Last time I'll bring this up

[FlaCWS]

I posted a few weeks ago that I'm tired of watching the home run-fests at the Cell. I love the stadium to death, but the configuration just doesn't fit the type of team we are anymore. And I just read the post-game quotes from Garcia, which made me think of it. I really hope they move the fences or home plate to make the dimensions a little longer next year. We need to play to our strengths, not to mention entice pitchers to come here (and our own pitchers to stay!) We cannot become Coors Field East (assuming we aren't already).

 

 

"Ninety percent of us play better on the road. I don't know why. I count myself. I pitch good on the road, and I don't know why. I try to get that out of my mind and pitch better here," said Garcia (11-5), who is 2-4 at home and 9-1 on the road.

 

"It's weird when you go on the road and play better. Maybe when you're on the road and you're more relaxed and you take it easier."

 

-- Or maybe you're not pitching in a band box where every pop fly goes out...

 

Sorry, just venting.

[nitetrain8601]

You can't. You have the bullpens right there and where the bullpen's used to be, there are seats occupying that.

 

It's not going to happen. And the Cell being smaller has won us a couple of games. AJ's Walkoff comes to mind. This team is just stuck on the longball and pulling the damn ball. It's our offense that's a problem. I could tell when Joel freakin Piniero only allows 2 runs against us.

[SoxFan1]

You can't. You have the bullpens right there and where the bullpen's used to be, there are seats occupying that.

 

It's not going to happen. And the Cell being smaller has won us a couple of games. AJ's Walkoff comes to mind. This team is just stuck on the longball and pulling the damn ball. It's our offense that's a problem. I could tell when Joel freakin Piniero only allows 2 runs against us.

If only Gooch batted 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9.... :rolly

[WilliamTell]

Yeah I wish they could move the fences out just a bit, or at least what they were before they moved them in. But as already said, I don't think there is a way unless sacraficing a lot of money to get it done. I guess we'll just have to live with it.

[Soxpranos]

If only Gooch batted 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9.... :rolly

 

 

LOL

[Greg Hibbard]

guys, it's mid august, hot as hell and the balls are flying out

 

in october, the balls won't be carrying nearly as much.

[Balta1701]

I love having a ballpark that has the ball carry so well...because when your pitching staff is as good as ours, the opponents have a rough time taking advantage of it, and it should help out our offense.

 

Right now we just need to get into a few people's heads and get them to shorten their swings a bit - stop swinging for the fences and let the ball fly on its own. Other than that, the ballpark is lovely.

[fathom]

I love having a ballpark that has the ball carry so well...because when your pitching staff is as good as ours, the opponents have a rough time taking advantage of it, and it should help out our offense.

 

Right now we just need to get into a few people's heads and get them to shorten their swings a bit - stop swinging for the fences and let the ball fly on its own.  Other than that, the ballpark is lovely.

 

With having a good pitching staff like what we have, and look to have for a few years, would it be better to have a team with more boppers on it again? This is just for discussion sake, as I'm sure they'll continue to go after smallball type players. However, if we had the pitching we had this year in previous seasons, we would have been having a very successful season this year also.

[greasywheels121]

With having a good pitching staff like what we have, and look to have for a few years, would it be better to have a team with more boppers on it again?  This is just for discussion sake, as I'm sure they'll continue to go after smallball type players.  However, if we had the pitching we had this year in previous seasons, we would have been having a very successful season this year also.

 

I disagree. This current "bleak" offense is still > what we had in the past. The current offense can at least score on a consistent basis. How many times have we been shutout this year, once or twice? Our past lineups would have been shutout 39739872 times up to this point. This offense can match our previous ones in the power department, and we're a lot more succesful at doing the small things a whole too.

[Balta1701]

With having a good pitching staff like what we have, and look to have for a few years, would it be better to have a team with more boppers on it again?  This is just for discussion sake, as I'm sure they'll continue to go after smallball type players.  However, if we had the pitching we had this year in previous seasons, we would have been having a very successful season this year also.

I really don't think that going for boppers is the best strategy in that ballpark. Take a look at Cinci, or Colorado. They both have ballparks that balls fly out of, and they've both tried having lineups loaded with boppers (Griffey, Dunn, Pena, etc in Cinci, Walker, Burnitz, Castilla, Helton in Colorado last year).

 

What ends up happening is you end up spending a lot more money paying the salaries of the $9+ million a year guys, and then you end up hitting whatever the cap you've decided is the spending limit for your team. Then, you end up finding whoever else is out there (i.e. Ben Davis, Willie Harris, Scott Schoenewies) to plug the holes remaining in your lineup and your rotation.

 

If on the other hand you go in the direction we have this year...defense, productive outs, hitting, pitching, and balance, you end up eliminating those holes in the lineup by plugging in guys who actually can win games. You have a stronger bench to cover your arse when people get hurt. And you don't have black holes in your rotation that you expect will probably be losses.

 

The real key is that guys like Carlos Lee cost a ton more than guys like AJ or ARow, while ARow and AJ probably have won our team just as many games as Carlos has won for Milwaukee this year. You can win games with defense and timely hitting if you get good guys, and you can afford a lot more good guys than you can great guys.

[fathom]

I really don't think that going for boppers is the best strategy in that ballpark.  Take a look at Cinci, or Colorado.  They both have ballparks that balls fly out of, and they've both tried having lineups loaded with boppers (Griffey, Dunn, Pena, etc in Cinci, Walker, Burnitz, Castilla, Helton in Colorado last year).

 

What ends up happening is you end up spending a lot more money paying the salaries of the $9+ million a year guys, and then you end up hitting whatever the cap you've decided is the spending limit for your team.  Then, you end up finding whoever else is out there (i.e. Ben Davis, Willie Harris, Scott Schoenewies) to plug the holes remaining in your lineup and your rotation.

 

If on the other hand you go in the direction we have this year...defense, productive outs, hitting, pitching, and balance, you end up eliminating those holes in the lineup by plugging in guys who actually can win games.  You have a stronger bench to cover your arse when people get hurt.  And you don't have black holes in your rotation that you expect will probably be losses.

 

The real key is that guys like Carlos Lee cost a ton more than guys like AJ or ARow, while ARow and AJ probably have won our team just as many games as Carlos has won for Milwaukee this year.  You can win games with defense and timely hitting if you get good guys, and you can afford a lot more good guys than you can great guys.

 

You're right about the price of good hitting, and that it makes good pitching difficult. The Reds would be a playoff team if they had solid pitching. Instead, they get stuck with simply awful starting pitchers. Our starting pitching is going to end up costing a lot in the next few years, but our bullpen should be pretty cheap. I'm all for not resigning PK and trying to trade Contreras....and then adding a major offensive bat or two to the lineup.

[Balta1701]

You're right about the price of good hitting, and that it makes good pitching difficult.  The Reds would be a playoff team if they had solid pitching.  Instead, they get stuck with simply awful starting pitchers.  Our starting pitching is going to end up costing a lot in the next few years, but our bullpen should be pretty cheap.  I'm all for not resigning PK and trying to trade Contreras....and then adding a major offensive bat or two to the lineup.

Here comes the arguement I was making right before the trade deadline...

 

Yeah, keeping Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland, and maybe Freddie Garcia around for a while will cost a fortune. But this team would be insane to let either of the 1st 2 guys go for the next 5 years or more, even if they cost a ton.

 

That's where young guys come in. If we want to pay Mark the $15 mil or whatever it will take to keep him, we're going to have to save money somewhere. How do we save money? By having guys like BMac filling roles in the lineup...because while guys like him are still arbitration eligible, they cost an order of magnitude less than guys who have gotten close to the free agent market.

 

That's why unless we're the Yankees, we have to make sure we hold onto a few prospects, because if they make the big leagues and are even adequate, they make paying for their position so much cheaper.

 

Look at ARow right now...he's great on defense, he's leading our team in hitting, he'll be hitting .300 in another week or so more than likely, and he'll probably hit 15-20 home runs this year. He is now costing us about $1 mil per year. Why? Because he's not even arbitration elibile yet.

 

You bring up guys like BMac, Brian Anderson, Bobby Jenks, maybe Gio, and so on...and those guys filling positions give you the money to keep the keystone guys you have.

 

If I'm in KW's chair...I sit there and say my #1 goal is not letting MB and JG get away, because keeping those 2 around will give me something to build around as long as they're here. Then I say we need to fill in what we can. If BMac is ready to join the big club next year, then Contreras can be moved at some point (if El Duque stays and is healthy for most of the year). If Gload (or Rogowski) can be an adequate fill in for Konerko and maybe hit close to .300, then he'll be so cheap that his contract will give us freedom to keep the guys we need to keep. That's my version of moneyball.

[fathom]

Here comes the arguement I was making right before the trade deadline...

 

Yeah, keeping Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland, and maybe Freddie Garcia around for a while will cost a fortune.  But this team would be insane to let either of the 1st 2 guys go for the next 5 years or more, even if they cost a ton.

 

That's where young guys come in.  If we want to pay Mark the $15 mil or whatever it will take to keep him, we're going to have to save money somewhere.  How do we save money?  By having guys like BMac filling roles in the lineup...because while guys like him are still arbitration eligible, they cost an order of magnitude less than guys who have gotten close to the free agent market.

 

That's why unless we're the Yankees, we have to make sure we hold onto a few prospects, because if they make the big leagues and are even adequate, they make paying for their position so much cheaper.

 

Look at ARow right now...he's great on defense, he's leading our team in hitting, he'll be hitting .300 in another week or so more than likely, and he'll probably hit 15-20 home runs this year.  He is now costing us about $1 mil per year.  Why?  Because he's not even arbitration elibile yet.

 

You bring up guys like BMac, Brian Anderson, Bobby Jenks, maybe Gio, and so on...and those guys filling positions give you the money to keep the keystone guys you have.

 

If I'm in KW's chair...I sit there and say my #1 goal is not letting MB and JG get away, because keeping those 2 around will give me something to build around as long as they're here.  Then I say we need to fill in what we can.  If BMac is ready to join the big club next year, then Contreras can be moved at some point (if El Duque stays and is healthy for most of the year).  If Gload (or Rogowski) can be an adequate fill in for Konerko and maybe hit close to .300, then he'll be so cheap that his contract will give us freedom to keep the guys we need to keep.  That's my version of moneyball.

 

Rowand signed a contract extension, and I'm pretty sure he's making about 3 million a year now. Something that's really helping our team this year is that we really don't have any bad contracts. Guys like Iguchi and AJP are giving a lot of production at their positions for below market value. And as long as Crede and Uribe are on the left side of the infield, we can't have a question mark at 1b like Gload or Rogo. No matter which way you look at it, Gload is not a favorite of the organization. The Sox really should consider trading Sweeney this offseason, as he's another year of no power in the minors before his stock drops even more.

[BaMoFo]

I posted a few weeks ago that I'm tired of watching the home run-fests at the Cell. I love the stadium to death, but the configuration just doesn't fit the type of team we are anymore. And I just read the post-game quotes from Garcia, which made me think of it. I really hope they move the fences or home plate to make the dimensions a little longer next year. We need to play to our strengths, not to mention entice pitchers to come here (and our own pitchers to stay!) We cannot become Coors Field East (assuming we aren't already).

"Ninety percent of us play better on the road. I don't know why. I count myself. I pitch good on the road, and I don't know why. I try to get that out of my mind and pitch better here," said Garcia (11-5), who is 2-4 at home and 9-1 on the road.

 

"It's weird when you go on the road and play better. Maybe when you're on the road and you're more relaxed and you take it easier."

 

-- Or maybe you're not pitching in a band box where every pop fly goes out...

 

Sorry, just venting.

Guys, this team is built for Busch stadium as it was in the 80's. Think of all the triples we'd be getting not to mention runners moving from 1st to 3rd on a single. But as every has already mentioned this is the ballpark we're stuck with. There's definitely no room to move the fences back, and I don't think they'd remove seats to move home plate.

[GoodAsGould]

In years past we always played significantly better at home than on the road.... So unless this starts becoming a problem every season I dont consider it a problem really.

 

As far as pitchers not coming here, well even with our park we have one of the best rotation's in baseball and I dont think any other team has a 1-2-3 punch that can rival us. Hell if El Duque works his post-season magic than we should be really feared.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

Nobody really mentions this when the idea of home plate being moved back come sup but while homers are a bit harder, you lose foul ground for pop-ups. That might neutralize runs saved by the longball