Chisoxfn Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 hindsight 20/20. I said I wanted Jose Cruz in December and January...when he was still a FA. Hindsight is 20-20....but IMO, it was a win-win situation. Witesoxfan and I were the big Jose Cruz backers when he was still out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Can't wait till June when he cones home.. I hope he beats the s*** out of us ala Cam. Um... Why would you root for a former player to beat us? That's kinda silly Steff. It's not like we sold Ray out. We didn't force him to stay and then insult him with a low-ball offer. We traded him to a contending team (Oakland), and now he's on another contending team (San Fran) making about $8M a year. I liked Ray, and I wish him success, but I don't understand the love so many of you show him. He was a good 2B, but he's no HOF'er. Maybe I'd have to live in Chicago to understand it, I don't know. All I know is we've got a definite HOF'er in our lineup now, and it seems that everyone hates him. I don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Um... Why would you root for a former player to beat us? That's kinda silly Steff. It's not like we sold Ray out. We didn't force him to stay and then insult him with a low-ball offer. We traded him to a contending team (Oakland), and now he's on another contending team (San Fran) making about $8M a year. I liked Ray, and I wish him success, but I don't understand the love so many of you show him. He was a good 2B, but he's no HOF'er. Maybe I'd have to live in Chicago to understand it, I don't know. All I know is we've got a definite HOF'er in our lineup now, and it seems that everyone hates him. I don't get it. Why is it silly for me to want Ray to do well clujer...?? I didn't say I wanted the Sox to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Um... Why would you root for a former player to beat us? That's kinda silly Steff. It's not like we sold Ray out. We didn't force him to stay and then insult him with a low-ball offer. We traded him to a contending team (Oakland), and now he's on another contending team (San Fran) making about $8M a year. I liked Ray, and I wish him success, but I don't understand the love so many of you show him. He was a good 2B, but he's no HOF'er. Maybe I'd have to live in Chicago to understand it, I don't know. All I know is we've got a definite HOF'er in our lineup now, and it seems that everyone hates him. I don't get it. Why is it silly for me to want Ray to do well clujer...?? I didn't say I wanted the Sox to lose. Well, you said that you hope he "beats the s*** out of us ala Cam". Last time I checked, everytime we play Seattle and Cameron has a big game, we get killed. And if we let Ray Ray go wild on us and get on base and drive in runs ahead of Barry, I don't think there's much doubt what the outcome will be. I want Ray to do well too -- just not when he's playing against us. Hopefully he'll get a nice ovation when he returns to his old stomping grounds. I'm sure he will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Um... Why would you root for a former player to beat us? That's kinda silly Steff. It's not like we sold Ray out. We didn't force him to stay and then insult him with a low-ball offer. We traded him to a contending team (Oakland), and now he's on another contending team (San Fran) making about $8M a year. I liked Ray, and I wish him success, but I don't understand the love so many of you show him. He was a good 2B, but he's no HOF'er. Maybe I'd have to live in Chicago to understand it, I don't know. All I know is we've got a definite HOF'er in our lineup now, and it seems that everyone hates him. I don't get it. Why is it silly for me to want Ray to do well clujer...?? I didn't say I wanted the Sox to lose. Well, you said that you hope he "beats the s*** out of us ala Cam". Last time I checked, everytime we play Seattle and Cameron has a big game, we get killed. And if we let Ray Ray go wild on us and get on base and drive in runs ahead of Barry, I don't think there's much doubt what the outcome will be. I want Ray to do well too -- just not when he's playing against us. Hopefully he'll get a nice ovation when he returns to his old stomping grounds. I'm sure he will. Hmmmm... naa. I'm stickin with the initial plan. Hope he hits for the cycle. We just have to score more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted May 5, 2003 Author Share Posted May 5, 2003 How much is Ray getting? One post said $ 8 Million. Wow, I had no idea. I thought he took a pay cut from the $5 Million we paid him last year.. $8 M is way too much. I would prefer DJ, too, at those numbers. When I started this thread, I was kind of just making a comment on his high batting average. We all know it's not going to stay up there at .330. It's just that the Sox are so desperate for some offense, the BA just jumped out at me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 hindsight 20/20. I said I wanted Jose Cruz in December and January...when he was still a FA. Hindsight is 20-20....but IMO, it was a win-win situation. Witesoxfan and I were the big Jose Cruz backers when he was still out there. If i was around then, i would have been on the cruz bandwagon. I was high on him enough i made sure to get him in all 3 of my NL only leagues of which the drafts were in feb and march Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 last year..when we traded durham finished that season..i went on strike and didnt even watch another game except for a few innings here or there...i was going to boycott comiskey all year but got caught up in the colon hype...should have went with my first instincts yeah and all we got in return was John "f***ing" Adkins. Dammit Kenny, stop trading with Billy Bean. CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 durham did not sign for 8 million dollars..dont know where that number came from..here is his contract staus with san fran 2003: $4.0M (+$3.6M signing bonus) 2004: $6.0M 2005: $6.5M 2006: Player option $7.0M 6 to 7 mill a year is about right for what durham brings to the table... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 How much is Ray getting? One post said $ 8 Million. Wow, I had no idea. I thought he took a pay cut from the $5 Million we paid him last year.. $8 M is way too much. I would prefer DJ, too, at those numbers. When I started this thread, I was kind of just making a comment on his high batting average. We all know it's not going to stay up there at .330. It's just that the Sox are so desperate for some offense, the BA just jumped out at me. I high-balled it a bit. He's making $5.2M this year, but his contract is for 3 years, $20.1M, so nearly $7M per year. I still think that's too much for Ray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 6 to 7 mill a year is about right for what durham brings to the table... You're missing a crucial caveat-- "....unless you are a team with no fans, run by a notorious tightwad and his investinment group" or some variation thereof. Remember Thomas was making 10 Million then and Foulke and his 6 million was also aboard. That was 11 million difference right there WIHTOUT accounting for Colon and his 8.5 Mill, Konerko and his 7 Mill and future possiblity of getting Lee a raise and Magglio 14 Mill after 2003 season to say nothing of Buerhle's contract ordeal....lots and lots of dough if you count it all and weight against Ray-s' real contribution. The only bad part is that Kenny Williams didn't insist on getting a struggling Adam Piatt instead of a nobody like Adkins. That was really bad, but with emergence of DJ I got over it pretty quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 We just have to score more. What team are you watching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 What team are you watching? Ahhh young grasshopper.. the glass is half full in my eyes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 You're missing a crucial caveat-- "....unless you are a team with no fans, run by a notorious tightwad and his investinment group" or some variation thereof. Remember Thomas was making 10 Million then and Foulke and his 6 million was also aboard. That was 11 million difference right there WIHTOUT accounting for Colon and his 8.5 Mill, Konerko and his 7 Mill and future possiblity of getting Lee a raise and Magglio 14 Mill after 2003 season to say nothing of Buerhle's contract ordeal....lots and lots of dough if you count it all and weight against Ray-s' real contribution. The only bad part is that Kenny Williams didn't insist on getting a struggling Adam Piatt instead of a nobody like Adkins. That was really bad, but with emergence of DJ I got over it pretty quick. here is what we should have done if money was the big issue with durham...dumped konerko and lee , replaced them with rios and daubach...kept durham and foulke , thus nullyfing the botch trade...if we dont trade for jimenez we also haver alex fernandez..atleast one legit CF prospect... we would have a better team and the payroll would be less than it is now... you dont give up one of the top 2nd baseman in baseball to keeop an average first baseman and a piss poor LF..thats crazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafacosta Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 I don't think that 5)Ray is one of the best 2B in baseball. 1)Soriano, 2)Boone, 3)Kent, 4)Jose Vidro, 6)Luis Castillo. I would prefer sign Kent and trade Konerko for a prospect to make room for Jeff Kent's salary.Trade PK for Vidro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Saying Alex Fernandez is a legit CF prospect is a major stretch. The Sox got him in the minor league phase of the Rule V, from the Mariners I believe. He's got 4 walks in 72 AB's in AA so far, and he's repeating AA. He's also known for having weak plate discipline and a weak arm. I know there's a "trash Jimenez" thing going on here, but let's be realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Ahhh young grasshopper.. the glass is half full in my eyes... oh, call me young again - I enjoyed that so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafacosta Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 thrash Jimenez???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 here is what we should have done if money was the big issue with durham...dumped konerko and lee , replaced them with rios and daubach...kept durham and foulke , thus nullyfing the botch trade...if we dont trade for jimenez we also haver alex fernandez..atleast one legit CF prospect... 1. What part of "DJ is as good as Ray Durham and has a higher ceiling" is not clear? 2. Lee and Konerko are here based on their potential (both have tools to be stars), not only their contribution. They will break out, just you wait meanwhile RayRay is a declining speedster, a poor man's Jenny Lofton who can't field and isn't very clutch. 3. Alex Fernandex is a AA s***. Forget about him. He can't play CF all that good. 4. How much do you think 30yo Daubach would want if he puts Konerko-like numbers? That's right- 6-8 million. I don't get this love for Ray-Ray, I really don't. Good player, not great and the team is better now, with Colon and DJ, thankyouvery much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 I don't think that 5)Ray is one of the best 2B in baseball. 1)Soriano, 2)Boone, 3)Kent, 4)Jose Vidro, 6)Luis Castillo. I would prefer sign Kent and trade Konerko for a prospect to make room for Jeff Kent's salary.Trade PK for Vidro. We won't get Vidro for Konerko...not in a thousand years. And Boone is most definately not the second best 2Bman in the game....Soriano, Kent, and Vidro are the top 3 IMO...and Durham is right around there. He's too streaky for me....and he strikes out too much. He is top 5 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafacosta Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Bret Boone is a clutch hitter and play defense like Ray or even better... 30 HR, 100 RBIs for Boone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Steroids will do wonders I tell ya. Just ask old Booney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafacosta Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 The TigersbeatJason Johnson and the O's inBaltimore. JJ 6 IP, 6 Hits, 4 ER, 3 BB, 6 Ks. Our offense is sick man... they need a kick in their balls. 6-1 score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafacosta Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 I don't care if my players take steroids... if they take it and make my team a winner... take more steroids.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Saying Alex Fernandez is a legit CF prospect is a major stretch. The Sox got him in the minor league phase of the Rule V, from the Mariners I believe. He's got 4 walks in 72 AB's in AA so far, and he's repeating AA. He's also known for having weak plate discipline and a weak arm. I know there's a "trash Jimenez" thing going on here, but let's be realistic. since we wont call up borchard, fernandez is a better choice than rowand or harris in CF...eventhough he's an AA in san deigo..really shows how far this organization has fallen under the leadership of KW.. you draft these kids out of the dominican at 15 , so them being a rule 5 doesnt mean they are failures....its not like he his 27 , fernandez is 21 years old..he couldnt possibly any worse at the plate than rowand or any worse in the field than harris...thats beside the point..we had miles , hummel , and harris as 2nd prospects..we had fernandez as the only legit CF type (rowand and borchard are more corner outfielder types)...fernandez might never develop , who knows??...but its stupid imo to trade off the only prospect thats close to being ready at the CF position to gain a guy at a position where you already have 3 guys coming up.... atleast fernandez has some speed..some skills...is there a slower 2nd baseman in all of baseball????..whoever coined jimenez as the "latin paul konerko" regaurding his speed hit it right on the head.... CF is killing this team right now...if jimenez's career ended tomorrow we got 2 guys we could stick at 2nd and probably not miss a beat and rafacosta..boone better than durham??..please... he had one steriod induced career year..his career numbers dont come close to matching durham's...durham's OPS is still 20 points higher (despite boone now becoming the incredible hulk) than boone's and ray steals 25 -30 bases a season.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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