Palehosefan Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Come on man. Half of those players wouldnt have gone to college if it wasnt for sports, and half of their families hadnt saved up a a dime. I'm not arguing some places have student-athletes going to no-show jobs, but it doesn't happen everywhere. As for half the students not going to college if not for sports, I will buy that for college in general, but cases like the NC State basketball team don't fit that profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Spiff @ Jan 6, 2006 -> 04:23 PM) And overly defensive fans. Tressel gets the schools he works for overly defensive fans?? I didnt even know youngstown state was like that? Crazy Edited January 6, 2006 by RockRaines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 QUOTE(Palehosefan @ Jan 6, 2006 -> 04:30 PM) I'm not arguing some places have student-athletes going to no-show jobs, but it doesn't happen everywhere. As for half the students not going to college if not for sports, I will buy that for college in general, but cases like the NC State basketball team don't fit that profile. And im telling you, even in places where you dont think it happens, it happens. I went to Miami University in Oxford Ohio. Well known as an upper middle class white haven. Not diverse, even alot of the athletes come from affluent families. Without calling anyone out specifically, I have been there when things were given to players. I saw the unfair advantages that players received. And this school has barely 50 percent of the stadium full on gameday. I can only imagine what it is like with millions of dollars at stake. Its everywhere, and frankly I have no problem with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Here are some NCAA graduation rates for basketball. If they dont graduate im pretty sure their tenure at school was primarily for sports. Average graduation rates NCAA MEN's Basketball 1993-2001 ACC, Big 10, Big 12, Big East, Pac 10, SEC 81-100 percent Stanford Penn State Northwestern 61-80 percent Providence Notre Dame Villanova St. John's North Carolina Duke Virginia Vanderbilt Michigan State Indiana Georgetown 41-60 percent Boston College Wisconsin Mississippi Washington State Purdue West Virginia Miami Rutgers Pittsburgh Wake Forest South Carolina Iowa Seton Hall California Kansas State Georgia Tech Florida Kansas Oregon Nebraska 26-40 percent Connecticut Oregon State Michigan UCLA Virginia Tech Iowa State Florida State Colorado Mississippi State Baylor Kentucky Illinois USC Auburn Missouri N.C. State Washington Texas Clemson Georgia Texas A&M Ohio State 0-25 percent Minnesota Temple Tennessee Arkansas Oklahoma State Texas Tech Syracuse Maryland Arizona Alabama Arizona State Oklahoma LSU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Things like easier grading, discounts on items, "free" stuff of course do happen everywhere. But I'm arguing that things like free substantial money gifts, free cars, papers written for you, etc DON'T happen everywhere. Most athletes do get "stipends", hell I've seen some female softball players that got higher weekend stipends then I would earn in a week. I guess we could sit here all day and argue what "cheating" is considered, I'm just saying that significant cheating doesn't happen everywhere. The funniest part to me is that I have a good friend, who played and was recruited as a WR at Tennessee, and he got even less than the female softball players I talked about. I don't have a problem with easier jobs for athletes either, or stipends, as being a student athlete pretty much takes up your possible job earnings time. It's almost impossible to be a student, football player, and have a legit job, and stay sane. I'm having a hard enough time with just two of those 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 QUOTE(Palehosefan @ Jan 6, 2006 -> 04:50 PM) Things like easier grading, discounts on items, "free" stuff of course do happen everywhere. But I'm arguing that things like free substantial money gifts, free cars, papers written for you, etc DON'T happen everywhere. Most athletes do get "stipends", hell I've seen some female softball players that got higher weekend stipends then I would earn in a week. I guess we could sit here all day and argue what "cheating" is considered, I'm just saying that significant cheating doesn't happen everywhere. The funniest part to me is that I have a good friend, who played and was recruited as a WR at Tennessee, and he got even less than the female softball players I talked about. I don't have a problem with easier jobs for athletes either, or stipends, as being a student athlete pretty much takes up your possible job earnings time. It's almost impossible to be a student, football player, and have a legit job, and stay sane. I'm having a hard enough time with just two of those 3. Oh, I dont know if you thought that I think its cheating. Im just saying that alot of that stuff goes on more than you know. And it happens everywhere. Free stuff, even grade and paper help like that is an NCAA violation. I honestly have no problem with it anyway, because I feel that the players bring in millions, and get the scholarship, which they may or may not use anyway. I mean, I own college players jerseys, but some of them dont have enough money to eat somewhere off campus without some help. My only problem is when people post comments like, oh man, they did someting terrible, why would they do that, when a violation is rumored. But their school probably does and still does the same things today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Vick is officially kicked off of Va Tech's team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 The problem with the graduate rates calculations is two-fold. 1. If a player transfers, they are automatically counted as a non-graduate. 2. If a player leaves early, they are a non-graduate. If a player doesn't graduate on time, he's counted as a non-graduate. Alot of players have to go back to school for more than 4 years to get their degree. The rest, you are right, they just weren't cut out for it. I wish I could see a list of percentage of "regular" students who don't graduate, or don't graduate on time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 My only problem is when people post comments like, oh man, they did someting terrible, why would they do that, when a violation is rumored. But their school probably does and still does the same things today. I can agree with that, there's alot of hypocrisy around. I know most UNC basketball players are driving around in new SUV's, and I don't really want to know why. But another funny thing, Raymond Felton spent his 3 years at UNC driving around in a Gremlin the entire time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 QUOTE(Palehosefan @ Jan 6, 2006 -> 04:57 PM) The problem with the graduate rates calculations is two-fold. 1. If a player transfers, they are automatically counted as a non-graduate. 2. If a player leaves early, they are a non-graduate. If a player doesn't graduate on time, he's counted as a non-graduate. Alot of players have to go back to school for more than 4 years to get their degree. The rest, you are right, they just weren't cut out for it. I wish I could see a list of percentage of "regular" students who don't graduate, or don't graduate on time. True, but guys who leave early were basically there for sports, I assure you many wouldnt have gone to college without sports. With that said, since I took an extra summer to do graduate work before graduation, I would have been a non-grad then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Jan 6, 2006 -> 04:18 PM) that is different. It didn't really cost them that much and if he sucked or was still injured they could just let him go. Now if Vick was still around in the 4th or 5th round I would say yes. But not in the first 3 rounds. Oh, I see now. Character over talent only applies to the 1st three rounds of the draft because drafting a questionable character player in the 5th round would minimize your risks. Yep, I see exactly how character fits into this equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 QUOTE(YASNY @ Jan 7, 2006 -> 04:54 AM) Oh, I see now. Character over talent only applies to the 1st three rounds of the draft because drafting a questionable character player in the 5th round would minimize your risks. Yep, I see exactly how character fits into this equation. I just don't see why any franchise would put a risk into drafting a Marcus Vick instead of a Matt Lienert if they had a top five pick. Now maybe Vick isn't a top five QB even without character issues, but even if he were a 5-25 pick, why would anyone take a QB with blatant character problems over a somewhat lesser talent that doesn't have character issues? I mean, who do you want sailing your ship? Somebody that can crack at any minute, but get you to your destination quickly if he stays steady, or somebody that surely won't snap, but get you there in a little longer time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Umm Im pretty sure Vick wont be a top 5 pick let alone a first rounder... hell he might not even go in the first day.... so comparing him with leinart is just plain dumb and a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I mean, who do you want sailing your ship? Somebody that can crack at any minute, but get you to your destination quickly if he stays steady, or somebody that surely won't snap, but get you there in a little longer time? I understand what you mean Bob, but you don't have to worry about Vick being taken in the 1st now. I see him in the same situation as Adrian McPherson last year, a guy with alot of talent, but not much going on in the head. Some team will take a flyer on him, most likely Atlanta, to see if Mike can keep him in check. I see Vick as a WR on the next level, that would be odd to see Michael throwing to Marcus, but it could happen. Watch out under-age girls in Atlanta! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Sox Josh Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 QUOTE(YASNY @ Jan 7, 2006 -> 04:54 AM) Oh, I see now. Character over talent only applies to the 1st three rounds of the draft because drafting a questionable character player in the 5th round would minimize your risks. Yep, I see exactly how character fits into this equation. Because when you draft a guy in the first 3 rounds he will probably make more money. pretty much drafting a guy in the last 4 rounds you are just filling up roster space. You won't have to pay much and he won't be expected to be anything other than a backup. If he does better great. If not it doesn't hurt you that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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