% of this mess lie s with him..he pout the team together kenny williams took over a 95 win club with the number 1 rated farm system in all of baseball...the 2nd youngest club in the league anda 30 million dollar payroll...most baseball experts at the end of 2000 said the sox were a franchise set to do what cleveland did in the mid 90's since he took over we have gone to a 500 ball club, doubled the payroll ,the minor league system is rated 20-25th with no positions players on the horizon except borchard... kw pretty much is the epitome of mediocrity Absolutely Baggs. The blame starts with him and trickles down. I'm getting sick and tired of Sox fans saying he put all the pieces in place too. That's BS. Where's our CF for one? We are extremely weak up the middle with Jimenez. While his stick has been a pleasant surprise, his lack of range and inability to get down on groundballs while moving has been obvious. I just don't know anymore. Something need to be done..... but won't. I think the blame for this cluster f*** of a season starts higher than kw. Yes kw does suck but jr is the guy that is not firing his sorry ass. If JR cared about winning half as much as he claims to he would have done something about this situation by now. Come on JR do something or sell this team to someone who gives a f***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Fine so we lack a centerfielder. Find another team that has a perfect player for every position. And besides, the very competent Rios can play center but he isnt in there consistently. Is that KWs fault? Nope. Thats JMs decision, and if he fails to make the smart decision (put Rios in center) he should take the blame... The Twins aren't perfect....but I guarantee you that you can't find me a hole on their team. They are very deep in the OF...they are deep in the IF....they have solid starting pitching, and a killer bullpen. They also play fundamental baseball, which is an added bonus. The firing of Manuel would do many things....but the hiring of a guy that stresses fundamentals would bring us up to the umpteenth potential. We obviously need more team speed....a guy that can do a lot of things with his speed. Those guys you mentioned....Valentin, Lee, Maggs, DJ, and Olivo...they can't do that. Guys like Ray-Ray, Stewart, Harris....those are the guys who do it. One thing though....you can win with very little to no speed. The A's last year, before Durham, had no speed whatsoever. They played Earl Weaver ball...and still do play Earl Weaver ball. The difference between them and us is the fact that they play fundamental baseball....they make the plays you need to make and then some....they hit the cutoff man, they hit the ball to the right side to advance runners, they get sac flies, they bunt when necessary....they do more then we do. If not for our strong pitching....right now...we'd be in the cellar....probably not as bad as Detroit...but worse than Cleveland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 roman go back to eating pencils...... and start with the one that kw uses to make up the daily lineup card.............maybe jm can do his job for a change while kw will be out shoppin for office supplies....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 roman go back to eating pencils...... and start with the one that kw uses to make up the daily lineup card.............maybe jm can do his job for a change while kw will be out shoppin for office supplies....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Will he cry at the press conference that announces his firing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Will he cry at the press conference that announces his firing? nope im sure he wont....prolly be glad hes away from kw.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I'm trying to think of when another pro sports team took so long to pull the trigger to fire the manager/coach when it was so obvious that that was what was called for. Cubs/Baylor perhaps? So I should rephrase the question to some team outside of Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I'm trying to think of when another pro sports team took so long to pull the trigger to fire the manager/coach when it was so obvious that that was what was called for. Cubs/Baylor perhaps? So I should rephrase the question to some team outside of Chicago. try the mccaskey's with wanstadt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 kw won't fire jm because he has no guarantee that he can find another guy who will let him run the whole show. At least that is the only reason that I can think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 try the mccaskey's with wanstadt Bingo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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