Official College Football Thread

[Fotop]

So I'm tired, just got back in from the Fiesta Bowl...but I figured I'd drop a response here. Had a great time, and the bowl should get even better when they move into the new stadium next year.

 

A few comments on the game: OSU had a decisive advantage on the talent end, especially in the speed department. I had said all along that if we were to win this game we were going to have to stop Troy Smith. That of course didn't happen. ND did not play well, the defense was exposed, especially the thin secondary w/safeties who can't really cover (something many of us have pointed out all year). That isn't to say ND didn't have their shots, multiple long passes were just off and open deep receivers weren't hit. Officiating wasn't great, but it defintely wasn't the difference. Credit goes out to OSU, they are a great football team and were the better team today.

 

 

 

Moving on to the discussion at hand...

 

S 02 @ Georgia Tech

S 09 PENN STATE

S 16 MICHIGAN

S 23 @ Michigan St.

S 30 PURDUE

O 07 STANFORD

O 21 UCLA

O 28 @ Navy (Baltimore)

N 04 NORTH CAROLINA

N 11 @ Air Force

N 18 ARMY

N 25 @ Southern Cal

 

Well North Carolina isn't any good, that's a sure win at home....ND has beaten Navy 100 times in a row, home vs. Army is an auto win, at Air Force should definitely be a win, Stanford at home should be no problem, Purdue isn't exactly a powerhouse.....

 

That schedule isn't exactly anywhere near the level an SEC team has to face, or even a Big 10 team for that matter.

 

Let's look at some "tough" big 10/sec schedules shall we?

 

PURDUE FOOTBALL

09/02/06 Indiana St

09/09/06 Miami (Ohio)

09/16/06 Ball State

09/23/06 Minnesota

09/30/06 at Notre Dame

10/07/06 at Iowa

10/14/06 at Northwestern

10/21/06 Wisconsin

10/28/06 Penn State

11/04/06 at Michigan St

11/11/06 at Illinois

11/18/06 Indiana

11/25/06 at Hawaii

 

Man, that's a friggin' gauntlet. :rolly

 

How about this one:

 

LSU 2006 Football Schedule

Sept 02 UL-Lafayette

Sept 09 Arizona

Sept 16 TBA

Sept 23 open

Sept 30 Mississippi State

Oct 07 @Florida

Oct 14 Kentucky

Oct 21 @Auburn

Nov 04 @Tennessee

Nov 11 Alabama

Nov 18 Ole Miss

Nov 26 Arkansas

 

That's a little better...I mean they DO play four real teams (fla, auburn, tenn, alabama).

 

So the point is, how does playing @GT, PSU, UMICH, @SC, not stack up with these schedules? I just don't buy the whole "if you're not in a conference your schedule sucks" argument.

 

I mean it's blantantly obvious that people that hate ND are in the majority here...but really common sense goes a long way. I try to hold my bias in check as much as I can as I try to analyize things, and I think many try to as well but really now this argument is pretty damn weak. Much like the ND is overrated/didn't deserve a BCS bid argument but I think others have already established that as bulls***...hell Auburn and Oregon established this without discussion.

 

I think the moral of the season as a whole is that ND haters need to accept the fact that ND is moving in the right direction (some might argue rapidly), while the ND supporters need to realize there's still a ways before claiming next year's title (mainly finding a secondary and a pass rush).

[Rex Hudler]

The second half is 50 percent of who the team is, they may have been playing good at the time, but they are not a good team.  And their games early count as much as the games late.

 

You just don't get it. Maybe the light will come on at some random point in the future, who knows, but I am not going to argue until I am blue in the face.

[ilsox7]

You just don't get it.  Maybe the light will come on at some random point in the future, who knows, but I am not going to argue until I am blue in the face.

 

Here's my question, and I mean it sincerely. I completely agree that a team can be playing better at one point in the season and then totally go in the tank, thus making what was once a not a bad loss look awful 2 months later. But what no one has had an answer for is why they think MSU was one of those teams. When you look at the facts, they had not played anyone near respectable. They had dominated 2 pretty awful teams. If they had throttled at least 1 decent team, I could see the argument. But how is this any different than, say, a college basketball team beating the crap out of Chicago State and NIU and claiming they were a good team b/c they looked good against two horrid opponents?

 

That's the argument I have made and I have yet to see an answer that satisfies it. The only thing I keep getting is, "Well, they looked good doing it." My response is, "I sure as hell hope they did b/c those teams sucked."

 

Here are the scores from their games this year:

 

Beat Kent State (1-10) 49-14

Beat Hawaii (5-7) 42-14

Beat ND (9-2) 44-41

Lost to Michigan (7-4) 34-31

Lost to tOSU (9-2) 35-24

Lost to NU (7-4) 49-14

Beat IU (4-7) 46-15

Lost to Purdue (5-6) 28-21

Lost to Minnesota (7-4) 41-18

Lost to PSU (10-1) 31-22

 

Like I said, if they had beaten a decent team or two before or after ND, I could see the argument that they were simply playing better and something happened to send them on a horrific streak the last part of the season. But I just don't see that argument.

Edited January 3, 2006 by ilsox7

[Wedge]

S 02 @ Georgia Tech

S 09 PENN STATE

S 16 MICHIGAN

S 23 @ Michigan St.

S 30 PURDUE

O 07 STANFORD

O 21 UCLA

O 28 @ Navy (Baltimore)

N 04 NORTH CAROLINA

N 11 @ Air Force

N 18 ARMY

N 25 @ Southern Cal

 

Well North Carolina isn't any good, that's a sure win at home....ND has beaten Navy 100 times in a row, home vs. Army is an auto win, at Air Force should definitely be a win, Stanford at home should be no problem, Purdue isn't exactly a powerhouse.....

 

That schedule isn't exactly anywhere near the level an SEC team has to face, or even a Big 10 team for that matter.

 

Let's compare ND and UM's 2006 schedules, shall we?

 

ND:

@ Georgia Tech

PENN STATE

MICHIGAN

@ Michigan St.

PURDUE

STANFORD

UCLA

@ Navy (Baltimore)

NORTH CAROLINA

@ Air Force

ARMY

@ Southern Cal

 

Michigan:

BALL STATE

CENTRAL MICHIGAN

@ Notre Dame

WISCONSIN

@ Minnesota

MICHIGAN STATE

@ Penn State

IOWA

NORTHWESTERN

@ Indiana

@ Ohio State

 

Common opponents:

Michigan State

Penn State

 

Michigan might have a very slight edge here, but that's debatable. If PSU is a tough team, then it is a slight edge for ND to play PSU at ND. If PSU is crappy like the last few years again, I think it's a wash.

 

I'm also obviously throwing out ND vs. Michigan.

 

I'll break down the list further:

 

ND Non-BCS opponents

@ Navy

ARMY

@ Air Force

 

UM Non-BCS opponents

BALL STATE

CENTRAL MICHIGAN

@ Indiana (explanation, I know they're Big 10)

 

all right, so I took out the Non-BCS opponents and both play some patsies. I think @ Navy and @ Indiana is roughly equal, despite Indiana being a BCS team.

 

ND BCS opponents

@ Georgia Tech

PURDUE

STANFORD

UCLA

NORTH CAROLINA

@ Southern Cal

 

UM BCS opponents

WISCONSIN

@ Minnesota

IOWA

NORTHWESTERN

@ Ohio State

 

The big season ending road games are both toughies against big rivals. These will be both teams' most difficult opponents. USC has been a dynasty lately, so if it's not a push, it has to be an edge to ND. I realize USC loses some people, but by the end of the season, Carroll will have his ducks in a row and ready to go.

 

The next best team for ND is either @ GTech or UCLA, where UM next best are WISC or IOWA. Both are home games for UM and I think GTech and UCLA are both better teams than WISC and IOWA. I think that's a pretty clear edge to ND.

 

Purdue and @ Minnesota are a pretty equal, so either a push or a slight edge to UM.

 

I think Stanford and Northwestern are pretty similar teams, although NU graduates its QB and Stanford will have a pretty good one coming back, push or slight edge to ND.

 

ND plays a 12th game in UNC. A patsy, but another chance for someone to get hurt.

 

In conclusion, I think that ND's 2006 schedule is very favorable to a typical Big 10 schedule on paper. I think that ND has some more challenges in that they play teams from a variety of conferences, thus they have to handle many different styles of play.

[RockRaines]

Here's my question, and I mean it sincerely.  I completely agree that a team can be playing better at one point in the season and then totally go in the tank, thus making what was once a not a bad loss look awful 2 months later.  But what no one has had an answer for is why they think MSU was one of those teams.  When you look at the facts, they had not played anyone near respectable.  They had dominated 2 pretty awful teams.  If they had throttled at least 1 decent team, I could see the argument.  But how is this any different than, say, a college basketball team beating the crap out of Chicago State and NIU and claiming they were a good team b/c they looked good against two horrid opponents?

 

That's the argument I have made and I have yet to see an answer that satisfies it.  The only thing I keep getting is, "Well, they looked good doing it."  My response is, "I sure as hell hope they did b/c those teams sucked." 

 

Here are the scores from their games this year:

 

Beat Kent State (1-10) 49-14

Beat Hawaii (5-7) 42-14

Beat ND (9-2) 44-41

Lost to Michigan (7-4) 34-31

Lost to tOSU (9-2) 35-24

Lost to NU (7-4) 49-14

Beat IU (4-7) 46-15

Lost to Purdue (5-6) 28-21

Lost to Minnesota (7-4) 41-18

Lost to PSU (10-1) 31-22

 

Like I said, if they had beaten a decent team or two before or after ND, I could see the argument that they were simply playing better and something happened to send them on a horrific streak the last part of the season.  But I just don't see that argument.

maybe YOUR "light" hasnt come on yet either

 

Seriously Rex, MSU was NOT GOOD.

[whitesoxfan101]

The defense of the schedule by you ND homers is mind boggling. Just look at it from a neutral perspective please?? Notre Dame plays a good schedule, but it simply doesn't have the depth and difficulty of the schedule a team like Georgia or even Iowa has to deal with.

[Wedge]

The defense of the schedule by you ND homers is mind boggling.  Just look at it from a neutral perspective please??  Notre Dame plays a good schedule, but it simply doesn't have the depth and difficulty of the schedule a team like Georgia or even Iowa has to deal with.

 

I'm disappointed in you. You just blindly say it's nowhere near Iowa's or Georgia's. You're lazy, so I'll do the work on this one, I guess. I did a pretty good analysis of ND's schedule against Michigan's.

 

 

ND:

@ Georgia Tech

PENN STATE

MICHIGAN

Michigan St.

PURDUE

STANFORD

UCLA

@ Navy (Baltimore)

NORTH CAROLINA

@ Air Force

ARMY

@ Southern Cal

 

Iowa:

TBD

at Syracuse

Iowa State

at Illinois

Ohio State

Purdue (HC)

at Indiana

at Michigan

TBD

Northwestern (FW)

Wisconsin (FA/S)

at Minnesota

 

Georgia:

Western Kentucky

@ South Carolina

UAB

Colorado

Mississippi State

Tennessee

Vanderbilt

@ Mississippi

vs. Florida @Jacksonville, FL

@ Auburn

@ Kentucky

Georgia Tech

 

 

OK, ND vs Iowa:

 

Patsies

Air Force, Army, Navy, NC vs. Syracuse, Iowa State, Illinois, Indiana

 

Navy and Iowa State both had pretty good seasons in 2005 and are traditional rivals for both teams. For the most part, none of the other teams showed a pulse in 2006. WASH

 

 

Middle of the Pack

MSU, Purdue, Stanford vs. Northwestern, Minnesota, Purdue

 

Pretty even match here, although NU will probably have a down season in 2006 compared to 2005 and Stanford should improve a bit. MSU will be their typical schizophrenic selves. WASH

 

Pretty Good Teams

Michigan, UCLA, GTech vs. Michigan, Wisconsin

 

Both play Michigan, although Iowa goes to the Big House to play. Still, ND faces more teams in this category than Iowa does, so edge ND.

 

Top Tier Teams

USC, PSU vs. OSU

 

At USC at the end of the year is a nightmare, even if they aren't NC caliber. The OSU game is at home for Iowa, so this is definitely an edge to ND.

 

Thus, I think ND's schedule is harder than Iowa's in 2006.

 

Let's do ND vs. Georgia:

 

Patsies

Air Force, Army, Navy, NC vs. Western Kentucky, UAB, Mississippi St., Kentucky

 

Both teams play some bottom feeders, although in this group Navy is the only 2005 Bowl team, but ND has beat them for a long time standing. We'll call it a WASH.

 

Middle of the Pack

MSU, Purdue, Stanford vs. Mississippi, Colorado, Vandy, Tennessee

 

Vandy and Mississippi are tough to categorize precisely, but I put them in this category. Tennessee is a real wild card for 2006, roughly the same as MSU for ND. We'll call it a WASH.

 

Pretty Good Teams

Michigan, UCLA, GTech vs. GTech, South Carolina, Florida

 

GT is a home game for the Bulldogs, but a road game for the Irish. Florida looked awful at times and great at times in 2006. I'll call this a WASH as well.

 

Top Tier Teams

USC, PSU vs. Auburn

 

Auburn is tough, but the numbers here favor the Irish.

 

Happy? I think both are pretty legit cases for why ND's schedule compares favorably to a lot of conference schedules.

[Pierzynski 12]

Santonio Holmes to enter NFL Draft

 

TEMPE, Ariz. -- Minutes after catching five passes for 124 yards and a touchdown in the Fiesta Bowl, Ohio State wide receiver Santonio Holmes told reporters on the field that he was entering his name into the NFL draft.

 

Holmes (No. 4) celebrated with the Buckeyes and then declared his intentions to enter the NFL.

As Holmes was talking, fellow receiver Roy Hall yelled behind him, "You're going to the league!"

 

Holmes is a fourth-year junior. His announcement after the Buckeyes defeated Notre Dame 34-20 did not seem to come as a surprise to coach Jim Tressel.

 

"He's a fourth-year guy, well along toward his degree," Tressel said. "I think he's proven that it's time to move along.

 

"I tell all our players that if you're a first-round pick, you should go. And Santonio is going to be a first-round draft pick."

 

Quarterback Troy Smith said, "It's time for him to step up and go to another level."

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/bowls05/news/story?id=2278409

[Chisoxfn]

Where are all the ND trolls?????  Time to eat some crow!!!!!!!

Dude, I'm a ND backer and I often times said I felt you guys were the better team. I hated this matchup but I thought it was going to be a hell of a game. We made some mistakes and I think the game could have been closer, but your speed got us in the end.

 

Tough loss for the Irish but quite frankly we didn't execute like we should have and you proved why talent wise your one of the 3 best teams in the country (and will be in the polls when the season ends).

 

Oh as far as Iowa goes, they made two dumbass mistakes and obviously there defense had some trouble but that game wasn't near the blowout it should have been. Iowa was able to shred Florida's d pretty much all game but failed a few times. They played terrible and deserved to lose.

 

Those calls at the end of the half were horrendous and led to a Florida TD (when Iowa would have had a shot at really cutting things) but at the same time Iowa didn't protect on that 1st punt and they threw a pick for a TD. Thats there own fault.

 

Florida is a good team and while It sucked both my teams lost (plus the Bulls) I will not stand down that both Notre Dame and Iowa are good teams. Iowa had a lot of problems this year, but they are still in my mind one of the 25 best in the country (but yes, I was dead wrong about them having a good season, there green defensive front didn't allow them to have a good defense because they rely on getting pressure and when they can't get pressure they get toasted).

[RockRaines]

On another note, that offsides in the IOWA/FLA game on the onside kick was a horses*** call.

[Chisoxfn]

On another note, that offsides in the IOWA/FLA game on the onside kick was a horses*** call.

The game was full of thm. It was pathetic. That said Iowa put themselves in that position, but they certainly didn't get any calls. Plus did anyone see that one 1st down they got in the game. They got a yard and a half favorable spot. It should have been essentially a no gain. Of course Iowa stopped them on that drive.

 

Iowa dug themselves into a deep hole and they had help from the refs, but they did a lot of it on there own. They don't fall behind so badly early (which was there own fault) and they probably win the game.

[Heads22]

As far as the Iowa game....

 

Is offsides when any part of your body is over the LOS or something is touching the ground....it looked like Greenway's arm might have been over the line, but you can't tell from that angle.

 

Pretty cheap call, still.

[Heads22]

Patsies

Air Force, Army, Navy, NC vs. Syracuse, Iowa State, Illinois, Indiana

 

Navy and Iowa State both had pretty good seasons in 2005 and are traditional rivals for both teams. For the most part, none of the other teams showed a pulse in 2006. WASH

 

 

Until Iowa can beat ISU consistently that's not a given win for them. It's been one of Ferentz's few problems.

[Chisoxfn]

Until Iowa can beat ISU consistently that's not a given win for them. It's been one of Ferentz's few problems.

Ya, ISU is not a given win. Thats a big time rivalry game and Iowa has struggled to play with the same intensity the Clones have in those games.

 

McCarney is a good head coach and ISU is a solid football program. However, they have failed to win the big game the past two years and he's going to have to get those big wins (especially while there side of the conference has been down) cause its about to get a lot tougher for them (since it really looks like Nebraska is turning the corner).

 

Also, North Carolina has been making some noise on the football end and I think Palehosefan would agree with that (the resident UNC fan). They have failed to turn into a top notch football program but to call them a cupcake would be wrong.

[Wedge]

Until Iowa can beat ISU consistently that's not a given win for them. It's been one of Ferentz's few problems.

 

You're probably right in that regards, so we can maybe move them up a category, but even then I don't think it effects the outcome of the analysis too much.

[Heads22]

Ya, ISU is not a given win.  Thats a big time rivalry game and Iowa has struggled to play with the same intensity the Clones have in those games. 

 

McCarney is a good head coach and ISU is a solid football program.  However, they have failed to win the big game the past two years and he's going to have to get those big wins (especially while there side of the conference has been down) cause its about to get a lot tougher for them (since it really looks like Nebraska is turning the corner).

 

Also, North Carolina has been making some noise on the football end and I think Palehosefan would agree with that (the resident UNC fan).  They have failed to turn into a top notch football program but to call them a cupcake would be wrong.

 

I'm almost done with McCarney. We need that guy who can take us to the next level, not the guy that s***s himself in OT (0-8 alltime).

[RockRaines]

The game was full of thm.  It was pathetic.  That said Iowa put themselves in that position, but they certainly didn't get any calls.  Plus did anyone see that one 1st down they got in the game.  They got a yard and a half favorable spot.  It should have been essentially a no gain.  Of course Iowa stopped them on that drive.

 

Iowa dug themselves into a deep hole and they had help from the refs, but they did a lot of it on there own.  They don't fall behind so badly early (which was there own fault) and they probably win the game.

I felt that during the entire weekend there were alot of horrible performances by the officials.

[Palehosefan]

Also, North Carolina has been making some noise on the football end and I think Palehosefan would agree with that (the resident UNC fan). They have failed to turn into a top notch football program but to call them a cupcake would be wrong.

 

Carolina is far from a cupcake for anyone now. UNC played the toughest schedule in the nation last year and went 5-6, but could have won any of the 6 losses except Louisville. UNC was leading Miami at the half 16-7, and should have been up 23-7 at the half if Pollack didn't drop a wide open touchdown pass. UNC was down 6-3 at the half against VT, and should have been up 10-6 at the very least when Jesse Holley dropped yet another wide open TD pass before the half.

 

UNC defeated Utah, NC State, Virginia, and Boston College who were all bowl teams. The administration has finally gotten serious about football, and hired Marvin Sanders two years ago after Marvin coached his Huskers secondary to lead the nation in interceptions. Kansas State and Texas A&M tried their best to hire him away as their DC's about a month ago, but he was loyal. Then yesterday UNC fans got even better news when we learned that we hired away OC/QB coach for Fresno State Frank Cignetti, who was one of the hottest OC commodities in the college ranks.

 

UNC won't be a pushover for anyone, anymore. But I still don't expect UNC to win at ND, just put up a good fight.

[Heads22]

Offsides is when any part of the body is over the line of scrimmage. Greenways arm may have been over it, meaning it was the right call but should have been a nocall.

[Heads22]

It's close. Hand over the yard line?

[ChWRoCk2]

It's close. Hand over the yard line?

Thats a hard angle to judge it on, those calls are tough to make, you really have to have a good view of the situation to see if he crossed the line or not.

[Wedge]

Carolina is far from a cupcake for anyone now. UNC played the toughest schedule in the nation last year and went 5-6, but could have won any of the 6 losses except Louisville. UNC was leading Miami at the half 16-7, and should have been up 23-7 at the half if Pollack didn't drop a wide open touchdown pass. UNC was down 6-3 at the half against VT, and should have been up 10-6 at the very least when Jesse Holley dropped yet another wide open TD pass before the half.

 

UNC defeated Utah, NC State, Virginia, and Boston College who were all bowl teams. The administration has finally gotten serious about football, and hired Marvin Sanders two years ago after Marvin coached his Huskers secondary to lead the nation in interceptions. Kansas State and Texas A&M tried their best to hire him away as their DC's about a month ago, but he was loyal. Then yesterday UNC fans got even better news when we learned that we hired away OC/QB coach for Fresno State Frank Cignetti, who was one of the hottest OC commodities in the college ranks.

 

UNC won't be a pushover for anyone, anymore. But I still don't expect UNC to win at ND, just put up a good fight.

 

 

So to edit my earlier analysis: UNC and ISU move from the patsy range to the 2nd category.

[RockRaines]

It's close. Hand over the yard line?

maybe it was based on his shadow???

[Mplssoxfan]

So, if Notre Dame beats Air Force, Army and Navy next season, do they get to claim the Commander-in-Chief's trophy?

[Soxbadger]

It was nice to see even a half healthy Wisconsin D-Line was able to vastly improve the Baders defense.

 

If the Badgers dont lose Calhoun, they will have a legitimate shot at winning the Big 10 next year.

 

SB