Ozzie's odd use of the bullpen today

[VAfan]

I think Ozzie has been doing some very odd things with his bullpen lately. Today was a good example.

 

First, going to the bullpen to start the 6th in a 1-run game was the right thing. Contreras was above 100 pitches, but barely escaped with the lead in the 5th.

 

Second, why was Cotts the 6th inning choice? The way I rank the bullpen, from the 9th inning backward, is Hermanson, Politte, Cotts, Vizcaino/Marte, Jenks, Adkins. Instead, Ozzie seems to value Vizcaino and Marte more highly than Cotts and Politte, which, based on performance, is absurd.

 

In the 6th, with the bottom of Toronto's lineup up, why didn't Vizcaino/Marte get chosen, with either one allowed to finish the inning if they were getting guys out? Then you have Cotts 7th, Politte 8th, Hermanson 9th.

 

Third, why was Cotts yanked after getting two outs? Why was Politte yanked after getting two outs? The result was that Politte had to stradle two innings, as did Marte. Why not treat each Cotts, Politte, and Hermanson as 1-inning closers for the inning they are given? Cotts gets righties out better than lefties, so that shouldn't be a reason to sit him.

 

I'm glad we won the game. But I sure would like Ozzie to manage his bullpen better. This will be his most important task in the postseason, and how he handles it may make all the difference between first round losers and World Series champions.

Edited August 4, 2005 by VAfan

[Kalapse]

Lately, people have been b****ing about the way he uses the bullpen all year. :banghead

 

Oh yeah and Cotts only facing a few batters has been just about the #1 complaint.

[Balance]

Cotts has shown that he's able to get guys out on both sides of the plate. I think Ozzie needs to leave him in longer, and not yank him in exchange for Marte or Vizcaino.

[winninguglyin83]

I agree about Cotts facing more hitters.

 

He can easily go an inning.

 

and I'd like to see Jenks get a chance one of these games with something on the line.

 

I realize Ozzie is bringing him along slowly, putting him in situations where he has a better chance to succeed, primarily to build his confidence.

 

But with the lead we have, why not try him in a situation where every pitch counts?

 

He did well in that situation against KC last week.

[White Sox Josh]

Does Ozzie actually look at the stat sheets in. Because if he did he would realize that marte can't get lefties out.

[DBAHO]

Does Ozzie actually look at the stat sheets in.  Because if he did he would realize that marte can't get lefties out.

The problem is we don't have many relievers who can get lefties out. Cotts is better against righties. Viz has been hammered against lefties (which was supposed to be his strength). Jenks has been wonderful against lefties, but they're not going to bring him in just to get 1 lefty out. They need to give Marte work to find his groove again against lefties, and there's gonna be some speed bumps along the way, but the potential reward is there for everyone to see. A healthy and dominant Marte equals one of the top 5 LH relievers in baseball.

[White Sox Josh]

The problem is we don't have many relievers who can get lefties out. Cotts is better against righties. Viz has been hammered against lefties (which was supposed to be his strength). Jenks has been wonderful against lefties, but they're not going to bring him in just to get 1 lefty out. They need to give Marte work to find his groove again against lefties, and there's gonna be some speed bumps along the way, but the potential reward is there for everyone to see. A healthy and dominant Marte equals one of the top 5 LH relievers in baseball.

but lefties are still hitting only .219 against cotts. I think last year Vizcaino was very good against lefties and brutal against righties. Politte has gotten everybody out. Marte has been brutal this year. .379 OBP against him. he has been the Sox worst reliever with the exception of Walker. He has also been the sox luckiest reliever.

[DBAHO]

but lefties are still hitting only .219 against cotts.  I think last year Vizcaino was very good against lefties and brutal against righties.  Politte has gotten everybody out.  Marte has been brutal this year.  .379 OBP against him.  he has been the Sox worst reliever with the exception of Walker.  He has also been the sox luckiest reliever.

Cotts is also .120 against righties. If the choice comes up whether to use for a whole inning, or just to get a lefty out, they'll go with the whole inning (or at least they should, which they haven't been doing lately).

 

The point is we don't really have a lefty LOOGY on this team, and we're not likely to get one. Yes Marte has struggled, yes he's been lucky. But he's also been injured, and he just needs some work to get that control back. It's worth him to continue pitching to lefties, to get that dominance back.

[the People's Champ]

QUOTE(VAfan @ Aug 4, 2005 -> 05:02 PM)

I think Ozzie has been doing some very odd things with his bullpen lately.  Today was a good example. 

 

First, going to the bullpen to start the 6th in a 1-run game was the right thing.  Contreras was above 100 pitches, but barely escaped with the lead in the 5th.

 

Second, why was Cotts the 6th inning choice?  The way I rank the bullpen, from the 9th inning backward, is Hermanson, Politte, Cotts, Vizcaino/Marte, Jenks, Adkins.  Instead, Ozzie seems to value Vizcaino and Marte more highly than Cotts and Politte, which, based on performance, is absurd. 

 

In the 6th, with the bottom of Toronto's lineup up, why didn't Vizcaino/Marte get chosen, with either one allowed to finish the inning if they were getting guys out?  Then you have Cotts 7th, Politte 8th, Hermanson 9th. 

 

Third, why was Cotts yanked after getting two outs?  Why was Politte yanked after getting two outs?  The result was that Politte had to stradle two innings, as did Marte.  Why not treat each Cotts, Politte, and Hermanson as 1-inning closers for the inning they are given?  Cotts gets righties out better than lefties, so that shouldn't be a reason to sit him. 

 

I'm glad we won the game.  But I sure would like Ozzie to manage his bullpen better.  This will be his most important task in the postseason, and how he handles it may make all the difference between first round losers and World Series champions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree. Had Gooch not hit that homerun and we had to go a few more innings we would have been screwed!!

[elrockinMT]

I think Ozzie has been doing some very odd things with his bullpen lately.  Today was a good example. 

 

First, going to the bullpen to start the 6th in a 1-run game was the right thing.  Contreras was above 100 pitches, but barely escaped with the lead in the 5th.

 

Second, why was Cotts the 6th inning choice?  The way I rank the bullpen, from the 9th inning backward, is Hermanson, Politte, Cotts, Vizcaino/Marte, Jenks, Adkins.  Instead, Ozzie seems to value Vizcaino and Marte more highly than Cotts and Politte, which, based on performance, is absurd. 

 

In the 6th, with the bottom of Toronto's lineup up, why didn't Vizcaino/Marte get chosen, with either one allowed to finish the inning if they were getting guys out?  Then you have Cotts 7th, Politte 8th, Hermanson 9th. 

 

Third, why was Cotts yanked after getting two outs?  Why was Politte yanked after getting two outs?  The result was that Politte had to stradle two innings, as did Marte.  Why not treat each Cotts, Politte, and Hermanson as 1-inning closers for the inning they are given?  Cotts gets righties out better than lefties, so that shouldn't be a reason to sit him. 

 

I'm glad we won the game.  But I sure would like Ozzie to manage his bullpen better.  This will be his most important task in the postseason, and how he handles it may make all the difference between first round losers and World Series champions.

 

 

Ozzie was managing by his gut again today and it was obviously grumbling.

 

Edited August 5, 2005 by elrockinMT

[Harry Chappas]

The problem is we don't have many relievers who can get lefties out. Cotts is better against righties. Viz has been hammered against lefties (which was supposed to be his strength). Jenks has been wonderful against lefties, but they're not going to bring him in just to get 1 lefty out. They need to give Marte work to find his groove again against lefties, and there's gonna be some speed bumps along the way, but the potential reward is there for everyone to see. A healthy and dominant Marte equals one of the top 5 LH relievers in baseball.

 

We haven't seen this pitcher in almost two years.

 

I think Ozzie is trying to get the unknowns (Blum, Viz, Marte) situations where he can see how they perform. Why he isn't doing this with Jenks is beyond me. Why he wasn't asked about his use of the bullpen is another mystery. Marte was lucky to get out of the 7th and it cost him in the 8th. I'd rather have seen Viz or Jenks start the 8th but yesterday was diffenitly odd. I think Ozzie thought we would score in th 6th or 7th on their bullpen and make it easier at the end with a bigger lead.

[southsider2k5]

I swear it doesn't matter what he does, people complain. Ozzie managed this game to win this game. He wanted to make sure we did not get swept, which is a departure for his normal manage to win the season technique. Plain and simple he wanted to win this game, and he put his best pitchers out there to do so.

[YASNY]

Considering the overall performance of the bullpen, I cannot understand how anybody can complain about Ozzie's bullpen management.

[Al Lopez Ghost (old)]

I thought the oddest thing was the use of Politte so much earlier than he's been used for the last couple of months.

[DBAHO]

We haven't seen this pitcher in almost two years.

I disagree with that statement. Yess Marte has been shaky, but at times this season we've seen him look like his old dominant self, it just hasn't happened as often as we would like.

[3 BeWareTheNewSox 5]

I didn't get him using the same pitchers as the night before, with a day game after a night game, especially Marte for extended time, who already has control issues. Where is Jenks?

[VAfan]

I think Ozzie thought we would score in th 6th or 7th on their bullpen and make it easier at the end with a bigger lead.

 

This what I thought too.

 

The best news out of our pen is that Vizcaino is reliable for the first time this year, and he loves work. So Ozzie should use him and save Cotts/Politte/Hermanson as much as he can.

 

The bad news is the Marte appears lost. But is it fatigue or underuse that is his problem? He was great the last time he came off the DL, but only for a game or two. Should we rest him or use him? I don't know. All I know is we need to rehab him by October because when he's on, he's unhittable.

 

Otherwise, bringing Jenks along is the other key thing.

[White Sox Josh]

This what I thought too. 

 

The best news out of our pen is that Vizcaino is reliable for the first time this year, and he loves work.  So Ozzie should use him and save Cotts/Politte/Hermanson as much as he can.

 

The bad news is the Marte appears lost.  But is it fatigue or underuse that is his problem?  He was great the last time he came off the DL, but only for a game or two.  Should we rest him or use him?  I don't know.  All I know is we need to rehab him by October because when he's on, he's unhittable.

 

Otherwise, bringing Jenks along is the other key thing.

No i sort of think that hitters have figured out Marte. The thing with Marte is just be patient and don't swing at the slurve and if you do that he will either walk you or have to put one right down the middle. His fastball is very average. The one other thing that Marte has done is that he has bad mechanics. Farmer has mentioned this a couple times and after watching him closely i've seen it to. Marte throws across his body which is not a good thing. THat puts a lot of stress on his arm and it's also one of the reasons that he walks a lot of guys because when he is doing this he uses his arm so much that he basiclly is pitching with his arm and anyone who has pitched before knows that you have to use your legs to. Marte has gotten away with it in 02 and 03 however he it is starting to really hurt him now.

[White Sox Josh]

I honestly think the Sox should trade Marte. His value is still very high considering teams will look at his era and think he is still good. You can get a whole lot for marte and if you put him through waivers a lot of teams will claim him. The marlins would claim him and the Sox could work out a deal.

[elrockinMT]

If you have picthers in the pen you use them I guess. You can't always use the same guy over and over every day. I hope that Vicaino is coming around, but he and Shingo, when Shingo was here, were terrible. That was not good to have 2 relief pitchers being ineffective. Politte and Cotts have been fantastic. Hermanson has been very very solid, but that back problem is a nagging concern. Marte has been inconsistent. Absolutely lights out when he throws strikes and not so good when he doesn't. Jenks and Adkins are showing some good stuff.

 

Anyway, you have what you have and you use them as needed. I think Ozzie said before he might use anyone as the closer and it just counted on the situation whenever and whoever he used out of the pen.

[White Sox Josh]

I think Marte this year has also taught us how ERA is one of the worst stats to judge relievers on.

Edited August 5, 2005 by White Sox Josh

[WHarris1]

I honestly think the Sox should trade Marte.  His value is still very high considering teams will look at his era and think he is still good.

I'm pretty sure you don't see something with Marte that other GM's don't see.