Mulder for Haren, Barton, and Calero

[3E8]

With the major success Haren has been having lately (9-0 in last 14 starts), I started to revisit this trade.

 

Haren has a better WHIP than Mulder, less hits, more strikeouts, fewer walks, lower BAA, and he has the disadvantage of pitching in the American League. Mulder has a lower ERA, but by less than 30 points. Mulder also has 3 more wins, but Haren also is being paid about 1/20th the amount that Mulder is. Haren will be under the A's control for a long time while Mulder I believe will only be through next year.

 

The A's also got minor league 1B Daric Barton. That kid is absolutely tearing up the minors, while posting over a .900 OPS in high-A ball and about an .850 OPS so far in AA ball. He turns just 20 years old in a week.

 

The piece that's is keeping this from being a super-blowout is Kiko Calero. He's being paid the league minimum and isn't having the kind of year he did in 2004, which I believe was due to injury for which he missed some time. Last year as a reliever he had an ERA under 3, BAA under 200, and WHIP under 1. Ever since coming back he's been improving his stats.

 

I don't like Beane, but this definitely seems like a fairly one-sided trade to me.

[nitetrain8601]

I told people when the deal was made that it was lopsided because when Barton was traded he was considered the best catching prospect in the league. Haren was a guy they were grooming and was I think the Cardinals #1 guy pitching wise for the future and Calero was pretty good all last season.

[southsider2k5]

Dan Haren is best friends with Soxtalk's own Jim Bullard, and I remember Jim telling us exactly how good Haren was going to be, not to mention the payroll savings that the A's got, plus the certianty of knowing how long Haren will be with Oakland, and you have got to call this a win-win trade at worst, and if Mulder leaves St Louis soon, it is a difinate win for the A's.

[Balta1701]

See...this trade is as much proof as you can get as to why you shouldn't hold onto guys in the final year of their contract (ahem...Ordonez, Lee, 1 done right, 1 not). Because when you get something for them...that something is usually around for a while and does very well

[Chisoxfn]

Dan Haren is best friends with Soxtalk's own Jim Bullard, and I remember Jim telling us exactly how good Haren was going to be, not to mention the payroll savings that the A's got, plus the certianty of knowing how long Haren will be with Oakland, and you have got to call this a win-win trade at worst, and if Mulder leaves St Louis soon, it is a difinate win for the A's.

Ya, Bull was mentioning that to me over the off-season. Plus he picked him up on his fantasy league team or at least I thought he did.

[Rowand44]

This trade was very lopsided in favor of the A's. The Huddy trade was lopsided in favor of the Braves.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

THis trade can't be fairly evaluated until the playoffs becaus the Cardinals knew they could win the division without Mulder, but thought they needed him to win a championship. They still may be right.

[Rowand44]

By the way, I wanted to mention that I was completely wrong about Haren, I thought at best he was going to be an average major league starter.

[3E8]

THis trade can't be fairly evaluated until the playoffs becaus the Cardinals knew they could win the division without Mulder, but thought they needed him to win a championship. They still may be right.

I see what you are getting at. Haren was too much of a risk before the season to count on helping take a team deep into the postseason, while Mulder's track record and postseason experience was more of a sure bet. I suppose if they win it all with the help of Mulder they will never think twice about this trade.

 

I just think it is ironic how the Cardinals may have swapped one pitcher for another who is actually equal in talent, while at the same time losing their best non-pitching prospect and a bullpen arm. All while taking on $5M more in salary.

[Balta1701]

I just think it is ironic how the Cardinals may have swapped one pitcher for another who is actually equal in talent, while at the same time losing their best non-pitching prospect and a bullpen arm.  All while taking on $5M more in salary.

Jason Schmidt for Brandon McCarthy, Damaso Marte, and Brian Anderson.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

YEah no doubt that Haren has been better than I thought ( I thought maybe he'd have a peak like this but it wouldn't be near this soon). Barton is overrated but will still be a really good hitter, no doubt about that. Calero, Cruz and Meyer have stunk to varying degrees (from decent to much worse) just showing you never know with young pitchers. Meyer was vastly overrated to begin with. He got a lot of pub after the trade because baseball experts often slurp Beane and kind of overstated him a bit.

[CWSGuy406]

Jason Schmidt for Brandon McCarthy, Damaso Marte, and Brian Anderson.

 

That's not that great of a comparison, really.

 

a.)I doubt that McCarthy could have done this year what Haren has done for the Athletics. 4.06 ERA, 152 + IP in 24 starts. I doubt Beane makes the trade if he thinks/thought that the kid wasn't ready to pitch in the big leagues. He needed at least one of Meyer/Haren to be ready to start in their rotation, he got that. Dan Meyer has been hurt this year. He's pitched about 70 innings at Sacramento.

 

b.)Brian Anderson is nowhere near the prospect that Barton is. In 185 ABs, Anderson posted a .765 OPS at AA. Barton is currently posting an .887 OPS at AA in 106 ABs. Obviously, that's a small sample size -- and, I also realize that Anderson played in an extremely s***ty hitter's park (while I'm not aware of what Midland is considered), but that a .120 point difference.

 

Oakland wasn't going to be able to resign Hudson in their situation, especially now that they signed Kotsay for about eight million for each of two years. That trade really hinges on how Meyer does. And, in his limited time at AAA, he hasn't done too well.

[The Critic]

THis trade can't be fairly evaluated until the playoffs because the Cardinals knew they could win the division without Mulder, but thought they needed him to win a championship. They still may be right.

 

^ this.

 

This is a case of the Cardinals trading later for now. They felt that they need a veteran arm to take that last step, and they were willing to (over)pay.

I'm guessing that they feel they have similar prospects coming up through their system and that they were dealing from a point of strength. Time will tell if they're right.

 

Beane is doing what he always does, and what he has to do financially. He sells higher-priced proven talent for less expensive prospects that his staff has done their homework on evaluating.

 

Seems to me like both sides got what they were looking for, and that makes it a good trade for both teams.

[DBAHO]

This trade was very lopsided in favor of the A's.  The Huddy trade was lopsided in favor of the Braves.

Just imagine if they kept Hudson what their rotation would look like right now;

 

Hudson

Harden

Zito

Haren

Blanton

[Punch and Judy Garland]

Was Daric Barton goign to supplant Pujols at first? Uh, no. Anthony Reyes and Wainwright are both good pitching prospects but St. Louis is set there for the moment so you are right about them trading from strength. Much like Carlos for Podz, I think both sides are pleased with this deal

[3E8]

Haren the tough luck loser tonight. 9 IP, 3 H, 1 ER.

[gosox41]

See...this trade is as much proof as you can get as to why you shouldn't hold onto guys in the final year of their contract (ahem...Ordonez, Lee, 1 done right, 1 not).  Because when you get something for them...that something is usually around for a while and does very well

 

 

 

Definitely a good idea to follow the old adage about trading a guy a year too early then a year too late (or in this case a year too late meaning letting him walk away as a FA.)

 

 

 

Bob

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Aug 8, 2005 -> 03:02 PM)

See...this trade is as much proof as you can get as to why you shouldn't hold onto guys in the final year of their contract (ahem...Ordonez, Lee, 1 done right, 1 not).  Because when you get something for them...that something is usually around for a while and does very well

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which move do you think was not done "right?" Magglio?

KW tried to trade Maggs for Nomar. Boston f***ed up.

KW tried to trade Maggs for Andruw Jones. Atlanta heated up and won the division.

[Balta1701]

Which move do you think was not done "right?"  Magglio?

KW tried to trade Maggs for Nomar.  Boston f***ed up.

KW tried to trade Maggs for Andruw Jones.  Atlanta heated up and won the division.

I think there was an added element in the Jones deal...KW wanted Russ Ortiz also, and he was at the time the Braves best starting pitcher. That plus Ordonez was hurt, and the Braves would have been crazy to pull the trigger for a guy who was hurt.

 

I personally wish KW had traded him before last season started, just so we could have gotten something for him. If the Nomar deal wasn't there, then there had to be someone else who was willing to grab a rent-a-bat. Houston, or LA, for example. I think he was holding out hope of Magglio Re-signing, so he didn't push as hard on a trade as say Billy Beane might have done.

[3E8]

Haren win shares = 15

Calero win shares = 5

 

 

Mulder win shares = 12

 

 

Net win shares lost = 8

Net salary added in '05 = $5,896,500

 

WHOOPS!

[Rowand44]

Haren win shares = 15

Calero win shares = 5

Mulder win shares = 12

Net win shares lost = 8

Net salary added in '05 = $5,896,500

 

WHOOPS!

I'm sure Jocketty cares so much about win shares.

[3E8]

I'm sure Jocketty cares so much about win shares.

Huh?

 

It's just a fun little tidbit for anybody who appreciates Sabermetrics.

[Rowand44]

Huh?

 

It's just a fun little tidbit for anybody who appreciates Sabermetrics.

I understand your point and I agree that it wasn't a good trade for the cards, I'm just not much of a fan of win shares, didn't mean to sound like a jerk though, sorry if I did.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

Well Oakland was at hoem for the playoffs and Daric Barton had zero major league hits this year so I fail to see how it was lopsided yet.

[3E8]

Well Oakland was at hoem for the playoffs and Daric Barton had zero major league hits this year so I fail to see how it was lopsided yet.

Come on Punch, take off the Cardinal shaded glasses.

 

I just showed above that St. Louis paid 10x more than what they needed to for lower production. And I see what you're saying about Barton, but he was tearing up AA at 19 years of age. Barring career ending injury or something, this trade will be looked on as laughibly lopsided in the future, even though it went undoubtedly in the A's favor for year one.

 

Plus, I don't understand why Oakland has to make the playoffs when considering their value gained in this trade. A strong team can make a s***ty trade and still make the playoffs while a decent team can make a great trade and miss the postseason. Doesn't make the stronger team winner of the transaction in my mind.