elrockinMT Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I don't know much about wally Backman as a manager. I know his in AA and Leyva is our AAA manager correct? Why do folks think Wally Backman should be cosidered as our next skipper? Is it too early to think about replacing Jerry Manuel? If we accept that it's the player's who need to produce, as even the players say (most notably Valentin and Konerko) what do we need to do to charge them up? If they aren't hitting to the opposite field as Manuel and Ward have noted and are flat, which anyone can see, who is responsible for that? Is it a coaching chnage rather than a mangerial change that we need? I am interested in what Sox fans think about these questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I know the way I look at it is, how many coaching changes have we had since the 2000 season? What are they doing for us now? The only one that seems to be working is pitching coach Don Cooper. We are still getting runners thrown out at home by a mile, we are not getting any kind of offense, the bullpen has been erratic at best. I think it is time to work up the ladder a little farther. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Why do folks think Wally Backman should be cosidered as our next skipper? Is it too early to think about replacing Jerry Manuel? Because he is the opposite of Manuel. He isn't passive and will actually stand up for his players when HR's are called foul and when throws beat the runners to first but the umpire calls the runners safe TWICE in the same game (vs Oakland on 04/30). And no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 A change of managers will often shake up the team. Last year Tony Pena was called in at KC. I don't know the stats and whether or not they started winning right away, but they did seem to hustle more. The Sox need a fire under their butts. Now, if they really are a baaaaad team, it won't make much difference (see Detroit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 The Sox are a good team with a bad manager. In addition to what CK said, Backman would also use steals and bunts to help us gain an advantage. Last year Olivo had like 15 steals under him. Maybe he wouldnt get that many up here but he would still get like 8-10 and that makes a big difference. Would you like to know how many hes on pace for this year? Zero. If Im correct only Daubach, Maggs and DJ have stolen so far this year. That is unnacceptable. Here are two different innings under two different managers. Manager number one -Player A singles. -Player B doubles, player A goes to third. -Player C strikes out. -Player D grounds out to third. -Player E flies out to end the inning. So sometimes you get lucky with this guy and get a sac fly, or your team gets five hits and four runs, or you get a homerun. Manager number two -Player A singles. -Player A steals second. -Player B sac bunts him to third. -Player C hits a sac fly and player A scores. And with this manager you can still get homeruns and slugfest innings just like with the other one. But here, you can get one hit, and still get one run. Without bunts and steals, you need atleast two hits, unless you get a triple and a sac fly but that isnt the most common scenario. Either way, manager two is definitely going to get you more runs. Manager one is Manuel, number two is Backman... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 The Sox are a good team with a bad manager. In addition to what CK said, Backman would also use steals and bunts to help us gain an advantage. Last year Olivo had like 15 steals under him. Maybe he wouldnt get that many up here but he would still get like 8-10 and that makes a big difference. Would you like to know how many hes on pace for this year? Zero. If Im correct only Daubach, Maggs and DJ have stolen so far this year. That is unnacceptable. Here are two different innings under two different managers. Manager number one -Player A singles. -Player B doubles, player A goes to third. -Player C strikes out. -Player D grounds out to third. -Player E flies out to end the inning. So sometimes you get lucky with this guy and get a sac fly, or your team gets five hits and four runs, or you get a homerun. Manager number two -Player A singles. -Player A steals second. -Player B sac bunts him to third. -Player C hits a sac fly and player A scores. And with this manager you can still get homeruns and slugfest innings just like with the other one. But here, you can get one hit, and still get one run. Without bunts and steals, you need atleast two hits, unless you get a triple and a sac fly but that isnt the most common scenario. Either way, manager two is definitely going to get you more runs. Manager one is Manuel, number two is Backman... Solid analysis right there man I am a fan of bunting more than we have been to move runners over, and running in some favorable spots that we haven't been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 The players normally are the ones failing. You don't fire the players though. You fire the manager. I've said this before....I don't necessarily want a manager that is always yelling and is angrier than hell...like Lou Piniella. I want a manager that makes good decisions, plays small ball, stands up for his players, argues when necessary, and helps get the team motivated. Manuel rarely does the prevously noted....he has stood up for his players...has made some good decisions....has played some small ball...does argue occassionally....but he can't get the team motivated, and he doesn't do the things he does do right enough. He also micromanages too much...and is too tinker-y. I'd take Valentine or Backman....either would be fine my me. I just want Manuel out of here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Olivo had 29 steals last year under Backman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 The players normally are the ones failing. You don't fire the players though. You fire the manager. I've said this before....I don't necessarily want a manager that is always yelling and is angrier than hell...like Lou Piniella. I want a manager that makes good decisions, plays small ball, stands up for his players, argues when necessary, and helps get the team motivated. Manuel rarely does the prevously noted....he has stood up for his players...has made some good decisions....has played some small ball...does argue occassionally....but he can't get the team motivated, and he doesn't do the things he does do right enough. He also micromanages too much...and is too tinker-y. I'd take Valentine or Backman....either would be fine my me. I just want Manuel out of here. I'm with ya wsf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Firing JM would sure be nice. But I still don't think we have the right type of players that can get fired up. We still have too many slow runners, clubhouse troublemakers, and selfish hitters on the team. At some point I believe we'll just need start letting our current players go and start all over again with guys that have heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Thank you KT. And I agree wsf. I dont want some angry nutcase but I want him to stand up for his players. Like on Joe Credes foul homerun, Manuel should have argued that one to his ejection. But then one thats a non crucial play in the first inning like Guzmans cheap IF single he shouldnt have gone out on that one. Ya got to know when to take it to the ejection, and when to just go out and tell the ump he screwed up. And Cerb, I guess thats even better. So maybe under someone like Backman Olivo could get like 15-20 steals. But well never know with Manuel in charge... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Thank you KT. And I agree wsf. I dont want some angry nutcase but I want him to stand up for his players. Like on Joe Credes foul homerun, Manuel should have argued that one to his ejection. But then one thats a non crucial play in the first inning like Guzmans cheap IF single he shouldnt have gone out on that one. Ya got to know when to take it to the ejection, and when to just go out and tell the ump he screwed up. And Cerb, I guess thats even better. So maybe under someone like Backman Olivo could get like 15-20 steals. But well never know with Manuel in charge... Don't get me wrong....I would undoubtedly take a nutcase like that. Sometimes all it takes is a firey guy like Lou Piniella to get a team fired up. Point blank...I want a guy that is a good manager. Also....I think Manuel arguing to his ejection was not necessarily a bad thing against the Twins. Guzman was clearly out, and when an ump makes a call that poorly, you have to argue. You can't just sit on your ass and let a play that obvious go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Thank you KT. And I agree wsf. I dont want some angry nutcase but I want him to stand up for his players. Like on Joe Credes foul homerun, Manuel should have argued that one to his ejection. But then one thats a non crucial play in the first inning like Guzmans cheap IF single he shouldnt have gone out on that one. Ya got to know when to take it to the ejection, and when to just go out and tell the ump he screwed up. And Cerb, I guess thats even better. So maybe under someone like Backman Olivo could get like 15-20 steals. But well never know with Manuel in charge... Don't get me wrong....I would undoubtedly take a nutcase like that. Sometimes all it takes is a firey guy like Lou Piniella to get a team fired up. Point blank...I want a guy that is a good manager. Also....I think Manuel arguing to his ejection was not necessarily a bad thing against the Twins. Guzman was clearly out, and when an ump makes a call that poorly, you have to argue. You can't just sit on your ass and let a play that obvious go. Yeah, youre right. But when should a manager argue and when should he not? He only gets one ejection a game, if he uses it on some meaningless poor call in the first, hes not gonna be there for the critical poor call in the eighth. And Guzman was out so I am kinda glad he argued. But Loaiza shut em down so Guzman still didnt score. The foul homer, we lost two runs on that and Manuel didnt even argue. Thats where I think you should really come out shoutin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Thank you KT. And I agree wsf. I dont want some angry nutcase but I want him to stand up for his players. Like on Joe Credes foul homerun, Manuel should have argued that one to his ejection. But then one thats a non crucial play in the first inning like Guzmans cheap IF single he shouldnt have gone out on that one. Ya got to know when to take it to the ejection, and when to just go out and tell the ump he screwed up. And Cerb, I guess thats even better. So maybe under someone like Backman Olivo could get like 15-20 steals. But well never know with Manuel in charge... Don't get me wrong....I would undoubtedly take a nutcase like that. Sometimes all it takes is a firey guy like Lou Piniella to get a team fired up. Point blank...I want a guy that is a good manager. Also....I think Manuel arguing to his ejection was not necessarily a bad thing against the Twins. Guzman was clearly out, and when an ump makes a call that poorly, you have to argue. You can't just sit on your ass and let a play that obvious go. Yeah, youre right. But when should a manager argue and when should he not? He only gets one ejection a game, if he uses it on some meaningless poor call in the first, hes not gonna be there for the critical poor call in the eighth. And Guzman was out so I am kinda glad he argued. But Loaiza shut em down so Guzman still didnt score. The foul homer, we lost two runs on that and Manuel didnt even argue. Thats where I think you should really come out shoutin... Managers can still call the game....they probably are in the locker room watching the game on TV or are in the hallways making the calls...something. They aren't in the dugout...but are very close. You argue when there is a bad call. You find out why he made the call and you argue your case. After everything is settled...you go sit down, whether it be in the locker room or in the dugout...depending on what the ump does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 I know the way I look at it is, how many coaching changes have we had since the 2000 season? What are they doing for us now? The only one that seems to be working is pitching coach Don Cooper. We are still getting runners thrown out at home by a mile, we are not getting any kind of offense, the bullpen has been erratic at best. I think it is time to work up the ladder a little farther. taking out the GM far enough up the ladder? I think so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 I am not a fan of the sacrifice bunt. I hate giving up that out. You only get 27 a game. Hit behind the runner, run and hit, hit and run, steal, whatever to get him moved over, but at least you have a chance of the ball actually going through for a hit. Of course, I'm talking about the sacrific bunt in the AL. With a pitcher at bat, I'd bunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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